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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm bringing my R into Keystone Berwyn on Wednesday to fix the power steering fluid reservoir and have them look at the AWD system. Is there a magic word I need to say to get the right techs to work on my car? You seem to know folks there.<p>The AWD started to fail sometime in March, I think the collar gear connection was failing based on the noise it made and the front wheels spinning, back wheels not moving on a shallow incline and snow. Since then I think it works sometimes, hard to tell, but I prefer to have them replace the collar gear now if it means not needing to replace the angle gear later. I'd like to try the new collar gear option, and I'm not under warranty, do you think they would go for it?
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MeisterBrau</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'd like to try the new collar gear option, and I'm not under warranty, do you think they would go for it?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Talk to Steve Owens. I'm sure they'd go for anything, provided you pay for it yourself since you're not under warranty anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (PhilUp)

I've seen a couple of confusing posts, someone saying the part number of the D5 collar gear is invalid (i have 30783419), and a volvo tech saying that it doesn't fit on the angle gear side. Should I still try and ask for this? I don't want another crappy collar gear that is going to fail again.
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MeisterBrau</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen a couple of confusing posts, someone saying the part number of the D5 collar gear is invalid (i have 30783419), and a volvo tech saying that it doesn't fit on the angle gear side. Should I still try and ask for this? I don't want another crappy collar gear that is going to fail again.</TD></TR></TABLE>\<p>I think they will have no idea what you're referring to
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">\<p>I think they will have no idea what you're referring to</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Oh, okay. I thought they were on the cutting edge of the R's AWD problems. I'll just play it by ear and see what they recommend, and decide from there. Thanks.
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

Didn't I tell you not to start with the collar gear stuff when you went there?<br>Now Steve had to tell you to just tell him what you think is wrong with your car!<p>Most of, no all of, your other collar gear info in incorrect. There is no "other/optional" collar gear for an R and most of the time it's just a lubrication issue if it's in the collar gear at all.<br>You probably have a dirty or bad module<p>(Nice looking car BTW)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didn't I tell you not to start with the collar gear stuff when you went there?<br>Now Steve had to tell you to just tell him what you think is wrong with your car!<p>Most of, no all of, your other collar gear info in incorrect. There is no "other/optional" collar gear for an R and most of the time it's just a lubrication issue if it's in the collar gear at all.<br>You probably have a dirty or bad module<p>(Nice looking car BTW)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks JRL. <p>You didn't tell me anything except that they wouldn't know what the D5 part was. I didn't mention that part, although I did say I thought maybe the collar gear was beginning to fail. Reading about it all the time on SS makes me a bit of a hypochondriac I suppose.<p>I do appreciate your time and attention. Thanks again.<p>Edit: Keystone just called, they think it's the collar gear or angle gear + collar gear.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by MeisterBrau at 1:10 PM 4-29-2009</i>
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

Well, if it's not the module that only leaves the angle gear. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>Collar gear, IN ITSELF, rarely fails unless it had been removed and reinatalled <B>without the proper grease</B>
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JRL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Collar gear, IN ITSELF, rarely fails unless it had been removed and reinatalled <B>without the proper grease</B></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Jim, you've been losing your touch lately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

Really? I have seen lots of stuff on the R forum about the collar gear failing. Even speculations that the collar gear was a type of 'sheer pin' for the AWD system to protect the transmission and angle gear (probably not the case)<p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=113241" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=113241</A> <br><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=113299" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=113299</A> <br><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=109322&postid=1132382" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...32382</A> <br><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=50601&page=1" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...age=1</A><br><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=50627&page=1" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...age=1</A>
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

If it was driven decently/properly, it shouldn't fail<br>If an owner drives the piss out of an R and doesn't know how to shift smoothly, (a lot of drivers fall into this category), sure it can break!<br>It's not the strongest piece of hardware in existence...<br>Are YOU a smooth driver? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I've been with prospective buyers and cringe when they take off and shift.<p>I can't really believe how many people in this country are <B>extremely poor </B>manual (shift) drivers. They haven't a clue how to shift, when to shift, what the engine is doing, what the CAR is doing, etc. and have no "feel' for a car and some of these are people who drive some EXPENSIVE automobiles.<p>My late best friend was an extreme gearhead, owned tons of cars and some fast boats and he was one scary dude to be in a car with!<br>He hadn't a clue as to what was going on. I went for a ride once (actually several times) with him in his Cigarette, but this time was out in a moderately rough (5 footers) ocean! This was one fast boat, with a pair of SERIOUS engines, (about 700-800 hp each)! He scared the crap out of me (and himself) several times when finally I told him to sit down and I would drive, (or I would chuck him overboard with a life vest)!<br>Now I'm not particularly a boat person but I drove that boat at or about about the same speed that he was driving without the boat going 45 degress nose up in the air! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>You either have a feel for machinery or you don't, It cannot be taught IMO.<br>You can teach someone with natural talent to be a (much) better driver but you cannot make someone a good, <U>smooth</U> driver and not break his car, if it isn't in his (or her) genes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

