[04lss]

Hi All,
Getting ready for stage 2, and it being a rather expensive set of mods, im curious if anyone here has stage 2 from Hilton, or if anyone has any Hilton tuning experience in general.

1.How does the tuning process work? are you handed a file and told to go play, or is it iterative with data logging and subsequent tunes.

2. How much of a difference did the tune make? Im especially interested in stage 2 tune owners. Is it worth dropping $25-3500 on? Is it going to be a difference, (combined with having just installed an intake and DP) where I get in the car and go WOW, or is it more tame?

Im trying to manage my expectations but for 3k id really like the car to be in a different league from a stock RD. Based on dyno figures, its supposed to be on par with a polestar, with the transmission deficit, I imagine it should still be a big difference over the R design.

Can anyone shed light on what to expect?

 

[UTS60RDESIGN]

Also interested in Stage 2 tuning options/reviews.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Talk to TunedXC60. He is currently running custom Hilton software and is familiar with the process of getting various maps, logging, and tweaking his maps accordingly. You should read his build thread which chronicals the process, on the XC60 subforum.

 

[Bunnspeed]

...but if anyone has additional S60-specific input I'd be very interested in more info here, too!

 

[04lss]

Talk to TunedXC60. He is currently running custom Hilton software and is familiar with the process of getting various maps, logging, and tweaking his maps accordingly. You should read his build thread which chronicals the process, on the XC60 subforum.

Thanks for the suggestion, however he was the first person I reached out to. He noted that since he is the first one with his setup (big turbo) to get tuning form Hilton, that his process may be unique, as Hilton had to develop the tune. Additionally he noted that he went straight from TDI Tune box, to the stage 3 tune with big turbo, bypassing the stage 2 tune entirely.

I got good feedback but I really want something specific to stage 2, whether it be from Hilton, Rica, or whomever.

 

[04lss]

Given some of the answers ive gotten, and some PMs, it almost seems like I am going to be one of the pioneers for tuning the s60. (someone please correct me if im wrong)
Other than maybe sir_harmony, and CMOD_R, and of course Tuned_xc60 for the xc60 side of things.

That's kind of Bittersweet, Since its exciting being a pioneer, but without a lot of data before you, its a risk.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Given some of the answers ive gotten, and some PMs, it almost seems like I am going to be one of the pioneers for tuning the s60. (someone please correct me if im wrong)
Other than maybe sir_harmony, and CMOD_R, and of course Tuned_xc60 for the xc60 side of things.

That's kind of Bittersweet, Since its exciting being a pioneer, but without a lot of data before you, its a risk.

Yes, it is a risk, and another risk may be whether it might fail a diagnostic inspection depending on if the Hilton tuned ecu plays nice with your state inspection station's computers. I have no idea if Hilton leaves all necessary monitors intact, or if the current iterations of diagnostic tests will pick up on your tune and fail you even if you are running the necessary monitors, or if ever more stringent tests will fail you in the future even if it passes today. Ideally you'll want feedback from someone in your state who can confirm that their tune passed the current inspection. Obviously given the tiny number of people running these tunes, it's quite possible that you'd be the only P3 guy running the tune in your state. At the very least I'd want to talk with Hilton to confirm that they can put you back to stock before inspection or if you fail, and then restore your tune afterward.

You could also get the easily reversible TDI box as a placeholder and run that while waiting for more Hilton early adopters to come online. Run that for a year while you do more research and then sell it for close to what you bought it for. You might take a $50-100 loss but that might be worth a year of improved performance even if it's not a fully evolved tuning solution. I'm still not 100% convinced the TDI box is safe, given the very small number of people running them and the rather primitive way of getting power (fool the computer into cranking up the boost!) but no one has blown up yet, so that's somewhat reassuring, lol. I suspect these ecus have a lot of built in safeguards to prevent the 3.0T from grenading because I've heard of very few catastrophic failures on these cars.

 

[04lss]

Yes, it is a risk, and another risk may be whether it might fail a diagnostic inspection depending on if the Hilton tuned ecu plays nice with your state inspection station's computers. I have no idea if Hilton leaves all necessary monitors intact, or if the current iterations of diagnostic tests will pick up on your tune and fail you even if you are running the necessary monitors, or if ever more stringent tests will fail you in the future even if it passes today. Ideally you'll want feedback from someone in your state who can confirm that their tune passed the current inspection. Obviously given the tiny number of people running these tunes, it's quite possible that you'd be the only P3 guy running the tune in your state. At the very least I'd want to talk with Hilton to confirm that they can put you back to stock before inspection or if you fail, and then restore your tune afterward.

