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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2005 S60R with GT (i.e. 5-sp) < 15,000 mi. Has tranny issues, looks likely to be replaced by factory tranny under warranty. I know this sounds like a stupid question ... but any chance it could be replaced with the 6-speed GT instead of the 5-speed since there's several 'benefits' ... including no more 'flair shift' issues, no more torque limits, etc.

I'd expect that there'd be a bunch of other dependencies on the TCM itself, software versions in the TCM and ECU, maybe issues with other components or changes in the 06 versus 05 Haldex that would make such a mating of an 05 car with an 06 GT tranny very unlikely ... but it's an interesting enough proposition that I thought it was at least worth asking a dumb question.

In a perfect universe where everything was just 'easy' ... if it was just a tranny swap and loading the right software version in the the TCM and ECU ... I'd much prefer to replace it with the 6-speed and eliminate a whole slew of issues related to the 5-speed GT without requiring that I swap out the whole car for an 06. I'm annoyed with the 5-speed GT issues, but I don't know that I'm THAT annoyed that I'd swap out the entire 05 with < 15,000 just to move over to an 06 with the 6-speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: (R_Rated)

Well, it's a warranty swap ... so if by some incredible luck there were no other mechanical dependencies and just software updates ... I'd push the dealer to swap it with the 6-speed if there were no other net increases in costs or headaches to the dealer to do it. As unlikely as it seems, one issue is that I'd guess it's certainly much easier for VCNA to get a new factory 6-speed than a 5-speed, since the 5-speed has not been on the assembly line for 18 months.
 

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Re: (roadking)

If the TCM (transmission control module) sits on the same bus as the ECU, and they talk back and forth, I believe they are different.
 

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Re: (roadking)

Not that I have any experience with this, but I'm sure they wouldn't go for adding a clutch pedal assembly. Even if everything else went right (a long shot for sure) I'm sure you'd have to pony up for the $ for that part of the switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: (needsdecaf)

6-speed GT ... not MT. And if they asked me to pay for a new TCM, I'd probably do it. It's much cheaper than selling the car with depreciation and all and buying a new 06, and the 6-speed GT solves a slew of issues related to the 5-speed.
 

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Re: (roadking)

Roadking,
Just a thought and this may sound crazy but...when you go to sell the R, most likely a buyer would be someone who knows about the car (including the fact that 05's don't come with a 6-speed auto). I think it could get weird trying to explain why your transmission was replaced. I think this would deter a buyer. Just a thought anyways.
 

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Re: (Our R)

Quote, originally posted by Our R »
If the TCM (transmission control module) sits on the same bus as the ECU, and they talk back and forth, I believe they are different.

the automatic tranny has it's own ECU/Brain
 

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Re: (roadking)

Quote, originally posted by roadking »
6-speed GT ... not MT.

DOH!


That'll teach me to read too fast.

Good luck, that would be a sweet upgrade.

You could thenk get a IPD ECU Stage II without fear of harming the tranny. I'd definitely pursue it! What a difference that would be!
http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: Hypothetical question ... could you put a 6 speed GT in an 05 chassis? (roadking)

As someone else already mentioned it's "hypothetical" possible...but since it's a warranty-case, it's not!
And warranty"jobs" are ALWAYS with exchange-parts if available (engine, tranny, driveshaft, alternator, combi, radio, nav-player, ECM (ecu),....
infact... in theory it's NOT even possible to order a brand "new" engine from VOLVO

BMW give the choice of new or exchange....(new: +11.000€ exchangebase:+8.500€ (amount is for the 330d 530d engine)).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Hypothetical question ... could you put a 6 speed GT in an 05 chassis? (JARMO)

Well, there is hopeful wishing ...

Dealer couldn't find a replacement tranny anywhere in the US, so is having a factory unit shipped from Sweden.

Like I said ... if the dealer said there was the 'option' of putting in a 6-speed instead, but it would require that I put in some money for the other components that may also be required (e.g., the TCM) ... I'd be willing to pitch in as long as the cost was reasonable ... say $1,000-$1,500. It would still beat the cost of absorbing the depreciation on the 05 if I wanted to trade out the car itself for an 06. I wouldn't worry too much about future buyers ... I tend to drive my Volvos for a very long time, and anyone in their right mind would prefer the 6-speed.
 

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I would guess one problem is that the ECU would have to be upgraded to adjust the TQ limits to realize some of the gains, but that you probably couldnt do that due to VIN incompatibility. As a result, you would probably be forced into an aftermarket ECU, and all of the attending warranty/service issues. Just my thoughts. Have you asked the dealer if its technically feasible?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (rgrove)

I plan on asking tomorrow. I'd expect the ECU and TCM to be simply software version issues, not the physical controller board itself ... it's just software. I would think that's a relatively easy item. I'm just not sure what other physical part issues there may be between the 6-speed GT and other components, e.g., Haldex, physical shift linkage, etc.
 

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Re: (rgrove)

Quote, originally posted by rgrove »
I would guess one problem is that the ECU would have to be upgraded to adjust the TQ limits to realize some of the gains, but that you probably couldnt do that due to VIN incompatibility.

Actually, the ECU doesn't initiate torque limiting, it's a request from the TCM (which of course doesn't exist on the 6MT, ergo no limit). Torque is also limited by the BCM, to control wheel slip, etc.

I agree that the TCM swap from 5GT to 6GT isn't going to be trivial, almost certainly not just a software load. But it is an interesting idea!

Hardware is definitely going to be an issue. I expect the angle gear to be different, or at least the coupling, which amounts to the same thing. Hang on to your wallet, I bet.

Tom.
 
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