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Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used '04-05 S60 R's. Advice needed...

First of all, im only considering 6SP Manual tranny. Basically i want to know if those cars are reliable. Is there really any differences between '04 and '05? Any bugs removed in the '05? I know '04 S60 R Auto-Tranny suked, and was replaced for '05 or '06. But since im not considering Auto Tranny, im not worried bout that one. Any defects i should be looking for when inspecting any R? Heard there is a recall already on the '04 R's, was it the suspension/control arms...? Correct me if im wrong. Like in the 00-01 A6 2.7T Q's starting from 55k miles you should be aware of a rubber piece to get into the AUX-Fan. Another thing about those A6 Auto-Tip-Transmission is that you gotta watch if the transmission doesnt act wierd when shifting into 1st gear when stopping at (example) stop sign. Another thing is that their front rotors get warped all the time. Dont buy one with warped rotors, unless you are getting a huge discount, like i did <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> ...<p>TIA to all.
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used '04-05 S60 R's. ... (brat2)

I was at the Audi dealer today inquiring about a black on black S4 Avant with Navi and 6MT. There is one on the boat on the way here.
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some us ... (steamboatsig)

You mean an S4 comming? Im looking for the S60 R sedan, not an Audi.... lol
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some us ... (brat2)

are you a spy from Audi? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>seriously , 05 is better, 06 is best... if you're hunting for 6mt then it doesn't matter, but I'd still stay away from 04's.<br>
 

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Yes, I am not the most educated in the means of the R...but I would have to agree to forego the MY04 for an MY05 or MY06. How much do you want to spend? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used '04-05 S60 R's. ... (brat2)

Welcome:<p>If you're only considering the 6MT, don't worry about the automatics. But since you asked, the 5spd Auto was used in '04's and '05 and does not suck. It's a decent transmission for an auto, but has torque limiting in first and second gears. Also, the engine with the '04 and '05 automatics (GT's) is rated at under 260 lb-ft instead of 295 for the manuals. In the '06's it was replaced with a 6spd auto with possibly some torque limiting in first gear, but the peak torque is the same 295 as the manuals. I would adivse the manual but the GT is fine if you're a little more relaxed. Also, the clutch on the R is pretty sensitive and engages high...much more difficult to drive smoothly than most other cars, but fine once you get used to it. <p>There is no recall on the '04's for control arms (or any other year). There is a Tech note for something called rear-end "hop" or "squirrel" on all R's, which is a result of the 4C suspension being somewhat at odds with the rest of the car some time. It takes some getting used to, but varies from car to car and is very dependant on the kind of tires on the car. The tech note involves reprogramming the suspension control computer (SUM) and installing a new control arm bushing. Unless your car has unbearable side hop, I would not recommend this. <p>There seem to be very few issues with brakes on the R's. The stock Brembos are very strong. Of course, some on here have upgraded, but warped rotors is not a common occurance. Squeaking brakes is, but there's a tech note for that too. <p>Overall, there are very few major issues with the R. There have been some users on this board who have had those major issues, and some have had to have their cars bought back, but this is the exception. There are a lot of minor ones that can get annoying and try your patience. <p>Warning: Volvos are NOT mod friendly from a dealer standpoint. You may run into dealers who will mod your cars, and some will take different stances on mods, but if you should have a problem under warranty, you're at risk of Volvo claiming it was the mod that did it. This is especially true, apparently, for ECU mods. It seems Volvo dealers are not used to having enthusiasts around. Some choose to play it safe, some choose to live dangerously. <p>As far as '04's vs. '05's, there are some subtle differences...stereo is different, side mouldings are different, rear bumper treatment is slightly different, and there are some minor under the hood changes as well. However, the '04's are not dogs with fleas say, the way the '03 XC90's were as far as problems go. If the price is right, there is no reason not to buy a well sorted out '04. If you can find an '05, even better. <p>Enjoy the search. <p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by needsdecaf at 5:31 AM 3-28-2006</i>
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Question about lowering the R with the adaptive suspension and clutch....

Can i lower the R without affecting the adaptive suspension?<p>And how hard would it be to change clutch in case ill burn it or something...? Any $$$ costs? Dlr prices...? Will warranty cover it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> ?<p>TIA
 

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Re: Question about lowering the R with the adaptive suspension and clutch.... (brat2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>brat2</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can i lower the R without affecting the adaptive suspension?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, there are several options for lowering, from .5" to a lot more than that.
 

