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Would you guys not even consider a CPO rental? At what mileage would it change your mind? 10k? 5k? 1k or less? lol
My 18 V60 was a CPO rental that had been in the Sixt rental fleet. It had about 15K miles and had been timely service ata Volvo dealership for the 10K service. The car was in good shape and did not look like it had been trashed. I have noticed that a lot of the used CPO Volvos come from rental fleets such as Sixt and Enterprise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
My 18 V60 was a CPO rental that had been in the Sixt rental fleet. It had about 15K miles and had been timely service ata Volvo dealership for the 10K service. The car was in good shape and did not look like it had been trashed. I have noticed that a lot of the used CPO Volvos come from rental fleets such as Sixt and Enterprise.
The one I was looking at was also a Sixt rental fleet with 13k miles. It is $3k cheaper than the next comparable listing I can find. Listing below:

 

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Now that I see the listing, it makes more sense. I see the low beam malfunction indicator is on. I bet someone cracked a head light and they pulled the bumper cover to replace it with a used one and didn't put the bumper back on right. The bumper part is likely no big deal. The headlights are expensive though and I'm not sure they can be reprogrammed.

It also did not get it's free 10k service.

So good thing you passed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Now that I see the listing, it makes more sense. I see the low beam malfunction indicator is on. I bet someone cracked a head light and they pulled the bumper cover to replace it with a used one and didn't put the bumper back on right. The bumper part is likely no big deal. The headlights are expensive though and I'm not sure they can be reprogrammed.

It also did not get it's free 10k service.

So good thing you passed.
Yeah I wonder why they didn’t take advantage of the 10k free service.
 

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There's a common saying: A rental car is the fastest car most people will ever drive.
No mention of them being stolen and being lived in by tweakers/opiate users . It happens quite often. That probably won't show on a Carfax, FWIW.

Ever see the movie The Other Guys? Rentals can be used for soup kitchens

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 

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Reading the dealer's "up front" disclaimers, this place seems hardly a step up from a buy here pay here lot. Selling cars people otherwise couldn't afford by picking up one's damaged in accidents and offloading them onto people longing to "show off". Then, tacking on a $1000 in unnecessary fees to further gouge customers who probably lack any credit worthiness. Most likely Sticking these same customers with 20% interest rates that border on usury.

Normal people with credit worthiness wouldn't set foot on this lot or pander to this dealer's ridiculous fee schedule. Let alone, touch a single vehicle here with a 10 foot pole.

Not only are rentals often abused, but service is neglected. Tech aptly pointed out this car didn't even get taken in for it's free 10K service. It's now 3000 miles passed....

.....$897 dealer fee? $175 electronic filing fee.

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What in the world. No, this place is a step DOWN from a buy here pay here. Wow.
Google Lumin Auto Group... Lots of reviews where this dealer "downplayed" the severity of an accident or tried to coverup damage. You can overlook a few bad reviews, but not dozens upon dozens complaining of the same problems.

I guess in the name of transparency, this dealer is OPEN and HONEST about selling wrecked cars. Caveat Emptor about how "wrecked" or "damaged" the car was prior to the point of resale.
 

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Reading the dealer's "up front" disclaimers, this place seems hardly a step up from a buy here pay here lot. Selling cars people otherwise couldn't afford by picking up one's damaged in accidents and offloading them onto people longing to "show off". Then, tacking on a $1000 in unnecessary fees to further gouge customers who probably lack any credit worthiness. Most likely Sticking these same customers with 20% interest rates that border on usury.

Normal people with credit worthiness wouldn't set foot on this lot or pander to this dealer's ridiculous fee schedule. Let alone, touch a single vehicle here with a 10 foot pole.

Not only are rentals often abused, but service is neglected. Tech aptly pointed out this car didn't even get taken in for it's free 10K service. It's now 3000 miles passed....

.....$897 dealer fee? $175 electronic filing fee.

View attachment 124850

View attachment 124852
And according to the CarFax reports, they do have cars that were totaled and/or have structural damage.
 

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And according to the CarFax reports, they do have cars that were totaled and/or have structural damage.
This dealer is a "wrecking ball" dealership. They seem to pick up accident cars and flip them for good money to people wanting to enter a brand, but unable to afford one with a clean history. A risky proposition since you never know the extent of damage the car suffered in prior accident (minor, structural, frame, etc). A huge risk to "own a nice car" if you ask me.
 

