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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've heard some people use Tolene to increase the octane of fuel, is it a safe alternative to high octane fuel? I would rather buy a little Tolene and mix it before I hit the track then pay $5.50 a gallon for 100.<br>DAn
 

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Very safe being that it is already one of the many additive used to formulate fuel... I mix 2-3 gallons of Toluene with each tank, car runs like a rocket even in 100+ degree heat. I am DONE with race gas! Toluene is 114 Octane (R+M/2). Here are a couple of things to read if you wish:<br><A HREF="http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneexplained.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.gnttype.org/techare....html</A><br>Health: <A HREF="http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/toluene/health_tol.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers....html</A><p>I get mine at ICI Paints: <A HREF="http://www.icipaintsstores.com/home/index.jsp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.icipaintsstores.com/home/index.jsp</A> I pay about $6 a gallon with tax, way cheaper than the racegas here which is $8/gallon and only 100 octane.
 

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Re: How safe is Tolulene as a additive? (Ride R)

I've used toluene in various turbo cars over the past several years to get to a higher octane level. As long as you aren't adding so much that you have more straight toluene than gasoline mix in your car it shouldn't be an issue. If you plan to add a lot to your tank on a regular basis (I can't imagine why you would because at that point you can't enjoy the difference in higher octane levels and the cost would exceed straight 100 octane race gas) you need to start adding a lubricant (e.g., Marvel Mystery Oil) or you will run the risk of damaging your fuel system and possibly fouling your cylinder heads from what I've read.<p>From my limited experience in the R, using toluene on top of crappy California 91 octane yields dramatically better results.
 

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i added toluene to my gas for a few tanks. it works as well as race gas to up octane - at least from my personal experience.<p>but i think race gas is better in that i have read several articles that showed while toluene can up octane, it can also have other negative side effects....it isn't gas...yes it's in gas...but it's not gas.<p>race gas is gas = it's meant to burn in your car, and adding race gas to non race gas is going to give you increased octane and none of the issues toluene can add.<p>i remember that the article said that toluene has a different burn characteristic than gas, so while the octane is higher, ti won't burn as efficiently...making it less optimal than race gas in terms of a gas additive.<p>i add race gas when i need it and can get access to it.<p>for me, when i need to up the octane, and can't find race gas, it's way cheaper/economical and WAY LESS MESSY to just buy a can of NOS race formula octane booster and add that to at ank of gas. it's about $12 a can and treats a fullt ank.<p>i've used race gas mixed with 91 and I've used the NOS brand octane booster. i have also run these tanks back to back with plain old 91.<p>there is a DEFINITE power gain adding JUST teh NOS brand octane booster to a tank of 91 - PERIOD> it's not hype, it's not in my head, the stuff works. it's smalllittle bottle i can keep in a box in the trunk and it's simple and easy to add. it's got that MMT stuff in it, which has been proven an effective way to up octane. mabye it is bad for cats...i 've heard yes and i've heard no. for uping octane and getting more performance on a car like ours, it works. on my car with the EVOLVE 93 octane power package, it works like a charm. <p>my car HATES 91.<p>my vote goes to<p>1) adding race gas<br>2) adding octane boosters<br>3) adding toluene/etc<br>4) just run 91 and don't drive it hard. <p>my neighbor has an EVO VIII - and he has the same complaints we do. Heat and 91 octane KILL his car. He runs 100 octane ONLY in his car... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> it's not just us lusting for high octane and cool temps...
 

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Re: (23109VC)

Octane booster do work in as much as they do raise the octance level in your tank - eventually. The issue is that a bottle of this stuff is very expensive and typically raises your octane <B>by a percentage of one point</B>. Toluene (or a xylene mix) is much more cost effective in raising octane. <p>By means of contrast, 2-3 gallons of toluene added to 91 will get you to the 94 level where the R starts to wake up. It would take you many many many bottles of typical octane booster for the same effect.
 

