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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all

This car is a 2008 with almost 200k kms on it (125k miles).
EDIT: The car has almost 300k kms on it (185k miles) - I've been driving my in-laws' car while mine is down and their's is the same age (09) and only has 140k kms on it and I think that clouded my memory.

This morning my car suddenly (as in - it seemed fine last night) won't run.

It cranks fine, even starts, but won't idle for more than a few seconds and will die almost immediately if throttle is applied. I can maybe try and take a video later if anyone thinks that might help.

I hooked up my DICE and checked fuel pressure and found it reads as follows:
https://flic.kr/p/218UsXG

it seems to pump up ok at first and then slowly drops until the engine stalls.

It looks to me like the fuel pump is just dying and can't hold and pressure, but I can't find any way to verify this. In the past on a car where I knew how to access this stuff, I'd probably feed 12V directly to the pump at the fuel pump assembly bulkhead connector to see if I could make the pump run that way - rules out a control module or relay. Also then you can sit right there and HEAR the pump running (or not haha).

Any ideas on how to verify what's happening here?

Changing the fuel pump is pretty expensive and will take a lot of work so I don't want to go down that road without first verifying that a pump replacement will fix the problem.
 

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i believe there is a fuel pump relay under the glove box. i say this because you can hear it energize/de-energize when you step on the brake. you can also hear the fuel pump on/off consistent with the relay clicking.

i know this because i'm battling what i believe is a bad check valve in the pump. as a result, the fuel pressure bleeds down when i turn off the car. when i return to start and step on the break i can hear the relay clicking and pump running to build pressure in the line.

i have not examined the relay location under the glove box, but i would start there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks a million sir! If I can find the relay or the connection to the CEM I can feed 12V back to the pump from there and see what I think about it.

FWIW I just had another go at starting it up, and the pump seemed to be making pretty funny noises when I pressed on the brake. Still seems like the likely culprit, but I want more evidence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
so it appears that the relay for the fuel pump is soldered on to the CEM board. This is according to the wiring diagram anyway. I can't find a traditional looking relay under the glove box either so I'm inclined to believe the wiring diagram haha.

I'm starting to think I have no choice but to dig the pump out of the tank, but I'm wondering how I'm going to get the fuel out of the tank. I think it's nearly full!

I could try an old fashioned siphon...

I went through a dead fuel pump with my '98 and I just jumpered the relay socket so that the pump would run full time and pump all the fuel out - I don't see any way to get to the wiring for this pump so I'm not sure I have much of a choice there either. I think I actually saw in the VIDA description for draining the tank that Volvo has a special tool that is basically a fancy siphon.
 

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so it appears that the relay for the fuel pump is soldered on to the CEM board. This is according to the wiring diagram anyway. I can't find a traditional looking relay under the glove box either so I'm inclined to believe the wiring diagram haha.

I'm starting to think I have no choice but to dig the pump out of the tank, but I'm wondering how I'm going to get the fuel out of the tank. I think it's nearly full!

I could try an old fashioned siphon...

I went through a dead fuel pump with my '98 and I just jumpered the relay socket so that the pump would run full time and pump all the fuel out - I don't see any way to get to the wiring for this pump so I'm not sure I have much of a choice there either. I think I actually saw in the VIDA description for draining the tank that Volvo has a special tool that is basically a fancy siphon.
is there a way to energize the pump through vida? otherwise i think you are going to have to siphon.

please keep up posted of your progress?

good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I didn't have any luck getting a siphon hose going. Not sure where the problem was but I couldn't seem to get the hose all the way into the tank. The filler tube narrows significantly to squeeze in around the suspension so maybe it just wouldn't fit through a section of it.

I did manage to figure out how to get the line fittings apart between the line from the pump to the line up to the engine. It looked complicated at first but actually wasn't that tough. I'll get a pic later if I think of it.

I decided to start taking things apart to try to get the tank down, even though I won't actually be able to take the tank down until I get the fuel out. The first thing that needs to come down is the exhaust and I ran into trouble right away. The exhaust on this car is VERY rusty (original life was in Halifax NS) and I was not going to be able to use the fasteners on the flange between the 'centre' pipe and the 'cat pipe'. I started cutting it apart. I'll figure out how to put it back together after I get the pump fixed.

I also ordered a new pump from High Flow Fuel in California. I paid for the fast shipping so hopefully that gets here soon.