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This dealer is a "wrecking ball" dealership. They seem to pick up accident cars and flip them for good money to people wanting to enter a brand, but unable to afford one with a clean history. A risky proposition since you never know the extent of damage the car suffered in prior accident (minor, structural, frame, etc). A huge risk to "own a nice car" if you ask me.
It is possible to do a Google search on the VIN in order to see if it went through a COPART or IAAI auction. These two auction houses generally deal with insurance auctions and salvaged vehicles. Unfortunately, with title washing, it is possible to hide a vehicle that has been totaled if the appropriate due diligence checks have not been completed. The NCIB runs a searchable database to catch vehicles that have been totaled by insurance companies. NCIB is the National Insurance Crime Bureau.
 

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It is possible to do a Google search on the VIN in order to see if it went through a COPART or IAAI auction. These two auction houses generally deal with insurance auctions and salvaged vehicles. Unfortunately, with title washing, it is possible to hide a vehicle that has been totaled if the appropriate due diligence checks have not been completed. The NCIB runs a searchable database to catch vehicles that have been totaled by insurance companies. NCIB is the National Insurance Crime Bureau.
The dealer makes no beef they sell accident vehicles. Look above. Everything short of Total Loss, if you're to believe the dealer's marketing disclaimer. Pretty much, if the car isn't written off, this dealer buys and sells it. Again, people with poor credit histories, and an inability to buy a new car of their choosing, end up at this place.

You're right, cars are easily passed through multiple states in order to wash titles. After Hurricanes and Natural Disasters, flood and salvage cars literally "flood the market". They always tell you to be on the lookout for musty smell and other telltale signs.

Anyone that considers a car from this place is entering "Caveat Emptor" territory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I am now considering a fully loaded last-gen S60 instead (AWD with the 5 cylinder engine) and just wait for a few years until I can get a used SPA S60 with the Android system.
 

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Not to be a Debbie Downer, but it looks like you're looking at cars around the $20K mark. Is that because you don't want to spend more than that, or because your budget doesn't allow for you to spend more than that? If it's the latter, I'm not sure buying a luxury (premium?) European car with potentially expensive maintenance/repair costs and uneven reliability scores is the most prudent decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but it looks like you're looking at cars around the $20K mark. Is that because you don't want to spend more than that, or because your budget doesn't allow for you to spend more than that? If it's the latter, I'm not sure buying a luxury (premium?) European car with potentially expensive maintenance/repair costs and uneven reliability scores is the most prudent decision.
You are not at all and raised a fair point. I am looking for a compact size vehicle, and picked the S60 primarily for safety reasons due to the heavier weight and smaller dimensions, to use over the next couple of years, potentially longer, as we move to a bigger city later this year where parking is something to be conscious about. I was and am still considering the last-gen P3, that's why I have set the budget for those to be around $20k. I am willing to spend up to $35k for the newer SPA S60 and closer to 40k for a V60CC but they are relatively new so: 1. have not peaked in depreciation yet and 2. about to get the updated Android system. I would definitely keep the SPA vehicle for a long time and don't want to regret not waiting for the new Android system with built-in google map so the only way I would jump on one now, as opposed to waiting for a few more years, is if there was a great deal, hence this post :)

But so far, it seems that this option is not at all a great idea so I am falling back on my original plan of spending less on a last-gen S60 and wait 3-4 years until I can get a CPO S60 or better yet, a V60CC with the new Android system, assuming it will be available by then.
 

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You are not at all and raised a fair point. I am looking for a compact size vehicle, and picked the S60 primarily for safety reasons due to the heavier weight and smaller dimensions, to use over the next couple of years, potentially longer, as we move to a bigger city later this year where parking is something to be conscious about. I was and am still considering the last-gen P3, that's why I have set the budget for those to be around $20k. I am willing to spend up to $35k for the newer SPA S60 and closer to 40k for a V60CC but they are relatively new so: 1. have not peaked in depreciation yet and 2. about to get the updated Android system. I would definitely keep the SPA vehicle for a long time and don't want to regret not waiting for the new Android system with built-in google map so the only way I would jump on one now, as opposed to waiting for a few more years, is if there was a great deal, hence this post :)

But so far, it seems that this option is not at all a great idea so I am falling back on my original plan of spending less on a last-gen S60 and wait 3-4 years until I can get a CPO S60 or better yet, a V60CC with the new Android system, assuming it will be available by then.
Well some friendly advice that may be a middle of the road suggestion. The New SPA cars started in 2019. So you an find them used, but right now both the new and used car markets are garnering above average pricing.

So if you are looking to step down and save some money, maybe shoot for a 2017 or 2018 S60. And to get android auto, there's a $300 solution. There's an aftermarket retrofit that people here have said very good things about and works alongside your existing Infotainment!. Android Auto for P3 Volvos. Click that link. The only downside is you won't have a touch screen. The upside of a 2017 or 2018 is I believe the 2017 (and know 100% the 18s) have the 4G Lte Modem. So you won't have to worry about the 3g phase out. You'll be able to use Android Auto. And you can drive a P3 for much cheaper at the moment than an SPA will cost. And down the road, pick up an SPA car when the market becomes more reasonable.

