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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just had an interesting conversation with a dealer today. I'm trying to sell my S60R on (for profit hopefully) and the dealer said that the R is a white elephant and that people would rather go for a T5 because there isn't much difference in performance and people who want a fast car want a hard ride. So he said the only difference between the T5 and R was the 4-C chassis and that nobody was prepared to pay £10,000 / $18000 more for the privellage of the Comfort button.<p>So basically hes saying that my S60R is not even worth as much as T5!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Is there any truth in what hes saying? He also went on to say that the new S40 holds it value more than the S60 and that I should consider a S40T5 as my next car and stay clear of the S60.<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So he said the only difference between the T5 and R was the 4-C chassis and that nobody was prepared to pay £10,000 / $18000 more for the privellage of the Comfort button.<p>So basically hes saying that my S60R is not even worth as much as T5!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Tell your dealer to learn his product. Where shall we start.....<p>1) R has AWD; T5 does not<br>2) R has better brakes<br>3) R has more horsepower <br>4) R has more standard features that are optional on T5<p>That's a quick snippet. I am sure that others will chime in with more.<p>And about that S40 resale comment, they depreciate hard as well. IMO, he's trying to screw you on both sides of the deal by low balling the R and hyping the S40.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Token)

Token,<p>Well, why don't you try driving a T5 and decide for yourself how close, or not, they are. <p>Unless you drive like an old lady (no offense to any old ladies on the forum!) I suspect you'll notice some important differences. Only you can decide if those differences are worth the price differential.<p>By the way, good luck on trying to sell a used volvo at a profit...that would be a tall order even for a brand with stellar resale value. But it sounds like the dealer is just trying to con you into giving him a great price on your trade-in. In the US anyway, you almost always do better selling it yourself rather than trading in. <p>****<br>(hah, just noticed what MagoonR wrote as I was writing my response...)
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (MagoonR)

You know for yourself the R has more to it than just the 4C.<p>IMHO the T5 (especially brand new) is a harder sale than the R. The average joes that just wants a nice comfortable car goes for the 2.5Ts or the 2.5TAWD. The people that want more performance go for the R, because like MagoonR said, the R comes standard with a bunch of stuff that would be an option in the T5.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Token)

Token,<p>There is a partial truth in this "opinion". An opinion which I share.<p>The T5 has often been the more sportive one, the R the luxury one.<p>The R is heavy, underpowered when comparing to how Volvo has marketed the R in the past, the 4C is in the way for people who want to use the R the way Volvo has marketed the R in the past, In Europe the R is overpriced, in the US a bargain. (Nice thing about the internet is that Euro people can see how Volvo is screwing the Euro R customer..) And the AWD is of no use in a warmer climate.<p>The R is a very nice car with nice luxury and a few special interior aspects which can't be found in the T5. A loaded T5 however will be no less compared to an R.<p>The new T5 engine is strong, uses the same turbo as the R and can be tuned to the same levels give or take 10HP compared to the R. At the same time it carries less weight.<p>The T5 showes some torquesteer. Sportive FWD drivers love torquesteer. The only thing missing from a T5 is a limited slip differential. No TRACKS can ever live up to an LSD.<p>Because of the lesser weight the brakes are OK for the T5. Before the R I have driven an S60T5 for a couple of years, 18" rims and a lot of tune to make is far stronger than the R with less effort and the brakes have always performed well and they gave better feel compared to the somewhat sluggish or lifeless R brakes.<p>The 4C is totally overhyped. I really hope Ford can help Volvo out in this department for the new model..<br>The concept is awesome, the results suck. Skyhook is OK if it gave a natural feel but it cuts the communication lines between car and driver. Advanced does the same and can't keep up with what is actually going on. <p>So, a T5 is certainly not a lesser car but the R has some mystique a T5 will never have.<br>Maybe because the R is basically a pool of wrong choices it makes the R what it is.<br>History shows that difficult car will be loved and very good cars forgotten. (Except the Mclaren F1)<br>The R is overpriced in Europe yes. The difference between the T5 and the R is way out of line. <br>Only when trading the R you as a cutomer will be the one paying twice, Volvo already cashed so not their concern. <p>
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Token)

An S40?????<br>Noo offense( some will be taken) but an S40 is like a Honda Civic in size.<br>The R and 40 are not even in the same ballpark. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Eric_H)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Eric_H</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An S40?????<br>Noo offense( some will be taken) but an S40 is like a Honda Civic in size.<br>The R and 40 are not even in the same ballpark. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actually....they are very similar in interior room according to the literature. Believe it...or not.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually....they are very similar in interior room according to the literature. Believe it...or not.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Yeah, but a 40 looks like a 60 that hasn't gone through puberty yet.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Believe it...or not.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I can't even <i>drive</i> an S40/V50 -- the pedals are too tight. Interesting, 'cause we also have 3 Honda-Acura products and there is <i>plenty</i> of room. Not doubting the literature, but gross interior space is one thing, useful interior space is another.<p>Since the S40 shares its platform with the Mazda3 and European Ford Focus -- this may be Ford design at work.<p>Since Volvo dropped the T5 from the V70 line iin the US, there really is no alternative to the V70R. According to KBB.COM, a used R does command a price premium over the T5 in the US, but less than I would have thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well I took a look at an S40 2.4 SE Sport and it looks the business. But when I sat inside, I felt the dashboard area was too high which meant I had to sit high up. <p>I think the S60's dash layout allows you to sit lower and still have good visibility. Anyhow I digress. <p>The dealer said he can only offer me the same value as a high-spec T5 for my R. So he said that it books in it at £9,000 / $16200.<p>How does that sound for a MY2004 S60R in Flash Green with Atacama with SatNav/Phone/TV and 35,000miles. $16200! <p>I don't know whether to cry or laugh.
 

