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Oh now these thoughts are very helpful to know more. I was looking at the Consumer Reports just to see what they say, and that's why I thought 2017/2018 were the way to go. (see photo attached)
Consumer Reports is a joke, imo. They're extremely inconsistent in their ratings. They'll rate some model years widely different despite no major changes and a mature platform. Then they'll rate two models from two different brands widely different despite being basically the same vehicle (Chevy Silverado vs GMC Sierra, for example). Their ratings should be viewed as nothing more than entertainment. You'd get data that was as-good-or-better reading Ranger Rick or People magazine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks for that. Is the general sentiment then that 2019 is the way to go, because 2018 was the first year of a refreshed model?
 

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2021 XC60 T8/Recharge
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+1 to 2019 over 2018 because of the refresh.
 

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$85, I guess.

Looks official to me: https://media.audiusa.com/assets/do...-AudiFunctiononDemandNavPressReleaseFINAL.pdf

Looks to be for vehicles not optioned from factory.
Isn't that for a wider package of features (like music and various days intensive activities)?

I suspect that car companies are going to be eager to turn their vehicles into mobile data centers. The problem they'll have is that we all have fancy smartphones in our pockets already.

You're a great source of interesting info. Thanks!
 

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Oh thanks, these thoughts are very helpful to know more. I was looking at the Consumer Reports just to see what they say, and that's why I thought 2017/2018 were the way to go. (see photo attached) View attachment 126559

CR's data should be interpreted with a grain of salt. You'll sometime see them do something like declare 2019 and 2021 unreliable whereas 2020 is ok. Survey data had understandable error and there are minor fluctuations that they over interpret.

Also, the error rate for vehicles in the first few years of production is low so that rankings are not always meaningful.

All that said, I trust CR way more than anecdotal comments on enthusiast forums.
 

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Just an FYI on the 2019 XC60. I believe that most 2019s were built in China. Vin numbers will start with "L". Doesn't bother me any but I think it bothers many. Very late 19s and 20s transitioned back to being built at Torslanda I recall. I think all years of the new XC60 have been pretty reliable.
 

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Just an FYI on the 2019 XC60. I believe that most 2019s were built in China. Vin numbers will start with "L". Doesn't bother me any but I think it bothers many. Very late 19s and 20s transitioned back to being built at Torslanda I recall. I think all years of the new XC60 have been pretty reliable.
Yep. My 2019 is a Chinese VIN. My parents also have a 2019 and it's Sweedish.

There are a few materials differences, but I'm not sure if that's because we have different interior colors or if it's the manufacture location. For example, I have maroon brown and the backs of my seats are hard but my parents have amber and they're soft.

I've spent extensive time in both of our XC60's, and honestly, quality between the two seems identical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Just an FYI on the 2019 XC60. I believe that most 2019s were built in China. Vin numbers will start with "L". Doesn't bother me any but I think it bothers many. Very late 19s and 20s transitioned back to being built at Torslanda I recall. I think all years of the new XC60 have been pretty reliable.
Well, one thing that many people (as you say) should consider is that most of our highest end electronics and consumer goods come from China now. They don't come from Sweden, generally. So the idea that made in China = lesser quality (?) is a non sequitur.

It all comes down to the quality control that the parent company requires of its operations. If the company uses another country as purely low cost labor and cheaping out on quality, then you'll get crap. Holds true anywhere, including China! You can get gold, you can get crap. It's up to the company.
 

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Well, one thing that many people (as you say) should consider is that most of our highest end electronics and consumer goods come from China now. They don't come from Sweden, generally. So the idea that made in China = lesser quality (?) is a non sequitur.

It all comes down to the quality control that the parent company requires of its operations. If the company uses another country as purely low cost labor and cheaping out on quality, then you'll get crap. Holds true anywhere, including China! You can get gold, you can get crap. It's up to the company.

Very good points. I've always thought that Volvo controlled the quality at its Chinese plants extremely well. Why would they not as their reputation is on the line. I personally would have no problem buying a Volvo built in China, the US or even Mexico (if they ever built a factory there). But as I said there are a lot of people who wont touch anything from China with a 20ft pole.

I was once waiting for an oil change and was poking around the showroom while an older couple was looking at a very nice XC60 on the floor. It was built in China. When they figured that out the guy went on a rant. I don't think they drove home in a new Volvo that day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
... I believe that most 2019s were built in China. Vin numbers will start with "L". ...
It seems odd to me (not knowing any other background info) that you would spin up a vehicle production line for one year in a new country, and then stop it? Or did they convert it to a different model?
 

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It seems odd to me (not knowing any other background info) that you would spin up a vehicle production line for one year in a new country, and then stop it? Or did they convert it to a different model?
Tariffs on imports from China to the US killed it.
 

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Oh, by the way I see from your signature @cowfootball that you have the PHEV model! Can you help me understand whether this can be slow trickle charged from a 120V (level 1) plug, or is it only level 2? Thanks!
It can be level 1 charged. It comes with an adapter for a standard US 110V outlet (NEMA 5-15P) at 12A or a 240V 16A level 2 (NEMA 6-20P). The car side is just SAE J1772 so any compliant cable (e.g., public charge stations) work fine.
 

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It seems odd to me (not knowing any other background info) that you would spin up a vehicle production line for one year in a new country, and then stop it? Or did they convert it to a different model?
Thank Trump and one of his many tantrums.
 

