SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why does Volvo make the R's stock dp so small? Is the R designed to run hot from the stock dp being so small? Does the Turbo run better when there is so much back pressure.<p>I have my car chipped already by evolve. I understand there are always risks of the car breaking by modding it with a chip and a dp. Is getting a 3'5 dp reliable? Would I really gain that much performance with an upgraded dp?<p>What kindove proccess is done when removing the stock dp and putting an upgraded one? I know there is somthing to do the the bolts on the turbo. I once read that you have to heat them up with a blow torch. If this is true are they still safe to put back on once this proccess is done? Or would they not be as strong?<p>Thanks and if there is more info on all this please feel free to tell me
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,831 Posts
you need to make sure your ECU tuner can support a bigger downpipe, because a bigger DP = faster spooling which can cause boost spikes and therefore detonation if you don't have a properly mapped fuel table.<p>good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts
Re: Important DP questions. Please educate me. (Stoobey)

The DP will make your chipped car feel much more driveable, spool up is faster and spool down is less severe. I think you'll like your car and the ECU tune much more with the DP. Some people here will say there is no proof of power gains, etc. but I think it has more to do with driveability for chipped cars.<p>The installation is quite a straitforward, bolt on process. And you can go back to the stock DP. Just take it to a good exhaust shop to do the job.<p>DownPipes will work fine with most ECU tunes in the market, the one I now of that does not support it is the BSR program (found in the PCC softloader). And IPD (TME) has an option for DownPiped cars as well, both software suppliers are Swedish. The problem comes with highly tunned ECU programs that look for important fuel savings, and therefore the lean situation with DP. I do not think the Evolve-Superchip ECU has that issue. Anyway you may want to call Evolve first and ask about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
why does volvo put such a small dp on the car if a bigger one will aloow the car to run better, cooler, faster spooling, more power delivery?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,121 Posts
Re: (Stoobey)

Because they don't know how to tune cars, especially high-performance ones. <p>Take a looks at BMW's M3 -- it's almost perfectly tuned from the factory. You have to spend A LOT of money to get any noticeable performance gains from that car because the manufacturer took the time to optimize most everything from the get-go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
506 Posts
Re: (Stoobey)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Stoobey</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why does volvo put such a small dp on the car if a bigger one will aloow the car to run better, cooler, faster spooling, more power delivery?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Most every car out there has things that can/should be improved upon... why didn't volvo give the car a better tune? Why is the stock exhaust so sucky? Springs? Intercooler, etc, etc, etc.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,831 Posts
probably due to their limited experience in the performance world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,714 Posts
Re: (phuz)

Because they spent more time tuning our interior than BMW did with the M3's! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Does this can of worms really need to be opened <B>AGAIN</B>? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0">
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,831 Posts
Re: (I Roll)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>I Roll</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because they spent more time tuning our interior than BMW did with the M3's! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>agreed!<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>I Roll</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Does this can of worms really need to be opened <B>AGAIN</B>? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>nope...nuff said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
Re: (Stoobey)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Stoobey</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why does volvo put such a small dp on the car if a bigger one will aloow the car to run better, cooler, faster spooling, more power delivery?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Most of the time, "packaging" is the answer to that question. Sometimes, "cost effectiveness" is the answer.<p>The manufacturer has strict design rules for the engineers to assure that there will never be contact between pipe and body even if all of the tolerances stack up unfavorably. They also want a guarantee that the pipe won't rattle against anything ever even if bouncing across railroad tracks or the like. In other words, they must trade away that last little bit of performance to avoid rattles and bangs. <p>Also, I think the engine is meeting it's horsepower and torque targets already, so even if a DP increased hp, they'd just dial back the boost to get it back to target anyway.<p>Also consider the fact that those pipes are quite pricey. Volvo may have considered a bigger pipe but decided it wasn't enough bang for the buck (or kick for the krohner, whatever).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,526 Posts
Re:

Its just my opinion, but all of the "lack of tuning" experience comments are simply WRONG.<p>Volvo did it for a dozen reasons. They probably wanted to engineer a car for most Volvo owners, not for most enthusiast car drivers. The smaller DP was also probably marginally cheaper, and, they probably wanted to run all of the car's components well within tolerances to satisfy the bean counters when it comes to dealing with warranty claims, etc.<p>The reason it costs so much to make an M3 go faster is because its naturally aspirated. Period. A chip is most effective when it has something (like a turbo) that it can exploit for more power. Steve Dinan can find another 30+ horses from the current M3 <b>before</b> supercharging it. An ECU tune to a turbo won't yield much more than that from most cars.<p>You can even look to VAG's turbo cars for examples of where aftermarket companies have inexpensively tuned other (non-Volvo) cars to produce GOBS more power than the OEM car. And, anyone who suggests that Audi doesn't have racing experience is either dead or dumb.<p>Oh, and by the way, any idea what an APR chip will do to a stock 415hp 996 Turbo? Try 495hp on for size from a chip alone. Yeah, but Porsche doesn't have any experience in the performance world or racing, right? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>-Eric
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,831 Posts
Re: Re: (Sue Esponte)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Oh, and by the way, any idea what an APR chip will do to a stock 415hp 996 Turbo? Try 495hp on for size from a chip alone. Yeah, but Porsche doesn't have any experience in the performance world or racing, right? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>apples and oranges.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,037 Posts
Re: Re: (Sue Esponte)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, and by the way, any idea what an APR chip will do to a stock 415hp 996 Turbo? Try 495hp on for size from a chip alone. Yeah, but Porsche doesn't have any experience in the performance world or racing, right? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>-Eric</TD></TR></TABLE><p>you can get out of a stock/chipped R too... once, lol. dollar for dollar though the volvo motor is a strong one.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,526 Posts
Re: Re: (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">apples and oranges.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Why? Are you suggesting that Porsche couldn't have tuned the stock turbo more aggressively? An APR chip <b>alone</b> yields an extra <b>80</b> horsepower without adding even a bit of hardware. They also could have provided a more aggressive exhaust, bigger manifold, etc. But, Porsche made marketing and cost decisions not to do so.<p>I also know people with Stage III kits on their Audi TT 180s that are pushing ~300hp using a stock block. The difference between a 225 and a 180 is all in the size of some of the parts (bigger turbo, manifold, piping, IC, etc.) but they both use a 1.8 liter engine. Hell, my 225 was making over 260hp with minimal cost and I know people with over 100K miles on their similarly equipped TTs.<p>It has nothing to do with experience and everything to do with marketing and counting beans. Ford put a freakin' solid beam rear axle on the new Mustang. Are you going to tell me that Ford and SVT don't have race experience, too? Or, is everything just apples and oranges?<p>-Eric
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
Re: Re: (Sue Esponte)

I have to agree with Eric here. As an automotive engineer, I can tell you that very rarely does executive management tell the engineering community to maximize performance above all other considerations. You are given a TARGET to hit (e.g. horsepower). The challenge then is to hit your target while simultaneously minimizing cost, maximizing reliability and fuel economy, etc.<p>To an engine engineer, bumping up the power of a production motor with no other constraints is a trivial exercise.<p>Here's another way to think about it... It certainly would be possible for McDonald's to create a better burger. Hell, I do it all the time on my backyard grill. They just believe they have a better plan from a business perspective. I think they've made more money selling burgers than I have.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by Dyno at 9:11 PM 7-25-2006</i>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,714 Posts
Re: Re: (Dyno)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dyno</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to agree with Eric here. As an automotive engineer, I can tell you that very rarely does executive management tell the engineering community to maximize performance above all other considerations. You are given a TARGET to hit (e.g. horsepower). The challenge then is to hit your target while simultaneously minimizing cost, maximizing reliability and fuel economy, etc.<p>To an engine engineer, bumping up the power of a production motor with no other constraints is a trivial exercise.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Don't forget about out all of the government regulations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,478 Posts
smog too. I'm sure that the emissions restrictions in the US and the restrictive states like CA impact performance. <p>the people like US who mod the volvos are in the minority. most volvos are driven bone stock and never see a mod. volvo isn't marketing the R to Swedespeeders..they were marketing it to the masses. to make something appeal to the masses - you need to make it one way. <p>for example, my car, with the EVOLVE springs and sway bars, handles WAY better than a stock R. but it's probably a bit bouncier/stiff. that extra stiffness - to ME is great. I LOVE it and I LOVE the handling. But to the AVERAGE R buyer, they migth say " this thing bounces too much, it's too stiff..yuck".<p>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,121 Posts
Re: (Dyno)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dyno</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The manufacturer has strict design rules for the engineers to assure that <b>there will never be contact between pipe and body even if all of the tolerances stack up unfavorably.</b> They also want a guarantee that the pipe won't rattle against anything ever even if bouncing across railroad tracks or the like. In other words, they must trade away that last little bit of performance to avoid rattles and bangs. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Would the infamous rain squeal be an example that would prove your point?<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>As a side note, I've had WAY less clearance issues and I've never experienced the rain squeal with my larger 3" turbo-back exhaust installed vs. stock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,123 Posts
Re: (R Salesman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>R Salesman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would the infamous rain squeal be an example that would prove your point?<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Ha ha. Yeah, I'd bet Sven the Exhaust System Design Engineer didn't get his Christmas bonus last year! Probably demoted to Muffler Hanger Design Engineer.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,526 Posts
Re: (Dyno)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Dyno</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Probably demoted to Muffler Hanger Design Engineer.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You mean, the guy who designed the brace that ultimately bends into the drive shaft if its touched by a speed bump? He needs another demotion. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>-Eric
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top