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Re: How safe is Tolulene as a additive? (rollie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>rollie</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've used toluene in various turbo cars over the past several years to get to a higher octane level. As long as you aren't adding so much that you have more straight toluene than gasoline mix in your car it shouldn't be an issue. If you plan to add a lot to your tank on a regular basis (I can't imagine why you would because at that point you can't enjoy the difference in higher octane levels and the cost would exceed straight 100 octane race gas) you need to start adding a lubricant (e.g., Marvel Mystery Oil) or you will run the risk of damaging your fuel system and possibly fouling your cylinder heads from what I've read.<p>From my limited experience in the R, using toluene on top of crappy California 91 octane yields dramatically better results.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I think you hit it on the head there rollie! As long as you don't exceed a 30% or so mixture of toluene (really even higher) you will be fine. Hell, 3 Gallons ot toluene only yeilds me 94.8 octane... but I can most definately tell the difference between having it and not. I would be comfortable adding UP TO 5 gallons of toluene to a full tank...
 

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Re: (23109VC)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>23109VC</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>i remember that the article said that toluene has a different burn characteristic than gas, so while the octane is higher, ti won't burn as efficiently...making it less optimal than race gas in terms of a gas additive.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Yes the burn characterisics are actually better for us. Here is a quote from the link I posted:<p>"Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.<p>Toluene has a RON octane rating of 121 and a MON rating of 107, leading to a (R+M)/2 rating of 114. (R+M)/2 is how ordinary fuels are rated in the US. Note that toluene has a sensitivity rating of 121-107=14. This compares favorably with alcohols which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a heavily loaded engine.<p>Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline (0.87 g/mL vs. 0.72-0.74) and contains more energy per unit volume. Thus combustion of toluene leads to more energy being liberated and thus more power generated. This is in contrast to oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE which contain less energy per unit volume compared to gasoline. The higher heating value of toluene also means that the exhaust gases contain more kinetic energy, which in turn means that there is more energy to drive turbocharger vanes. In practical terms this is experienced as a faster onset of turbo boost. "
 

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the octane boosters with MMT in it do NOT only give you one point..they will get you up to 93 or 94. the standard octane boosters = yes..they barely raise octane..but the ones using MMT, like NOS Racing brand, and a couple others, really work.<p>for how small of a bottle they are, they work wonders. try a $12 bottle of the NOS stuff. <p>Believe me, I've experiemented with gas in my R for the past year. I've done 91, 100/91 mixes, pure 100, toluene, and various over the counter octane boosters.<p>the NOS brand stuff works. it's as good as adding 2-3 gallons of toluene. adding toluene is a big messy pain. i finally found a nice little plastic spicket thing that I got at home depot that snaps onto the toluene cans to make pouring much less messy..but it's still a paint...and you look like a not so nice guy at the gas station dumping what looks like cans of paint thinner in your gas tank!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> it's quicker, cheaper, and easier to pour in a 12-16 oz can of octane booster.<p>same result. IMHO...and I should know.<p>
 

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Re: (23109VC)

I have zero experience with NOS brand octane boosters or anything new on the market in the past 2-3 years for that matter. If you say NOS is different I take your word for it.<p>Thanks.<p>
 

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Re: (23109VC)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>23109VC</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Believe me, I've experiemented with gas in my R for the past year. I've done 91, 100/91 mixes, pure 100, toluene, and various over the counter octane boosters.<p>the NOS brand stuff works. it's as good as adding 2-3 gallons of toluene. adding toluene is a big messy pain. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>bs...a 12oz bottle would have to be like 200 octane if you wanted to get the same affects of 2-3 gallons of toulene when added to 91...there is just no way for the NOS additive to bring up the Octane rating that much, with that little fluid...it just doesn't make any sense mathmatically<p>Say you have 3 gallons of 93 (93 cuz I'm in Maryland and don't have ****ty 91)<p>You add 1 Gallon of 115 Octane Toulene so you have 3 gallons of 93 and 1 Gallon of 115. 3*93+1*115/4 = 98.5 R+M/2<p>So again, you have 3 gallons of 93 and 1 12oz bottle of NOS additive. To increase octane to 98.5 (like the last time), you'll need<p>96 oz (1 liter = 32 oz)*93+x*12/108 (total fluid) = 98.5<p>x=142.5 octane in 12Ozs to get the same power as the Toulene...I doubt the NOS stuff is 145 octane as I doubt that is legal to sell...and it would be a lot more expensive...probably a huge fire/expolsive risk too<p>Octane Boosters = Rubbish
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanx for the imput, I think I'll try some Tolulene and see what happens. I was just worried about ruining fuel lines or causing some catastrophic disaster.<br>DAn
 

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Re: (lax01)