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I've driven most of what has been discussed above and owned a '16 XC60 and a '13 Rx 350. The BMWs, Audi and Mazdas have harsh rides, which might be a drawback for your parents. The Mazdas in "Signature trim" have luxury looking interiors, but we found the seats uncomfortable and the engines very rough and noisy.

Have you considered something like the Volvo V90CC or the Merc E Class equivalent? Better ride, similar cargo capacity and with the same or more ground clearance than most crossover SUVs, making entrance and egress easy.

The Lexus Rx series in non-hybrid trim used to have a very pleasant interior; nice leather, attractive wood and no cheap plastic. I think it's only the hybrids that have gone a bit overboard on being eco-friendly. I had the Lexus at that time because I had a bad back and two bad knees. It had numb steering and '57 Buick-ish handling, but its ride was as comfortable as could be found anywhere near the price; a great highway cruiser. Two knee replacements later I traded it in on the XC60, and now am on my second V90CC.
 

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Open the same topic on the Lexus and BMW forum, and then you will get real information
 

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Open the same topic on the Lexus and BMW forum, and then you will get real information
Well, you'll get different biases, but yes I agree that if you get enough bias opinions you can distill value. :)
 

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Since I got the R-Design trim it's probably obviously that I'm more concerned with the "sport" part of SUV, so I don't know that I'm adding much useful information here. But I'll still throw in my $0.02, if only because I like to hear myself talk.

Before I purchased my '18 XC60 I cross-shopped it with a '19 RDX, a '19 Stelvio Ti Sport, an '18 base Macan, and a '15 Macan S. They were all within $1,000 of each other, but the XC60 was the only one that was CPO. The RDX, Stelvio, and base Macan each had varying amounts of their base warranties left, though none were warrantied through June 2023 like the XC60 is.

The RDX was the least sporty of the competitors. It was certainly nice, though Acura's True Touchpad would certainly take some getting used to. Ultimately, though, it wasn't sporty enough for me, and the one I was looking at didn't have a key feature that I "need" - a heated steering wheel (🎻 <-- world's smallest violin). The '15 Macan S was easily the most fun to drive, but it was out of warranty, and a platinum extended warranty was going to run me ~$3,000. Given that some of the V6 Macans have experienced an oil leak at the timing cover, which is an engine-out repair (o_O), I ultimately had to pass on it. The Stelvio, while a lot of fun to drive (I'd put it second on this list for FTD factor), felt cheap on the inside. There also seemed to be a LOT of turbo lag. And while the base Macan had all the goodies I wanted, the 2.0 engine left a lot to be desired. I did consider getting it and then getting an APR tune, but then I'd run into potential warranty issues.

So I ended up with the XC60, to which I'll be adding the Polestar tune tomorrow. The one I got is spec'd out nearly perfectly for me; the only two things I wish it had are heated rear seats and red paint. Otherwise, though, it fits my needs quite well. It's got more luxuries than I need, and even without the Polestar tune it's been sporty and quick enough for my purposes. I do wish it were slightly lower and had wider tires, but both of those seem accomplishable without much trouble.
 

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One important thing to note, each one of those other cars comes with TWO functioning keys. Oh the luxury!

Kidding, kidding...

More seriously - I think a Macan is the best car in this category, but the total cost of ownership is substantially higher, even if the sticker price is comparable.
 

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CR's data should be interpreted with a grain of salt. You'll sometime see them do something like declare 2019 and 2021 unreliable whereas 2020 is ok. Survey data had understandable error and there are minor fluctuations that they over interpret.

Also, the error rate for vehicles in the first few years of production is low so that rankings are not always meaningful.

All that said, I trust CR way more than anecdotal comments on enthusiast forums.

Yeah, no source of comprehensive automotive reliability data is perfect, but CR is probably the best consistent source. The general rule of thumb is that the back end of a model run is typically more reliable since the automaker has millions of miles of the previous model years to learn about issues and remedy them in the supply chain or in manufacturing. Warranty expense-per-unit-sold analysis on varying vehicle ages tends to support this general idea. But you usually don't want the absolute last model year of a production cycle either.

I've seen some vehicles where extreme cost cutting really hurts vehicle reliability. I remember some data with a car that was on its 11th model year. That thing gotten sooooooo long in the tooth, that by its last year there were some really draconian cost cutting happening to make the margins work on such an old busted car. You don't want the absolute last model year of a long-tail dog either.

Anyway, for people that want max-reliability, I usually advise them to purchase a car that is older in the model cycle; but to avoid any model year that might have had a major powertrain refresh. This way their likelihood of having the car serviced is lower, and they can treat their car like a boring, but reliable appliance.

But for people that want a bit more cutting edge stuff, they should lease a car that is in its second model year. That first model year usually has the most amount of learning to be applied.

I remember a story where a bunch of cars on a brand new run kept having leaks near the dipstick hole. Cars were coming in with like 500 miles on the odometer with the owners complaining about oil stains in their garage. Engineering eventually isolated the leak to the dipstick hole; it was not a leak due to the obvious culprits of the oil filter housing or oil pan gasket. In true victim blaming fashion, the first theory was that a bunch of unconnected customers were aggressively checking their oil levels and jamming their dipsticks back in. Lolz.

On these affected cars it literally looked like someone bent the dipstick away from the block causing weird stress and a crack on the dipstick hole housing. It took some unfortunate guy weeks of extra digging to sort this out, but he was like amazed when he finally found the root cause. Anyway they fixed it the next model year and never spoke of this issue again. Just had a few thousand unhappy customers in year 1.
 
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