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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry in advance if this post is a bit long but for the sake of accuracy I wanted to include as much info as possible.

For those owners who have experienced coil failure or those who are now suspecting it, here are my findings. Our good friend came into Ipd with his 2004 V70R with some minor misfire/detonation at high boost, high rpm.

After replacing plugs and the problem persisting he went to a Volvo dealer and was told they've never replaced a set of ignition coils. We took a closer look at the coils and found what you see below.

Pretty clear evidence that this coil has seen better days. So some tests were in order to get a base line on the stock coils, the new replacement stock coils and then with the VST rev kit installed.

Our first measurement is the intial ionization voltage.
Ionization voltage is the term that refers to the voltage necessary to start the flow of electricty across the air gap of the plug.
We used a digital inductive oscilliscope to take the KV and burn time measurements.

Our second measurement is the 'burn time'.
This refers to the length of time in milliseconds that the spark can be maintained after the flow of electricty has begun. The measured voltge here is less than the ionization voltage since once the electrical flow is started it is easier (takes less voltage) to maintain.

A coil can only create a certain amount of spark energy and this energy is used cooperativley to both start and maintain the electrical flow across the spark plug air gap. So a badly worn plug may cause much of the electrical energy to be used just to ionize or start the spark and have very little to provide during the 'burn time'. Conversly a quality plug in good condition as well as things like proper fuel mix, good ignition coils, etc.. will require less ioniziation voltage and therefore provide a longer burn time.

So here is where the rubber meets the road.
Our initial idle reading on the old factory coils was 3.6KV (3600 volts). The hard load reading was 10.2KV (10,200 volts)

Next I replaced the coils with new factory coils and had and idle reading of 4.3KV (4300 volts) and hard load reading of 12.6KV (12,600 volts)
At this point I test drove the vehicle to confirm that the misfire/detonation was corrected. Ran great, really nice tip in throttle response.

Now comes the VST rev kit.

I wasn't too sure exactly what was in the box or exactly how it might work. I had our in house Volvo tech ELI install the individual Rev kit boxes on each coil.



The kit also came with a heavy duty ground wire to connect the engine to the chassis. All the instructions were in Japanese so we assumed that this was to be used in conjuction with the factory ground cables not as a substitute.



Once the Rev kit was installed we check the ionization voltage again at idle 4.3KV (4300 volts) and hard load 13.4KV (13,400 volts).
Now the intial reaction is that the hard load voltage may indicate that the Rev kit is indeed a benefit to ignition voltage. However, the hard load is subjective to loading the car exactly the same each time and that is hard enough even with a dyno, so this intial result seems to be unuseable.

Enough with the teaser.....
I mentioned burn voltage before and that is where the useful data comes in. Our burn voltage measurements are as follow.
Old stock coils - 1.2ms
New stock coils - 1.5ms
W/Rev kit -1.9ms

So with the above data we can see that not only was the burn time increased but it was done without trading off ionization voltage. This now begs the question, just exactly how does the REV kit work and does it provide additional stress on my ignition coils? To answer the first, I suspect that the REV kit is ultimatley operating as a capacitor. A capacitor is much like a small super high speed battery, meaning it can store and release electrical energy at a high rate of speed. Capacitors are also suited for high voltage, low current which is very much what spark energy in an automotive application is. The 'capacitor' is creating a bit more load on the coil causing it to produce a bit more energy, this energy initially charges the capacitor until full and then discharges across the spark plug air gap, the energy in the capacitor is then piggybacked to extend the burn time. To answer the second question; yes it is probably harder on coils, but with qualifications. The coils is definitly putting out more spark energy and for a longer duration, this is certainly desireable from a performance stand point. But how about for longevity? The factory coils aren't the most robust to begin with so asking more from them and the coil drivers in the ECU probably will shorten coil life, but I would expect (guess) this would be minimal, time will tell.

Ipd now carries factory ignition coils if yours are failing or on the way out.
Part# 30713417 $59.95ea for 2001 to 2007 T5 and R models.

As for the Rev kit, we are seeing some valid results and will look into carrying the product further. No price or ETA yet, I'll know more once we speak with VST. To expedite the process a thread of SERIOUS interest would be useful.

Love to hear some feedback
-Lucky

Modified by Ipd-Lucky at 12:56 PM 4-24-2007

Modified by Scott Hart at 1:38 PM 8-7-2007
 

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Re: Ignition coil failure and the upgrade to VST Rev kit. (Ipd-Lucky)

What does all of this mean in terms of performance?

Brandi, if you are reading this, this MUST be the same V70R you saw driving around Olympia. There can't be too many F/G V70R's with Atacama interiors and VST rims.

- Tryg
 

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VERY cool!

My question is what kind of effect does this have on the rest of the electrical system? As you are effectively increasing drain by the coils by approximately 50%.