<I>"... The Idaho Corvette Page acquired octane booster test data from an independent research laboratory. The first test was straight 92-octane unleaded gas from a Chevron station in southern California. It tested at 96.3 RON and 88.3 MON for an R+M/2 rating of 92.3, 0.3-oct. higher than the rating on the pump. To a second sample of Chevron 92 from the same station, the lab added “104 Octane Boost”. The octane of the gasoline modified with this booster was unchanged. The lab tested a third sample of Chevron 92 and NOS brand “Street Formula”, a MMT octane booster, mixed 1:170 (12-oz. bottle in 16 gal. of gas). The results were: 96.8 RON, 88.4 MON and 92.6 R+M/2, a measurable change but, clearly, as the MON went up only 0.1-oct, not a practical improvement. NOS’ most potent booster, “Racing Formula”, another MMT-based product, in Chevron 92, tested at 98.5 RON, 90.4 MON and 94.5 R+M/2, a credible but modest improvement.<p>Before we get farther into testing, we should advise the reader that some of the research for this article was done in 2001, just before a change in premium unleaded fuel in the western United States from 92-octane to 91-octane. Some of the testing done for this article was with 92-octane fuel, however, some additional testing and price research was done, later, with 91-octane fuel. We apologize for the confusion but, unfortunately, we had no control over it.<p>That NOS octane booster lab-tested reasonably well intrigued us enough to give it a practical test. We picked a 1995 ZR1. In hot weather, the ZR1’s LT5 engine, when run on premium unleaded pump gas, will detonate under high load and, thus, will have spark retard as a result of knock sensing by the engine computer. We demonstrated this by running the car on a Super Flow SF-840 “Auto-Dyn, dual-mode chassis dynamometer at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma, California while monitoring the engine controls data with a Vetronix Mastertech scan tester. The engine intake air temperature (IAT) was 108 degrees F. Between peak torque and peak power, the Mastertech showed 5-8 degrees spark retard on each of several dyno tests. <p>The car had 15 gallons of Chevron, premium unleaded in it when we added one bottle of NOS “Racing Formula”, drove it 5 miles to mix the booster thoroughly then put the car back on the Auto-Dyn. This time, in spite of the IAT climbing to 115°F, the Mastertech showed a maximum of two degrees retard and, on three of six passes, it read no spark retard at all. Run #5 was the best with power at the rear wheels up almost nine horsepower because the gasoline’s octane was, now, just high enough to tolerate full spark advance...."</I><p> <br>
 

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Did a search on this stuff and came up with this interesting info, does this mean that in the winters, us guys up north shouldn't use it??<p>"Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84% toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. I recommend that the concentration of toluene used to not exceed what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement. "
 

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Re: (s60rdood)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>s60rdood</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did a search on this stuff and came up with this interesting info, does this mean that in the winters, us guys up north shouldn't use it??<p>"Because toluene is such an effective anti knock fuel it also means that it is more difficult to ignite at low temperatures. The Formula 1 cars that ran on 84% toluene needed to have hot radiator air diverted to heat its fuel tank to 70C to assist its vaporization. Thus too strong a concentration of toluene will lead to poor cold start and running characteristics. I recommend that the concentration of toluene used to not exceed what the engine is capable of utilizing. i.e. Experiment with small increases in concentration until you can no longer detect an improvement. "</TD></TR></TABLE><p>No...it just means don't use too high of concentrate of it...3:1 is usually safe...and you probably shouldn't run it 24/7...as toulene has been known to eat through rubber fuel lines
 