You could also get the easily reversible TDI box as a placeholder and run that while waiting for more Hilton early adopters to come online. Run that for a year while you do more research and then sell it for close to what you bought it for. You might take a $50-100 loss but that might be worth a year of improved performance even if it's not a fully evolved tuning solution. I'm still not 100% convinced the TDI box is safe, given the very small number of people running them and the rather primitive way of getting power (fool the computer into cranking up the boost!) but no one has blown up yet, so that's somewhat reassuring, lol. I suspect these ecus have a lot of built in safeguards to prevent the 3.0T from grenading because I've heard of very few catastrophic failures on these cars.

Thanks for the feedback.

Im not worried about state inspections, my father is a state inspector here. where I live there is no requirement for emissions testing, and they absolutely do NOT plug in to the cars computer. Basically, you just need to have the appearance of having a catalytic converter and for the car to be safe (aka no bad ball joints, good tire tread, brakes , lights, horn etc).

As for the tune box... I had one . After putting 150 miles on it, my car was actually slower. It could be because the car was stock, but as advertised, its ment to work on a stock car. One of my threads has my saga on it. I ended up returning it to Viva getting my swaybar, and k&N drop in.

Im willing to be a guinea pig, as long as its not insane. Stage 2 should be fairly safe if its only netting 25-40 whp and 30-60 ftlbs of torque. (more worried about the 60 ftlbs)

based on a recent KBB inquiry and looking at my loan statement. Im stuck with this car for a while because of negative equity from my ford Taurus SHO (long story)
So I might as well pour money into making it acceptably fast. Bonus factor that its a total sleeper, and id be pioneering something rather than doing something everyone and their brother has seen.

 

[BIG ACH]

Thanks for the feedback.

Im not worried about state inspections, my father is a state inspector here. where I live there is no requirement for emissions testing, and they absolutely do NOT plug in to the cars computer. Basically, you just need to have the appearance of having a catalytic converter and for the car to be safe (aka no bad ball joints, good tire tread, brakes , lights, horn etc).

As for the tune box... I had one . After putting 150 miles on it, my car was actually slower. It could be because the car was stock, but as advertised, its ment to work on a stock car. One of my threads has my saga on it. I ended up returning it to Viva getting my swaybar, and k&N drop in.

Im willing to be a guinea pig, as long as its not insane. Stage 2 should be fairly safe if its only netting 25-40 whp and 30-60 ftlbs of torque. (more worried about the 60 ftlbs)

based on a recent KBB inquiry and looking at my loan statement. Im stuck with this car for a while because of negative equity from my ford Taurus SHO (long story)
So I might as well pour money into making it acceptably fast. Bonus factor that its a total sleeper, and id be pioneering something rather than doing something everyone and their brother has seen.

It's not acceptably fast with the Polestar tune? lol

Interested to see how things go for you! Good luck. On another note, how do you like the S60 vs the Taurus SHO?

I came from a Charger RT and the R-Design just feels a lot more nimble and agile!

 

[Bunnspeed]

It's not acceptably fast with the Polestar tune? lol

Imo, no, it is not. It's decently quick in certain situations but stymies actual measurable performance in when and how it is willing to deliver power. Plus the Polestar tune puts a cap on the car being able to respond favorably to future mods, essentially preventing the car from making much additional power no matter how much additional hardware you throw at the car. My minimal improvements at the drag strip following the addition of a downpipe and FMIC bear that out when my car remained essentially the same compared with when it was stock with just the P* optimization. These cars should be capable of running 12s and I just don't see that happening with the mild P* tune more concerned with protecting parts than delivering big boy performance (intentionally bogging at the launch, short-shifting below redline, delivering slow and mushy shifts, torque-limiting at launch and in gears 1-2, etc.

 

[04lss]

I agree with bunnspeed. The car is supposed to be the competitor to the S4 and 335i. If i could go back to before i bought the SHO id absolutely buy the 335i i was looking at.
4k worth of mods, to gain 30whp is insane. I just happen to be crazy. I want a car that people go "Holy SH$%%" When i hit the gas. the 2 times my taurus put down 80% of what it was supposed to i had that reaction, never from the volvo.

