[V50_M66]

After one of those "We will buy your car!" emails from a local dealer turned into some market research, it turns out that after 2 years and almost 40k miles, my '21 Kia Forte (base 6MT) is worth about what I paid for it new. As such, it sparked a search for replacements to see if it would be worth selling and replacing.

In said research, I've found quite a few super high mileage SPA S90s for sale for far cheaper than they were only a few years ago, and being that I have some experience with the platform and love my mom's '20 V60CC, especially on the highway, it has caught my interest.

As such, would a 200k+ mile S90 be a good, reliable daily to replace my Forte? Anyone have experience with high miles on these cars, or thoughts on the S90 as a daily in general or anything to look for in these cars?

I know to avoid up to MY16 Drive-E engines due to oil burning concerns (which shouldn't be a concern as far as I can tell for the S90 being that they started as a MY17), and to seek out a '19+ car for the better infotainment and to be able to disable stop-start. I'd also seek out a T5 for reliability reasons, lower upfront cost, and better gas mileage, and I'd obviously look the car over before purchase and search for one with solid maintenance history.

I do quite like my Forte, as it's fun around town with the 6 speed and handles great, but currently, I find myself doing a lot of long-haul highway driving and the Kia, while reliable, is loud and buzzy on the highway and pretty slow at higher speeds, and I have my V70 as my fun car anyway, so I was thinking a high-mileage S90 could be the ticket for a no-cost upgrade for my current daily.

Thoughts?

 

[Wayne T5]

Interesting question. You won't find too many datapoints of S90's that have done those miles aside from the random "when I was in Europe the taxis were V90's and they had 200k on them" posts. I voted "Probably Not" just based on too many unknowns. It may be absolutely fine or it may turn out to be a money pit.

 

[SilverStreak177]

Finally scrounged up a picture.

^ not mine, obviously. Probably yes. Depends highly on maintenance records.

 

[BenjaminD]

Seems like a decent idea to me, especially as I'm partial to the S90. The SPA T5s seem to be incredibly reliable. Good luck in your search!! Let us know what you decide.

 

[SilverStreak177]

^ also that picture was from four years ago. If that car's still on the road, it must have at least double the mileage if it's still being driven at the same rate.

 

[V50_M66]

Interesting question. You won't find too many datapoints of S90's that have done those miles aside from the random "when I was in Europe the taxis were V90's and they had 200k on them" posts. I voted "Probably Not" just based on too many unknowns. It may be absolutely fine or it may turn out to be a money pit.

That's about what I have seen too, hence the question. They do seem to have the potential to get expensive quickly if something goes wrong, but who knows if that's going to happen.

Finally scrounged up a picture.
View attachment 188375

^ not mine, obviously. Probably yes. Depends highly on maintenance records.

That's pretty impressive. What did the owner have to say about their experience over that many miles?

Seems like a decent idea to me, especially as I'm partial to the S90. The SPA T5s seem to be incredibly reliable. Good luck in your search!! Let us know what you decide.

Just from some reading, it does seem like the T5s are pretty bulletproof. I'd much rather have a V90 or especially a V60, but for the price some people are asking for those cars, an S90 with some miles on it can be almost half the asking of even a high mileage SPA wagon. Thank you! Will do.

 

[SilverStreak177]

That's pretty impressive. What did the owner have to say about their experience over that many miles?

Apart from warrantied piston rings (obviously), I was surprised to hear it had only undergone regular maintenance and had experienced a clogged sunroof drain pipe. Apparently the previous car (P3 XC70) had had a ton of electrical issues (which does seem like a fluke, but regardless it is what it is). Several similar reports from other drivers, along with having had the rental V90 for several weeks, is what really pushed me over the edge towards my current V90.

 

[V50_M66]

Apart from warrantied piston rings (obviously), I was surprised to hear it had only undergone regular maintenance and a experienced a clogged sunroof drain pipe. Apparently the previous car (P3 XC70) had had a ton of electrical issues (which does seem like a fluke, but regardless it is what it is). Several similar reports from other drivers, along with having had the rental V90 for several weeks, is what really pushed me over the edge towards my current V90.

That's great to hear - thanks

 

[Wayne T5]

That's about what I have seen too, hence the question. They do seem to have the potential to get expensive quickly if something goes wrong, but who knows if that's going to happen.

I'd say a better than average likelihood - not worth the risk IMHO. There are "known knowns", "known unknowns", and then "unknown unknowns", to paraphrase the late Donald Rumsfeld.

 

[SilverStreak177]

Age-wise, 2016-17 SPAs are to us now as earlier P3s were when SPAs were just coming out. It's a pretty mature platform by now about 8 years later, and from what I understand, catastrophic things usually happen early on. Of course, the electronics are ever more complex, but so were P3s 8 years ago compared to P2s. Apart from checking for records of solid maintenance done well, and of course eliminating problematic models from search criteria (early 5cyl T5s + early Driv-e cars), should higher mileage earlier P3s likewise have been avoided in 2016? Maybe, because we didn't have the experience we have with them today, but then we'll have still more experience next year and so on.
Edit: Not sure how it is working on them yourself, have heard some things are pretty labor-intensive to fix, so there's that aspect too.

 

[DFrantz]

I'd personally rather have a car where I could access the computer system better. I don't think dealers are a rip off, because I've spent the money on the tools myself and don't mind a little cursing while working on them, i know it's costly.. but as such... I don't want to pay someone else to be doing something I can do and have make the tool investments on.

As for the car itself... yeah we haven't seen too many to know... but nothing about them inherently would scare me off. Seems like more room under the hood than my P1, P2, and P3 for many items because of the 4 banger. Transmission is well respected. Doesn't seem like the computers themselves are prone to problems.