In the meantime I have to get the exhaust off and get the fuel out of the tank. Fun fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
is there a way to energize the pump through vida?
There does not appear to be any activation for the pump in the vida diagnostics section unfortunately. Also my version of VIDA appears to have a bug in the 'fault trace' section for this particular problem. The first page tells me to check the fuel pressure with a gauge to verify the sensor is working, and the second page says to check something else (I forget) but when you press continue to go to the next step it displays an error. Looks like a typo in the programming for the page. Maybe an updated version would work better? Anyway such a bummer.
 

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Man, I feel for you. What a job especially not being able to confirm root cause first. Hang in there -you will feel like a king when you beat this! Please keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the support!

I got a new pump from HghFlowFuel.com
https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23905316-genuine-walbro-gca761-2-255lph-fuel-pump-volvo-xc70-2003-2010.html

Don't buy this - it's the wrong pump. The body is not large enough diameter to fit in the holder and the bottom inlet is all wrong. I'm trying to initiate a return with them but I doubt they'll do anything about the $95 USD shipping charge I paid to get it, and they'll probably expect that I pay to ship it back to them... not sure it will be worth it yet. I was briefly prepared to try to modify this pump somehow to make it work and eventually decided it would just require too much - I knew I could get the car running but would I feel ok sending my wife and kids on a long highway trip knowing the pump was jiggered up so much? nope.


For a while I was thinking "oh god what if the pump wasn't actually the problem and I've taken all this crap apart!"

I decided to try to get it running on a 'known good pump' so I rigged that up. I made up a line that fed fuel into the feed line normally connected the in-tank pump and connected a pump I had from my '98. I put the pump in a jug of fuel and powered it directly off the battery. At first I couldn't get it started (OH NO!) and for a while I thought I was going to have to put the car back together and have it towed to a garage for someone else to figure it out (OH NOE$$$$!!!). But I gave the battery a really good charge with a bigger borrowed charger and got it running on the test pump rig.

I have now ordered a new complete pump assembly from autopartsway.ca
https://www.autopartsway.ca/partlist.cfm?volvo/2008/xc70/3.2/3.2l-l6/allb/air-and-fuel-delivery/fuel-pumps-and-related-components/fuel-pump-module-assembly/pagenum1/tabs

It should be here on Friday so I'll try to put everything back together than.

I'll try to get some picture of things because it doesn't seem like there is a lot of info in the forums about how this fuel system works.

Did you know there are a TON of hoses and wires inside the tank? I think there actually might be a SECOND electric pump mounted inside the tank to move fuel from one side of the 'saddle' to the other. I'm not sure what you're supposed to do if it fails because there is no listing for this part.

I'm also considering adding a fuel filter to the setup while I've got everything apart.
 

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wow...progress. congrats.

pics would be great. how long did it take you to pull the tank? did you do this on ramps or do you have a lift?

maybe you can post the wrong pump for sale in the classifieds?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have the back of the car up on ramps (jacked up, ramps inserted under wheels) and the front pass side up on a stand, just for added clearance.

Taking the tank down wasn't the hard part really.

Getting the exhaust apart was a pain - the 'mid pipe' has a flat flange where it connects to the two 'cat pipes' and the fasteners on that flange were completely disintegrated. I successfully cut the bottom bolts off but couldn't get to the top ones with any kind of tool. There was just no clearance at all. I ended up cutting the exhaust using my angle grinder and reciprocating saw just behind the flange on the 'cat pipe' side. I'll have to figure out how to put that back together later. I might just opt for a small section of pipe with some clamps and take it to an exhaust place for a real repair. Also the back of the mid pipe was previously repaired by using a 'sleeve with clamps' type repair at the joint to the rear exhaust section (over-pipe and rear mufflers) and it was pretty tough to get out. I had a friend help me, and my acetylene torch was especially useful to soften everything up.

Also, removing the pump itself was quite an adventure. There are literally about 10 things that need to be disconnected before you can remove the pump assembly from the tank, and they all have fragile cryptic clips and mechanisms that are likely impossible to replace if you break them. There is a fair bit of 'in-tank' pre-disassembly before you can get the pump out.


And good idea on selling the wrong pump. Maybe ebay will work.


As a side note, while I was looking around for some info on the actual pump in the assembly by using numbers I pulled off the case I found this pump for a 2006-2007 Ford Freestar:
https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/fuel-pump/delphi-fuel-pump/555966_278550_20966

Honestly that looks JUST like the same pump and it is way cheaper than the one that's actually FOR a Volvo.... might be worth someone's time if they ever need a replacement pump and have a parts dealer nearby they can work with on a return if it ends up not working...
 

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Nice work! Where in Canada are you located? I’ve got a couple P3 70 series tools that I would happily share with some fellow Canucks in need of the opportunity arose. I’d happily share with my US buddies too but shipping across the border makes it a bit more difficult.
Pierre
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm actually in Moncton, NB - I see you're in Canada. It makes shipping from the US a bit harder (shipping, taxes, duties, etc) but more and more sites/suppliers are popping up in Canada (wrenchmonkey, autopartsway, etc).
 