This next bit is long, but explains why I have the power goals I do, on a car not really fit for them. If you Dont want a wall of text. The TLDR is : loved the ford when it worked, but it never worked. Bought it tuned (didnt know) never made full power, had issues, volvo was my get out of jail card. Text below is as much an angry rant, as it is a story.

Now, the story of the Taurus....

I've committed to a text wall so ill start with background. I got a new job last year around march and realized I wanted a project car with potential, embarrass mustangs potential.
I had a few pre-reqs. Sub 5.5 0-60, modability, etc. On the list first was a g37x. Had one as a rental a few years ago, and the memory was better than reality. Test drove a 335i at the same dealership and fell in love 11k, 100k miles, clean, good shape etc. Decided to test drive a few more, make sure i wanted it. Decided to drive a taurus SHO, after having looked up the tuned performance. (0-60 in 4 seconds flat, with only $600 in mods with more headroom).
Drove the car, loved the size, the brown interior, and I was done. Bought it that night like an idiot. Due to my bank being financed the deal wasnt finished until the next day. On the drive home i noticed the adaptive Cruise control was failing etc. Being bought AS is, i was SOL so when i returned i bought the Ford extended warranty that covered the car bumper to bumper.

The car also has a hard shift into second like slamming, before you guys say anything about the test drive, it was back roads, I was driving the car hard to see if its what i wanted, and the cruise control only failed when there was a car in front of you.
Im not worried, I essentially have a factory warranty. Well it took the dealership a month and a half, with me fighting them constantly (2-3 calls a week) to get it activated. Mainly because the finance manager put it in wrong, ford rejected it, and he didnt want to bother with it. They started diverting my phone calls to a dead line when I called. I know this because I had a friend call, and he got immediately connected. I wasn't a nuisance mind you, i waited the amount of time they told me to for it to be active. I waited the additional amounts of time requested etc. Finally after a few calls to ford corporate and the manger. they got it active. (Keep in mind, i had a car that was basically broken, and their incompetence was keeping me from getting it fixed. ) During this time i also had some stuff on my buyers aggreement taken care of, naimely a bad wheel bearing. except finance "Lost" that part of the document. The only thing that saved me was my sales guy remembering it was part of the deal. ( they screwed me out of fixing my Oil trap on the volvo later by not having the docs and only finding them after the 30 day period expired. )

Finally get the warranty confirmed and take it to a local dealer, for the trans, cruise control, and low oil warning, when it was full. Dealer gives me a call, apparently the car had been in a sever accident and they pieced it back together. I knew it had been in one, but carfax noted no structural damage. The Cruise radar had all of its mounts broken and was ZIP TIED to the car. Which is why it kept failing. Warranty wont cover collision damage. The trans is messing up because of a damaged wiring harness from the accident... Really peeved here, no covereage. Oil issue gets fixed, pay 300$ in diagnostics and Deductibles Get quoted 5 k to fix it all. Go back to the Selling dealer fuming. Tells me to bring it back, he will do what he can, and we can work something out. Have it towed from the one dealer 45 miles to this one. (thanks nationwide) Unbeknownst to me, dealer one reflashed the ECU, And the car had actually been tuned before i bought it. (never did a sub 5.6 0-60 and 5.2 was stock ) Well the reflashed ECU wouldnt work with a 3 bar map. The car would bog have no power, and barely run (keep that in mind).

Leckner ford (seller) takes it lets their mechanic drive it around. He says there's nothing wrong with it, he even drove it 100 miles round trip......
They also told me there is no issue with the wiring harness. I get the car back, realized its F&*^* and drive it home seething mad. realize what happened with some forum help and ordered a stock MAP from rock auto. I call the manager and raise Kain, for them letting me even drive the car in that shape. Much less telling me it was fine, besides a faulty sensor. Car had been doing something else where it would bog down at low speed and act like it lost 100hp. I had my father who is a ASE master tech look at it. Because one dealer said the harness was bad, one said it was fine. I wanted independent verification. Harness ... was fine. Bogging issue is getting worse so i take the car to A 3rd dealer. Have them diagnose it. Explain the situation, they confirm on paper that the harness is fine. The trans issue, well i find out the frame of the car is bent and they are blaming that. They also note the car is leaking fluid from the transfer case. (of course). As for the bogging they blame a fualty turbo. They wont warrant that because the IC looks to have been glued together (it hadn't). The told me the Cats were clogged and because the exhaust was aftermarket no warranty. They said this because of an O2 code the car was throwing do to being de-tuned with highflow cats