Well, *I* don't think I shift roughly, but I've never been evaluated by a certified manual transmission judge. I can shift smooth enough for my wife to sip coffee in the passenger seat, but I'll admit it's not always that smooth when I'm alone in the car. But I'm not sure that matters too much as I bought the car with 54K miles on it. <p>The fact remains that P2 MT Rs have weak collar gears, evidenced by the metallurgical analysis done at Boeing labs. The fact that many people on Sweedspeed complain about stripped collar gears and stripped collar gears wrecking their angle gears makes me think it's a widespread problem. Unfortunately these are just people on an internet message board and maybe we all drive like idiots.<p>This guy: <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085</A> <br>says he babies his car and replaces the collar gear every 15K miles as preventative maintenence. But maybe he's not really a Volvo Tech and maybe he shifts his car way too hard, who knows?
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MeisterBrau</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> But I'm not sure that matters too much as I bought the car with 54K miles on it. <p><br><B>Well, that should not make you responsible as whatever damage has been done</B><p>This guy: <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085</A> <br>says he babies his car and replaces the collar gear every 15K miles as preventative maintenence. But maybe he's not really a Volvo Tech and maybe he shifts his car way too hard, who knows?<p><B>BS, read my response in that post. <p>I'll be over at Keystone in a while, I'll find out what's really up with your car.<br>IM me later today</B><p><br></TD></TR></TABLE>
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

JRL, I took my car back. They said mis-matched tires might have contributed, so I want to replace the rears before having them fix it. And I'm not 100% sure that I want them to fix it.
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MeisterBrau</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, *I* don't think I shift roughly, but I've never been evaluated by a certified manual transmission judge. I can shift smooth enough for my wife to sip coffee in the passenger seat, but I'll admit it's not always that smooth when I'm alone in the car. But I'm not sure that matters too much as I bought the car with 54K miles on it. <p>The fact remains that P2 MT Rs have weak collar gears, evidenced by the metallurgical analysis done at Boeing labs. The fact that many people on Sweedspeed complain about stripped collar gears and stripped collar gears wrecking their angle gears makes me think it's a widespread problem. Unfortunately these are just people on an internet message board and maybe we all drive like idiots.<p>This guy: <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117085</A> <br>says he babies his car and replaces the collar gear every 15K miles as preventative maintenence. But maybe he's not really a Volvo Tech and maybe he shifts his car way too hard, who knows?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>There is a divergence of opinions here on this part. As the one who organized the research done at BAE on this failure I can say without a doubt that the part used between 04-06 on the manual transmission cars and 04-05 on the GT cars is a VERY soft part. In addition it is very poorly fitting. <p>I'm afraid all the grease in the world would not solve the problem. The failure mode is wear, however, since the metal is so much softer than the shaft, and the part so ill fitting, grease will only help postpone the inevitable. <p>Sometime after the 06 models started Volvo started to nitride coat the part, this does reduce wear and these should last longer. Then in 08 all cars using the M66AWD moved over to a MUCH MUCH stronger case hardened part.<p>What can we tell from this? Logically Volvo would move from the base part to a very expensive nitride coated part for no reason. Since there have been no lawsuits and no legal requirements we can only surmise this is warranty claims related since it costs Volvo more to handle a warranty labour claim than just make the part stronger. After 2 years and realizing this didn't help they created a case hardened part. This is made all the clearer when you see that ALL Volvos using the 6 speed automatic transmission (T6, V8, R, 3.2, etc) use a totally different, much stronger part that has better fitment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

Keystone is fixing it today. We'll see if the angle gear needs to be replaced also, or not. ~~positive vibes~~<p>A few good points for Keystone: with their Keystone Kash program, factory warranty for repairs (1 year) is doubled to two years. This includes parts AND labor! Good piece of mind. Also, they gave me an XC60 as a loaner. Nice car - the tailgating warning can be annoying, but set to the minimum distance it seems to be okay. The other saftety stuff is cool - lane drifting, blind spot indicators, etc. The sunroof is fantastic. I didn't have any problems with the radio yet, about ~20 miles so far...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

Collar Gear + Angle Gear. $2227.
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MeisterBrau</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Keystone is fixing it today. We'll see if the angle gear needs to be replaced also, or not. ~~positive vibes~~<p>A few good points for Keystone: with their Keystone Kash program, factory warranty for repairs (1 year) is doubled to two years. This includes parts AND labor! Good piece of mind. Also, they gave me an XC60 as a loaner. Nice car - the tailgating warning can be annoying, but set to the minimum distance it seems to be okay. The other saftety stuff is cool - lane drifting, blind spot indicators, etc. The sunroof is fantastic. I didn't have any problems with the radio yet, about ~20 miles so far... </TD></TR></TABLE><p>You drove the brownish one?<br>I had that last week, real nice, AWFUL tires, I don't think there is a "tailgate warning" system<br>That is the lane departure warning and a real PIA. It defauts to on everytime you starrt the car but just hit the button to turn it off.<br>I just turned off every switch everytime I started the XC
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (JRL)

Yeah, it's copper or bronze or something I think. <p>There is a red light that comes on the windshield like a heads-up display when you are "too close" to the car in front of you. You can change the senstivity/distance but it's still pretty sensitive for Rt 202 in rush hour. No audible alarm which is good.<p>I experienced the lane change thing (beeping), that's fine I use my signals when I change lanes anyways. There is also indicator lights by the side-view mirrors that come on if someone is in your blind spot. I don't have a problem with that either.
 

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Re: Hey JRL, I'm going to Keystone (MeisterBrau)

Guess I wasn't too close to anyone, that never came up<br>No point in using a turn signal when no one is nearby, THAT's what's annoying about that little gizmo, irretating!
 
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