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I'm actually in Moncton, NB - I see you're in Canada. It makes shipping from the US a bit harder (shipping, taxes, duties, etc) but more and more sites/suppliers are popping up in Canada (wrenchmonkey, autopartsway, etc).
Yep, I'm pretty lucky in that I'm not that far from the border - I live in Toronto but I work out of Burlington so only another 45min to get to the border where I have one of those virtual UPS store mailboxes that cost me $5 per package. Not a bad deal. I also ask my inlaws to bring stuff up for me quite regularly which helps too. Ping me if you are ever in need of a) the climate fan removal tool or b) the auxiliary belt/ac compressor alignment tool - I've got both of those on hand and would happily lend them out. I think the aux belt, etc requires change out at 240,000km...you've still got a ways to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks so much sir! I actually did the climate fan already - I tried to buy a tool and couldn't seem to get one anywhere so I made one that worked ok. That's not the most fun job. I have the aux belt stuff on my mind for some time in the future. Either this summer or next, barring a failure. I'll keep in mind that you have the tool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So I have made some progress. I'm putting the exhaust back together now and hopefully the car will be rolling on it's own tonight. It could drive now but with not exhaust it's pretty damn loud haha.

The electrical connections for the fuel pump module are on the driver's side under the rear seat. There are two multi-pin connectors and a ground strap. They feed through a big rubber plug down to the tank. It does not appear that there is any way to feed power to the pump (to hotwire-test it, etc) because these wires all go to the fuel pump module/controller (which is mounted on top of the tank under the driver's rear seat). It doesn't matter, because I found out through trial-and-error that this is some kind of funky pump which actually has 3 wires controlling it. The 2 big lines are the power and ground of course, but there is a third small (signal?) wire which maybe controls some kind of valve or something? If you hotwire the pump directly you can hear the pump run like crazy but it won't output anything - it appears to need the fuel pump controller to feed something into that third wire before the pump will put any fuel out on it's output line. Weird.

Also I looked high and low but was unable to find out anything about this pump. It doesn't have any branding on it at all. I took some pictures of the numbers in case someone else decides to try to track something down.
IMG_2830 by joel.dunham, on Flickr
IMG_2831 by joel.dunham, on Flickr
IMG_2829 by joel.dunham, on Flickr

I did find this guy (in Russia?) struggling with finding a pump also
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drive2.ru%2Fl%2F4590812%2F&edit-text=&act=url

Also this looks like the right pump but you have to buy 500 (!!)
https://yinhao.en.alibaba.com/product/1226669508-50087189/Crylser_Electric_Fuel_Pump.html#!

I decided that I would get the car running on the new pump before I actually installed it in the tank and put everything back together, because putting the tank back up by myself seemed like it was going to be an annoying job (spoiler: it was). So I connected the pump to all of the inner-tank workings and (after a brief scare when I forgot to connect the pump ground... doh!) got the car running with the new pump all hooked up to the fuel lines and electrics of the car, but sitting in a jug of gas next to the real fuel tank. I was now convinced the car was going to run on this tank so I could put everything back together.

Here's the tank laying on the floor:
IMG_2839 by joel.dunham, on Flickr

Here it is with all the hoses pulled out getting hooked up to the new pump for testing:
IMG_2841 by joel.dunham, on Flickr


I also got a couple of (pretty bad) shots of whatever that thing is mounted inside the tank. Looking at the wiring on the inside of the tank I'd say there is another level sender in the driver's side of the saddle tank, and I think this thing mounted in the passenger's side of the tank (with the main pump) is some kind of electric ejector pump to move fuel from the other side of the saddle tank. The ejector pump in my 1998 ran on the pressure on the return line from the pressure regulator. I'm not sure this car has a pressure regulator, again maybe this is related to that third wire on the pump. There is only one fuel line leaving the tank so this is a 'return-less' system.

IMG_2834 by joel.dunham, on Flickr

IMG_2837 by joel.dunham, on Flickr

more to come later.
 

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great work and thanks. doesn't look like fun.

any chance once you're finished and the trauma of the job wears off you can post a write up? or at least the key points?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@Steve H: this car is a 2008 XC70.

@mrscullini: I'm kind of giving you the high points here as I put some of this stuff together. I could maybe make a PDF of the instructions from VIDA if I knew where to post it... does this board do file uploads like that? I'll see if I can collect some more thoughts on this job to put up here for the next guy though.
 
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