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Re: (StaggRLee)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>StaggRLee</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><I>"... The Idaho Corvette Page acquired octane booster test data from an independent research laboratory. The first test was straight 92-octane unleaded gas from a Chevron station in southern California. It tested at 96.3 RON and 88.3 MON for an R+M/2 rating of 92.3, 0.3-oct. higher than the rating on the pump. To a second sample of Chevron 92 from the same station, the lab added “104 Octane Boost”. The octane of the gasoline modified with this booster was unchanged. The lab tested a third sample of Chevron 92 and NOS brand “Street Formula”, a MMT octane booster, mixed 1:170 (12-oz. bottle in 16 gal. of gas). The results were: 96.8 RON, 88.4 MON and 92.6 R+M/2, a measurable change but, clearly, as the MON went up only 0.1-oct, not a practical improvement. NOS’ most potent booster, “Racing Formula”, another MMT-based product, in Chevron 92, tested at 98.5 RON, 90.4 MON and 94.5 R+M/2, a credible but modest improvement.<p>Before we get farther into testing, we should advise the reader that some of the research for this article was done in 2001, just before a change in premium unleaded fuel in the western United States from 92-octane to 91-octane. Some of the testing done for this article was with 92-octane fuel, however, some additional testing and price research was done, later, with 91-octane fuel. We apologize for the confusion but, unfortunately, we had no control over it.<p>That NOS octane booster lab-tested reasonably well intrigued us enough to give it a practical test. We picked a 1995 ZR1. In hot weather, the ZR1’s LT5 engine, when run on premium unleaded pump gas, will detonate under high load and, thus, will have spark retard as a result of knock sensing by the engine computer. We demonstrated this by running the car on a Super Flow SF-840 “Auto-Dyn, dual-mode chassis dynamometer at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma, California while monitoring the engine controls data with a Vetronix Mastertech scan tester. The engine intake air temperature (IAT) was 108 degrees F. Between peak torque and peak power, the Mastertech showed 5-8 degrees spark retard on each of several dyno tests. <p>The car had 15 gallons of Chevron, premium unleaded in it when we added one bottle of NOS “Racing Formula”, drove it 5 miles to mix the booster thoroughly then put the car back on the Auto-Dyn. This time, in spite of the IAT climbing to 115°F, the Mastertech showed a maximum of two degrees retard and, on three of six passes, it read no spark retard at all. Run #5 was the best with power at the rear wheels up almost nine horsepower because the gasoline’s octane was, now, just high enough to tolerate full spark advance...."</I><p> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>so you're basically agreeing with me? Even a 2.5 octane boost would hardly be felt...
 

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Re: (s60rdood)

toulene and xylenes are some of the chemicals that we use in the lab to fix tissue to do histology on. when we handle these chemicals we double glove. they eat through latex gloves like woah. and they give you cancer. just a thought
 

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Re: (lax01)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>lax01</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>so you're basically agreeing with me? Even a 2.5 octane boost would hardly be felt...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not at all. I mix 92 and 101 @ 2:1 to hit 94.5-95 and it absolutely makes a big difference. That costs me about $12 more per tank but I have to go out of my way to get it. NOS Racing Formula is the same cost and far more convenient and would appear to be just as effective on 92.
 

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Re: (lax01)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>lax01</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as toulene has been known to eat through rubber fuel lines</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Umm, no. Toluene is in gas as it is. If gas won't eat the fuel lines, neither will toluene. Xylene is a different story, it will reak havok on plastic and rubber over time, I don't suggest using it even though it is 117 octane <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (nikhsub1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nikhsub1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Umm, no. Toluene is in gas as it is. If gas won't eat the fuel lines, neither will toluene. Xylene is a different story, it will reak havok on plastic and rubber over time, I don't suggest using it even though it is 117 octane <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Xylene is also a fractional portion of normal gasoline, just as toluene. Gas is a blend of <I>lots</I> of hydrocarbons (and other additives). Toluene and xylene are two of the aromatic hydrocarbons which, in various parts of the world, can compose 25% or more of the gasoline.<p>Fuel is absolutely blended for the regional temperature and altitude conditions. Toluene and xylene will not work as well in cold weather. How much and to what extent that might affect you, you'll have to try it and see. One major reason that unleaded aviation gas is a no no in cars is because it is blended for proper volitility at high altitude.<p>I've tried adding both toluene and xylene with the 91 p*sswater that passes for "premium" in CA. Each produced a quite noticable increase in power versus straight 91. I tracked down a local source of 100 octane unleaded pump gas, and I've not used either toluene or xylene since.<p>I agree with 23109VC:<p>Choice 1) 93+ at the pump<br>Choice 2) Blend 91 with 5-gal of 100 unleaded pump gas<br>Choice 3) Blend with toluene or xylene<p>Beyond that, I would not use octane booster with MMT, or whatever. They have some environmental issues as well as problems with coating the plugs.<p>If I could not blend, I'd probably run 91 for a month or so before I just threw in the towel and sold the car. I've been using the 100/91 blend exclusively for more than a year now, and I'm not going back. It is the most significant "mod" you can do if you live in 91 land.
 
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