My guess would be not much - but I know that at least in muscle cars that can cause problems in other areas (like alternators).
 

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Re: Ignition coil failure and the upgrade to VST Rev kit. (Ipd-Lucky)

ok couple of questions

does it fit under the shroud on top of the engine?

was there any niticable diffrance in preformance?

How much will it cost?

will you carry it?

Modified by JKMachine at 12:10 PM 4-24-2007
 

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Re: Ignition coil failure and the upgrade to VST Rev kit. (Ipd-Lucky)

Bottom line in ENGLISH please
(Really)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: (Bender)

Seconday ignition voltage runs upward of 15,000 volts but has a almost negligible amount of current. So little current in fact you can get shocked with a coil numerous times without anything more than a feeling similar to a static shock. I would estimate total additional current draw from the REV kit is probably 1-2amps max, approx the same as a dome light.

-Lucky

Modified by Ipd-Lucky at 1:24 PM 4-24-2007
 

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Re: (Ipd-Lucky)

Quote, originally posted by Ipd-Lucky »
Seconday ignition voltage runs upward of 15,000 volts but has a almost negligible amount of currnet. So little current in fact you can get shocked with a coil numerous times without anything more than a feeling similar to a static shock. I would estimate total additional current draw from the REV kit is probably 1-2amps max, approx the same as a dome light.

-Lucky

Thats really something special - if I am understanding this right it can open up a TON of additional potential for these engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Ignition coil failure and the upgrade to VST Rev kit. (JRL)

JRL,
Like any upgrade, bottom line is it may or may not be for you.
If you're stock, I probably would suggest other mods first.
For those with Stage I or higher, aquamist, downpipe, exhaust, etc...
OR if you're suffering with incosistent performance due to worn coils that aren't operating at 100% this could very much benefit you.

Let me be clear, the Rev kit will not fix or help a bad or failing coil, it will add spark energy to a properly functioning coil.
-Lucky

Modified by Ipd-Lucky at 1:25 PM 4-24-2007
 

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bottom line this allows for a cleaner - more powerful - more consistent - spark; correct? which obviously has tons of implications in terms of performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: (Bender)

I don't know if I'd say a ton of additional potential, but certainly shows ignition can be upgraded.

BTW to answer a previous question the top engine covers do still fit and clear the new Rev kit boxes.
They include small stand off's to help clear the additional height.
-Lucky
 

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Re: (Ipd-Lucky)

Quote, originally posted by Ipd-Lucky »
Gdogg16,
Any listed specs on output?
Contact Javad at http://www.034motorsport.com/

As for the ignition solutions, I had a few friends in the VW community runing them and they were blowing the coils frequently due to high heat and they were over priced. As for outputs, I'll have to dig up some emails if I still have them.
 

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Re: (gdogg16)

Lucky, you said: "For those owners who have experienced coil failure or those who are now suspecting it, here are my findings. Our good friend came into Ipd with his 2004 V70R with some minor misfire/detonation at high boost, high rpm. ".

I'm trying to understand what happens to an engine that might have a weak coil. Does that create pre-detonation in and of itself if the coil reaches a certain threshold of "weakness"? If so, what does that mean, really? Wouldn't the ME7 compensate to prevent that? If not, can this be a possible reason why some R cars show predetonation failures between some cylinders? Would it throw a code of the ME7 sensed a bad coil?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (Short Circuit)

A weak coil cannot cause pre ignition (ping). Pre ignition occurs before the coil is ever fired. A weak coil can cause detonation which is the combustion of the air/fuel charge without propagation from the flame front (key word flame front, it occurs after the spark event).

Take the following example:
Driver is at 1/2 throttle, ~5 psi boost, starting to head up a hill.
As boost levels rise, air/fuel molecules are 'shoved' closer together. this puts more matter in the air gap of the spark plug. The coil now requires higher ionization voltage (start voltage) to bridge the gap and get the burn to start (when I say burn i mean the electrical burn time of the spark not the ignition of air/fuel). The coil under this moderate load may have enough spark energy to handle the job.
Now half way up the hill the driver is almost 3/4 throttle and around 15 psi boost. The molecules of fuel/air are even closer together and more ionization voltage is required, the coil now may not have enough spark energy to PROPERLY ignite the mixture which could lead to detonation. The mixture still ignites although the flame front doesn't rocket off across the cylinder but instead putters for just a few millisecconds before true propagation occurs. This results in reduced performance, increase CO production and of course poor fuel economy.

Lets quickly recap.
The coil did fire, so it wasn't a misfire. The ECU may not report this with a code. There is a threshold of crankshaft speed that must be met and this combustion event while poor, is still suffecient to move the piston down the hole. ME7/9 has no ability to change spark energy through a variable current driver to my knowledge. So compensating for this reduction in component performance through coil saturation is not possible.
-Lucky
 
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