So i had my father pull it apart in exchange for a car i was selling him. No oil in the cats, no oil from the turbo. Dealer wont refund because of computer code.
Now I had been on the phone with ford corporate over a dozen times, id called the BBB, talked to the state police because they inspected the car without a front license plate (illegal) and talked to the dealer board because they kept certain paperwork. Nothing worked. Finally im on the phone trying to cancel my warranty and i get someone interested in helping. She suggest i call the dealer, and ask if they will buy the car back, if i take something else off their lot. At this point no one knows whats wrong with the car, 3 ford dealers, and the best diagnostician i know, along with the forums are stumped. I just want out of this catastrophy that ive sunk almost $1500 in. Call dealer manager tell him its the suggestion of ford corporate he agrees. 3 cars i want to test drive. Volvo is #3. Favorite but hesitant because listed an accident and didnt want to deal with that again. Test drive a maxima ... Car fax later said it was a Rental car. Thing was scratched up. I could rock the driver seat side to side, and the steering was really off and jittery. The worst part... Put my foot down and i yawned, darned CVT. Get back ask to test drive the Hyundai genesis, "You dont wanna drive that ... xyz is wrong." Ask to test drive some other car. "its in the shop" . Screw it let me drive the volvo. Nice interior, hitting the gas pushed me back in the seat, and it drove well. best option so i bought it. Knowing full well i was stuck with it as is. Dealer did some shifty stuff with the Maintenance contract, 3k for full maintenance for 30k miles, but it actually only covered oil changes (another story) They "mailed" my we owe off so they didnt have to fix the squeeking that turned out to be the oiltrap. Told me not to worry about the down payment. Then when i came back to return the ford they wouldnt give me my jetta back until i paid it. they said i "Miss understood" They even made me drive the limping ford 100 miles to go to the bank. (they had the key to the jetta). I asked the guy, what would you do if i used my spare and took the car... you dont have legal claim to it, and you have the Ford, id be back before you could file any claim against me. and he started stammering as i walked out the door. I was and AM over them. Most recently i got the maintenance contract canceled after 4 tries, i had to go up there and threaten legal action. I also demanded all of my paper work that i never got, found the we owe and went straight to the manager. explained the shop refused to fix the issue because i didn't have it, and it was his fault i didn't have it. He told me Past 30 days its not his problem, and i basically accused him of purposefully hiding the documents, incompetence, and running an underhanded business. Because they didnt do their job right i got screwed. Havent been back since.

Oh, everything that happened with the ford, happened between purchase in early June, and sale in mid September.

So coming from a busted taurus, the volvo is nice. It definitely is more stable, handles better, but doesnt pull like the ford, especially when it was tuned and running half way.I think its faster, but the low end grunt isnt there, and the 1st gear launch in the ford was freaky, its sad in the volvo. Had the ford worked i would have loved it. But the volvo works, consistently, and id never be able to autocross the ford. If i could do it again? id buy the BMW its everything the volvo tried to be, but done right.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Wow, that is the shadiest dealership behavior I've ever heard of. They literally found a way to make you grab your ankles at every possible opportunity to do so, and strategically added as much legwork as possible to every step in the hopes of wearing you down. Selling you a trashed modified car, having you buy a warranty to handle its lack of reliability due to having hidden damage, and then not honoring that warranty because the car was trashed and modified. Just wow. Awful. I hope you made it your mission to give them as much bad press as possible. Be the karma that comes back to bite them in the end.

 

[04lss]

Wow, that is the shadiest dealership behavior I've ever heard of. They literally found a way to make you grab your ankles at every possible opportunity to do so, and strategically added as much legwork as possible to every step in the hopes of wearing you down. Selling you a trashed modified car, having you buy a warranty to handle its lack of reliability due to having hidden damage, and then not honoring that warranty because the car was trashed and modified. Just wow. Awful. I hope you made it your mission to give them as much bad press as possible. Be the karma that comes back to bite them in the end.

Yeah, i tell everyone to avoid them. ive written bad reviews on google, etc. Honestly that, and my 2006 fusion (spend 2k fixing it the first year i had it in 2013) Are the reason that i was upset to see the FOMOCO label on our transmissions.
Unmodified sho could be 5-600hp for 5k... Im hoping.... That with big turbo and methanol, i could come "close" to 400 whp. since stage 2 should have the car at 300.