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Re: (Johann)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johann</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That guy is screwing you.. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>And not even telling you that he loves you. Your S60R would trade for more than that over here.
 

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Re: (MagoonR)

It all depends what you want. When I got my T5 my final decision actually came down to color...which I sometimes regret, sometimes not. I wanted a blue exterior and blue interior car. That was not an option on the R at the time. The T5 came in a nautic blue exterior and split indigo cloth/grey and blue leather interior. I love the combo of my car. Would I like to have more power? Sure...who wouldn't? But 247 HP is pretty good. Now the R of course comes in two blue exterior colors...but the interior blue (nordkap) is not the greatest blue. I do like the nordkap floormats which I have in my T5. <p>The T5 even has a better engine from '05 on compared to my '04 so it's not a bad choice at all. But if you option it out, you're getting pretty close to an R price.
 

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Re: (soledoc)

I think it all depends on the guy walking through the door.<br>Someone will walk in looking for the R and be able & willing to drop dime.<p>However, <B>MANY MORE</B> will likely be walking in with a T5 budget although many of them <I>MAY</I> actually want the R.<br>Dealers take this in to consideration for sure, they like to sell lot's of cars but even more so, they like to <br><I>'MAX GROSS,'</I> on every unit.<p>It may just be a white elephant, but Barnum & Bailey knew that's what sells tickets and no doubt what Volvo was shooting for when R was on the delivery table. (Or abortion, depending on opinion I guess)<p>What you have to keep sight of is that the dealer will tell you anything to downgrade the R and build up the T5. It's his job!!!<br>He obviously <B>HAS</B> done his homework.<p>Will they turn around dolly up, put on the center of showroom floor and mark up the R to a stupendous amount? You damn skippy!!<br>They want every penny they can get for it, afterall, how often do you find a 'white elephant?'<p>That's the game.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Eric_H)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Eric_H</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An S40?????<br>Noo offense( some will be taken) but an S40 is like a Honda Civic in size.<br>The R and 40 are not even in the same ballpark. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hmm, you may want to rethink that statement....<p>--------------------- Honda Civic --- S60R --- S40<br>Front Headroom ----- 39.4 -------- 38.7 --- 38.9<br>Rear Legroom -------- 34.6 -------- 33.3 --- 34.4<p>You are right, the S40 and Civic have more Front headroom and more rear legroom than the R. Not even in the same ballpark... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>The R does have more shoulder room, but gosh, you gotta look at turning radius if you want a really wide track...<p>Turning diameter ---- 34.8 ------- 42.7 ---- 34.9<p>Surprised the Civic is roomier than your R??<p>To be honest, I would rather have a loaded S40 T5 AWD than an S60 T5. BSR has already released a complete Stage II kit, Filter, DP, Exhaust, PPC for the the S40 T5, looks sweet with the dual exhaust. Add that I bet you blow by an S60 T5, without the torque steer.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? ("R" Kelly)

Ok, I am surprised that this post made it this far without pointing out the following.<p>Dude, didn't you just buy this car LAST WEEK? Have you even taken delivery on it? <p>If you're going to buy a car and sell it right away, you're in for a big hit.<p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=57045" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=57045</A>
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yep I just got the car at what I thought was a steal of a price (£13700 / $22,000). Its a high-spec car with all the options except rear park assist. So I was hoping to sell it on for a bit of a profit and buy something smaller.<p>I thought I could get at least £16,000 / $28500 for it. This is because just 2.5 years ago, the car was worth £40,000 / $71,000.<p>I think I made a foolish mistake. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep I just got the car at what I thought was a steal of a price (£13700 / $22,000). Its a high-spec car with all the options except rear park assist. So I was hoping to sell it on for a bit of a profit and buy something smaller.<p>I thought I could get at least £16,000 / $28500 for it. This is because just 2.5 years ago, the car was worth £40,000 / $71,000.<p>I think I made a foolish mistake. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes you did my friend. JRL can probably steer you better, it seems to be his business, but buying cars to try to turn them and make a profit isn't going to work unless you buy them at auction. Otherwise, you're only going to break even or lose money. And any time you put miles on it, you're depreciating it further. There are a few exceptions, like Porsches, but very few.<p>My advice: if you can swing the payments, just drive it and enjoy it.
 

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Re: How much is an R really worth over a T5? (Token)

I had an '06 T5 loaner two weeks ago and while it was reasonably quick, I would have never bought that car. The T5 vs. Acura TL is an easy win for Acura. Little in the T5 looked or felt special or unique. I was surprised at how utilitarian it was...
 

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I'd rather have a T5 than an R. I was just checking out a T5 SE fresh in at Park Place Volvo a few days ago. Sticker was the same as the two Rs they had on the lot.
 
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