Also... cars generally depreciate more from age than miles... so IMHO it's better to buy an old car with low miles than a new car with high miles as far as the value goes.

 

[Wayne T5]

Reading more and more about evaporator failures - pretty annoying because we were dealing with them nearly 30 years ago with the 850.

Of course it necessitates dismantling most of the dash to repair.

 

[SilverStreak177]

Reading more and more about evaporator failures - pretty annoying because we were dealing with them nearly 30 years ago with the 850.

Of course it necessitates dismantling most of the dash to repair.

Yes! Mine had that very early on, at around ~5000km, replaced during the first owner's tenure. Plus, make sure you pay attention to the dash if it's an early MY and is a leather one. Iirc they updated the design sometime (2018 or 2019), but early ones are known to shrink and peel off. Exorbitant cost to replace.

 

[V50_M66]

I'd personally rather have a car where I could access the computer system better. I don't think dealers are a rip off, because I've spent the money on the tools myself and don't mind a little cursing while working on them, i know it's costly.. but as such... I don't want to pay someone else to be doing something I can do and have make the tool investments on.

As for the car itself... yeah we haven't seen too many to know... but nothing about them inherently would scare me off. Seems like more room under the hood than my P1, P2, and P3 for many items because of the 4 banger. Transmission is well respected. Doesn't seem like the computers themselves are prone to problems.

Makes sense, and about on par with what I've seen. Thanks

Also... cars generally depreciate more from age than miles... so IMHO it's better to buy an old car with low miles than a new car with high miles as far as the value goes.

That I'm less worried about since I seem to keep the high mile stuff the longest and I would dump miles on it anyway (though I did think I'd keep my Kia forever when I bought it...) - I'd be more worried about reliability, but that seems to be a toss-up. Old stuff will need parts replaced due to age, newer stuff with big miles will likely have issues due to mileage.

Reading more and more about evaporator failures - pretty annoying because we were dealing with them nearly 30 years ago with the 850.

Of course it necessitates dismantling most of the dash to repair.

Wow that sucks. Not a fun job out of warranty, and not likely something you could do yourself due to the new refrigerant in these cars. I am EPA 609 certified to work on AC stuff, and I'm hoping to get a job at the local Volvo dealer this summer, so maybe repairs on these cars won't be too bad once I get some experience with them.
You do make some very valid points though, and I'd hate to have to replace stuff like that regardless, especially since it's likely not cheap.

Yes! Mine had that very early on, at around ~5000km, replaced during the first owner's tenure. Plus, make sure you pay attention to the dash if it's an early MY and is a leather one. Iirc they updated the design sometime (2018 or 2019), but early ones are known to shrink and peel off. Exorbitant cost to replace.

Both good things to know. Starting to seem like less of a good idea for an overall cost of ownership standpoint

 

[msantram]

Lots of great posts here. I only add the thought to consider how those miles were added to the S90. Lots of highway miles or a heavy mix of short trip/city miles and highway? You may not know - though I would suggest widening your field to V60s and S60s if you are not set on only the S90.

 

[V50_M66]

Lots of great posts here. I only add the thought to consider how those miles were added to the S90. Lots of highway miles or a heavy mix of short trip/city miles and highway? You may not know - though I would suggest widening your field to V60s and S60s if you are not set on only the S90.

Honestly, I'd rather have an SPA S60 or especially a V60, but they are just too expensive to be in consideration at this point in time. The cheapest clean title SPA V60 I could find was around $30k (though there was a pair of now-sold base ex-rental cars for sale a few months ago for around $26.5k), and early no-option, high mileage S60s are starting to get around $20-22k. I've seen a few clean title, high mileage S90s listed below $17.5k, so low price is the major draw here, as is the (more minor) draw of the availability of an AWD T5 variant. P3s are out of consideration for me due to oil burning issues on the Drive E cars and the fact that I absolutely hate the 6 speed auto on the (also potentially oil burning) 5 cylinder cars, and anything older than that will require too much work - I might as well just dump money into my '98 V70 to make it perfect at that point.

 

[msantram]

Happy to keep an eye out for options if there is a set budget!

 

[V50_M66]

Happy to keep an eye out for options if there is a set budget!

Thanks for that! Prefer AWD and under $18k if I can find one. Mileage doesn’t matter, and can’t be picky with options at that price point, but good service history would be a major plus.

 

[BenjaminD]

You may also consider the 2017-18 S60 (same 4cyl with 8AT as the T5 S90). They don't burn oil like the 15-16 models, and they're lovely little cars. They are also cheaper and more plentiful than SPA cars. The only downside is a lack of standard-fit CarPlay / Android Auto, which can be remedied in the aftermarket.

From what I can tell, the late P3 S60 / V60 (if you can find one – the wagons are super rare) is a good combination of old & new.

 

[V50_M66]

You may also consider the 2017-18 S60 (same 4cyl with 8AT as the T5 S90). They don't burn oil like the 15-16 models, and they're lovely little cars. They are also cheaper and more plentiful than SPA cars. The only downside is a lack of standard-fit CarPlay / Android Auto, which can be remedied in the aftermarket.

From what I can tell, the late P3 S60 / V60 (if you can find one – the wagons are super rare) is a good combination of old & new.

That's a solid suggestion actually - thanks. I always forget they made them that late. I'd have to drive one to see if I like it. My buddy has a P3 XC60 T6 that I drove, and while that sweetheart of a turbo straight six was a fantastic engine, I was less than impressed by the rest of the car.