 

[04lss]

Wow, that is the shadiest dealership behavior I've ever heard of. They literally found a way to make you grab your ankles at every possible opportunity to do so, and strategically added as much legwork as possible to every step in the hopes of wearing you down. Selling you a trashed modified car, having you buy a warranty to handle its lack of reliability due to having hidden damage, and then not honoring that warranty because the car was trashed and modified. Just wow. Awful. I hope you made it your mission to give them as much bad press as possible. Be the karma that comes back to bite them in the end.

There was also the questionable legal shenanigans they pulled when i financed the volvo. "my friend is VP at your bank, looking at xyz he is pushing it through" Ok cool. But then i see the cost for the warranty and maintenance and ask to cancel them because they were insane. "well... my buddy didnt want to put a long term loan on a 12 unless we had a warranty etc ..." At the time i just wanted out of the ford, and figured id cancel them later.
Come to find out it was completely illegal, Bank confirmed it would never play into a decision, and another finance manager at another ford dealer, who was helping me sort my maintenance stuff told me it was completely illegal.
If i had the money, and solid proof i would have sued them, but I didnt.
Because of negative equity, the warranty and what i lost before the maintenance was canceled. Im about 8-10k underwater on the car. So again, No selling it for something else. Just gotta mod it as far as i can. Because D@&$^ i want my low 12 second car.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Dayum, what a crummy bunch of dickholes. Wow. But not surprising, sadly. Scum like this are all too common in the car sales world, and the reason people are deeply distrustful of car salesmen.

Nevertheless, allow me to sound like an old man and ask you, given your automotive debts, if you are willing to risk possibly (or even likely) grenading your transmission in your pursuit of low 12s? Sheeeit, I blew up my 30,000 mile trans right after I ran a best of 13.1 on a nearly stock car. These transmissions have the very real potential to break, and I don't know how long yours will last if you continue to autox with it and push its power levels well past stock. Do you have $5,000 in the bank, ready to go on a moment's notice, if your trans pops 6 months from now? If not, perhaps you should consider a less risky state of tune. If you have the money and really DGAF, then have at it!

 

[04lss]

Dayum, what a crummy bunch of dickholes. Wow. But not surprising, sadly. Scum like this are all too common in the car sales world, and the reason people are deeply distrustful of car salesmen.

Nevertheless, allow me to sound like an old man and ask you, given your automotive debts, if you are willing to risk possibly (or even likely) grenading your transmission in your pursuit of low 12s? Sheeeit, I blew up my 30,000 mile trans right after I ran a best of 13.1 on a nearly stock car. These transmissions have the very real potential to break, and I don't know how long yours will last if you continue to autox with it and push its power levels well past stock. Do you have $5,000 in the bank, ready to go on a moment's notice, if your trans pops 6 months from now? If not, perhaps you should consider a less risky state of tune. If you have the money and really DGAF, then have at it!

Honestly,
Im not going to be able to just slap another trans in if it fails It will probably take me a little while. I can and will do the work myself, and probably buy used. However, i am under an aftermarket warranty for 16k more miles. that will let me use whatever shop i want. The only really telling part of the car would be the intake, which would be easy enough to swap back.

Really im going to be sticking stage 2 for a while, low 12s is a distant goal. Ive also been paying close attention to Tuned_xc60. By the time im ready to go big turbo, either he will have grenaded his trans or proven that with reasonable driving its capable.

To your point about grenading a trans, I dont do anything more than a 10% throttle brakeboost in 1st for a few seconds at most. Most of the time im already moving when i hit the car. Most of my aggressive acceleration occurs 20 mph and up.

At the end of the day though, the reason i bough a second car, is because i wanted something to make fast. Anything less, is me wasting my car payment each month. (personal opinion)

 

[NorthwestMoose]

Any updates here gents? Anyone else pull the trigger on stage 2 or stage 3?

Did we ever figure out how the gent in Canada with the actual factory polestar turbo on his motor got tuned to take advantage of the power?

 

[duty]

a shame this thread died

 

[NorthwestMoose]

Can we get a list of folks running stage 2 or stage 3 tunes on their T6 and condense their experiences into a single thread?

Other than Connor's S60 at Viva and TunedXc60's stage 3, I don't know of any...

 

[duty]

Can we get a list of folks running stage 2 or stage 3 tunes on their T6 and condense their experiences into a single thread?

Other than Connor's S60 at Viva and TunedXc60's stage 3, I don't know of any...

i agree !!