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Re: Question about lowering the R with the adaptive suspension and clutch.... (brat2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>brat2</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can i lower the R without affecting the adaptive suspension?<p>And how hard would it be to change clutch in case ill burn it or something...? Any $$$ costs? Dlr prices...? Will warranty cover it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> ?<p>TIA</TD></TR></TABLE><br>If you're going into this with the idea that you might burn out a clutch, I think an R may not be for you.<br>They don't seem to like abuse, you have to drive it smoothly
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used ... (needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Welcome:<p> Also, the clutch on the R is pretty sensitive and engages high...much more difficult to drive smoothly than most other cars, but fine once you get used to it. <br>.......<br>There is a Tech note for something called rear-end "hop" or "squirrel" on all R's, which is a result of the 4C suspension being somewhat at odds with the rest of the car some time. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>So, in otherwords, the first to second shift is smoother at higher rpm's?<br>I have found that shifting at 4K rpm(maximum allowable as per break-in) creates a bit of a jump. <br>I have gotten smoother shifts at 2K for first to second...but that really lowers the torque pull.<br>Every other gear-change feels pretty good at 4K rpm shifting.<p>"Hop" or "Squirrel" is just a way of life in such cars as Mustangs and Trans Ams I have had in the past. I have kinda just gotten used to anticipating for it. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the hop/squirrel effect? I am picking up my 04 S60R soon and I was wondering what updates need to be done? Shall I just tell the dealer to do a full software upgrade for everything?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>THis should help ya...best felt when sweeping left with right side wheels running over manhole cover or similar depression. Mine was cured with just the SUM update. Others have needed the bushings too. Others still have the issue, and others have cured it simply by switching tires...<p><br>TNN60-08-2005-03-23<br>DESCRIPTION: Under certain conditions while driving on curved roads over uneven road surfaces a customer may complain about handling properties. In some cases the customer may complain about a sidestepping sensation from the rear of the vehicle. A new control arm bushing has been introduced in production from the chassis number listed below. <p>Type Engine code Chassis #<br>384 52 - 476762<br>285 52 - 507989<p>SERVICE: If a customer should complain about this condition and the vehicle is below the listed chassis number the rear control arm bushings should be replaced using PN 30748437. Use the instructions listed in VIDA / VADIS remove and replace the lower rear inner control arm bushings.<p>Note: The total rear toe should be set to 0.16 +/- 0.1 degrees. <p>
 

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Re: (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the hop/squirrel effect? I am picking up my 04 S60R soon and I was wondering what updates need to be done? Shall I just tell the dealer to do a full software upgrade for everything?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Software upgrade may/may not help. I had no luck with my '04 R. What many have found (aside from lowering) was that changing the tires helped a lot. After I went to Michelin PS A/S, I had much less pronounced side hop.
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used ... (Eric_H)

Eric my man, you may need some driving lessons.<br>The R shifts the SMOOTHEST(and easiest) at around 4K rpms
 

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Re: (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the hop/squirrel effect? I am picking up my 04 S60R soon and I was wondering what updates need to be done? Shall I just tell the dealer to do a full software upgrade for everything?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>NO!!!<p>Drive the car first. If you don't notice anything, don't worry about it. <p>There are two types of hop I have experienced with my R, low and high speed.<p>Low speed is when hitting a bump, when the rear hits it will do a "two-step". You can feel that the car's movement is out of character with the way it should be responding to the bump. Feels like the tail is kind of wiggling around. The majority of the time, this does not result in the rear tires actually moving, just the body.<p>High speed is worse. When hitting a bump at higher speed, sometimes the suspension will be caught out by the bump. The result is that the rear of the car will actually move around; that is the tires will come off the ground and move. <p>Both of these symptoms are primarily in Comfort. I experience no low speed hop in Sport / Advanced and very little high speed. I keep it in sport unless the road is too rough.<p>Also, I had the bushing change done and the SUM revision. I'd say if you experienc hop, you might try to change the bushing but DO NOT DO THE SUM revision. It makes comfort more "buick like" where it becomes too soft and wallowy, which will actually worsen the hop in comfort. I had read the warnings regarding this, but I did not fully appreciate how soft it made the suspension. It was a lot softer, but in a bad way.<p>From what I have read, lowering springs almost completely banish the hop. Non-stock tires also seem to help. <p>Also, to bring your BP back down, some people have very little hop, some people claim to have never felt it. Good for them.<p>Don't get worked up. Drive the car. If it's screwey, come back and ask for advice. <br>
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used '04-05 S60 R's. ... (brat2)

Like with most things, buy the newest one you can afford. The '05 has the nicer painted side trim and bumper trim, nicer console, 6 disc changer, faster ECU speed, updated taillights, etc. <p>Having said that, the '04s are very nice as well, and now going on three years old with an average of 30k plus miles on them, are probably pretty well sorted out from the typical first year issues you see with any car.
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used '04-05 S60 R's. ... (Wayne T5)

my 04 s60 r is for sale, send me an email, 2004 37k miles, 6 speed, 18" wheels..with ghibli [email protected]
 

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Re: Hi. Comming from A6 C5 forum on AudiWorld. Looking at some used ... (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Eric my man, you may need some driving lessons.<br>The R shifts the SMOOTHEST(and easiest) at around 4K rpms</TD></TR></TABLE><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>My first to second shift has been smooth as butta around the 2500-3000 range. 4 grand is good from 2-3, on up(for me). I really can't wait to see how she shifts around the 6K range! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (Token)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Token</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ghibli interior? Don't you mean Gobi?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Must have been transplanted from a Maserati. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 
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