The reason I don't say 15.5 or 2016 is these are oil consumption years and also lack the 4G LTE Modem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Well some friendly advice that may be a middle of the road suggestion. The New SPA cars started in 2019. So you an find them used, but right now both the new and used car markets are garnering above average pricing.

So if you are looking to step down and save some money, maybe shoot for a 2017 or 2018 S60. And to get android auto, there's a $300 solution. There's an aftermarket retrofit that people here have said very good things about and works alongside your existing Infotainment!. Android Auto for P3 Volvos. Click that link. The only downside is you won't have a touch screen. The upside of a 2017 or 2018 is I believe the 2017 (and know 100% the 18s) have the 4G Lte Modem. So you won't have to worry about the 3g phase out. You'll be able to use Android Auto. And you can drive a P3 for much cheaper at the moment than an SPA will cost. And down the road, pick up an SPA car when the market becomes more reasonable.

The reason I don't say 15.5 or 2016 is these are oil consumption years and also lack the 4G LTE Modem.
Woah, lots of good info! I thought the oil consumption and piston ring issues only impacted the new 4 cylinder drive-e engines.
1. Are you saying that the old five-cylinder engines were impacted as well? I believe 2016 was the last year that the I5 was used in the S60 and am surprised it would have oil consumption issues in its final years.
2. Would 2017+ drive-e engines be more reliable in the long run than the old I5?
3. Since there is a TJ for the piston ring/oil consumption issue, wouldn't that be covered by the dealership for free? If yes, is that still a bad thing to worry about or is the 2017 engines without that issue would still be better overall?

Is the 4G LTE modem required to retrofit apple carplay? or just in car wifi because I don't think I would care for that. Retrofit apple carplay for $300 sounds awesome though.
 

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Woah, lots of good info! I thought the oil consumption and piston ring issues only impacted the new 4 cylinder drive-e engines.
1. Are you saying that the old five-cylinder engines were impacted as well? I believe 2016 was the last year that the I5 was used in the S60 and am surprised it would have oil consumption issues in its final years.
2. Would 2017+ drive-e engines be more reliable in the long run than the old I5?
3. Since there is a TJ for the piston ring/oil consumption issue, wouldn't that be covered by the dealership for free? If yes, is that still a bad thing to worry about or is the 2017 engines without that issue would still be better overall?

Is the 4G LTE modem required to retrofit apple carplay? or just in car wifi because I don't think I would care for that. Retrofit apple carplay for $300 sounds awesome though.
I think you were replying to my post in your other thread.

Yes, the older five cylinder engines were impacted, through their production run to 2016. Why that is I have no idea though I know that most manufacturers have tinkered with ring designs to provide less friction which leads to better fuel economy, though sometimes that doesn't work out as we've seen.

I think it's a little early to tell if the Drive E will be more reliable than the five cylinder. Thus far, after getting past the early '15.5-'16 problems I have not read of any issues on the newer motors, but again, it's early.

The TJ is not a recall - it's simply direction to dealerships as to how to repair a particular issue that has a higher rate of incidence. If your car is out of warranty there is no obligation on Volvo's part to address this. Some folks have been able to get some amount of goodwill but if you're buying a used car with a problem I wouldn't count on any goodwill.

Again, all things being equal, I'd probably pick a 2017 or newer Drive E but that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I think you were replying to my post in your other thread.

Yes, the older five cylinder engines were impacted, through their production run to 2016. Why that is I have no idea though I know that most manufacturers have tinkered with ring designs to provide less friction which leads to better fuel economy, though sometimes that doesn't work out as we've seen.

I think it's a little early to tell if the Drive E will be more reliable than the five cylinder. Thus far, after getting past the early '15.5-'16 problems I have not read of any issues on the newer motors, but again, it's early.

The TJ is not a recall - it's simply direction to dealerships as to how to repair a particular issue that has a higher rate of incidence. If your car is out of warranty there is no obligation on Volvo's part to address this. Some folks have been able to get some amount of goodwill but if you're buying a used car with a problem I wouldn't count on any goodwill.

Again, all things being equal, I'd probably pick a 2017 or newer Drive E but that's just me.
Ah yes, I have two threads for two different reasons so it's a bit confusing :)

And I am thinking the same so will be looking for a 2017 model now. I am so glad I made this thread or else I wouldn't have known!
 
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