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I’ve been on the same train as you, and I also want to “sleep better at night”. At least from all my reading, it doesn’t seem like shimming necessarily hurts the block, but as for its effects, I’m not sure. Personally, after talking with my Indy, he said it’s just silly when people throw these ridiculous tunes at these cars when they’re already so vulnerable, shimmed or not. These cars are so great and fun from the factory, and if you treat it like the imperfect but beautiful machine it is, (meaning not throwing 24 freaking pounds of boost at it), it should treat you right.

One thing that seems like it might have a positive effect on the car is water/meth. Bringing cooler air into the engine and (hopefully) keeping engine temperature down seems like it protect the block a bit more.

now one thing, (and I know this isn’t possible for you with this being your daily) is sleeving the block (expensive), or I’ve been intrigued by this
I’ve been on the same train as you, and I also want to “sleep better at night”. At least from all my reading, it doesn’t seem like shimming necessarily hurts the block, but as for its effects, I’m not sure. Personally, after talking with my Indy, he said it’s just silly when people throw these ridiculous tunes at these cars when they’re already so vulnerable, shimmed or not. These cars are so great and fun from the factory, and if you treat it like the imperfect but beautiful machine it is, (meaning not throwing 24 freaking pounds of boost at it), it should treat you right.

One thing that seems like it might have a positive effect on the car is water/meth. Bringing cooler air into the engine and (hopefully) keeping engine temperature down seems like it protect the block a bit more.

now one thing, (and I know this isn’t possible for you with this being your daily) is sleeving the block (expensive), or I’ve been intrigued by this
Ps: might be worth renting a boroscope from your local autozone and taking a peak to see what condition your cylinders are in before you go taking the head off…
 
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I would be shimming the block my self which will be fun. If i decide to do that or a built block whatever the budget decides. Is it heat that is a issue on these engines or is it the boost we run. Or a combination of them all
 

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I would be shimming the block my self which will be fun. If i decide to do that or a built block whatever the budget decides. Is it heat that is a issue on these engines or is it the boost we run. Or a combination of them all
It’s kind of a combo of them all, I would be inclined to say boost is the primary offender, but heat also plays a part. People like ScottishBrick and TheDriver know infinitely more than me, but heat management seems like a great place to start, and is typically not super expensive. I would also consider a Do88 intercooler. My plans are meth/water and do88 next, and then I’ll shim the block when I have my mechanic friend in town next.
 
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I would be shimming the block my self which will be fun. If i decide to do that or a built block whatever the budget decides. Is it heat that is a issue on these engines or is it the boost we run. Or a combination of them all
One thing I would also say, if your block was ever to go kaput, I actually wouldn’t put a 2.5 back in. V70RUSA on Instagram is in the process of putting a 2.3 in his, has a much thicker bore. That, coupled with the k24 high pressure and a good tune, then you can be pushing good power but much more reliably. Just my $0.02, I certainly don’t mean to offend any purists! :)
 
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One thing I would also say, if your block was ever to go kaput, I actually wouldn’t put a 2.5 back in. V70RUSA on Instagram is in the process of putting a 2.3 in his, has a much thicker bore. That, coupled with the k24 high pressure and a good tune, then you can be pushing good power but much more reliably. Just my $0.02, I certainly don’t mean to offend any purists! :)
Gee I wonder who advised on that project



B5234T9 w/R head and hybrid K24

Sounds familiar......all started with a best of the bunch engine build for a certain red 855R
 

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Gee I wonder who advised on that project



B5234T9 w/R head and hybrid K24

Sounds familiar......all started with a best of the bunch engine build for a certain red 855R
Well you can be certain I will be following the same path (when I have the time and money 😂)
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
It’s kind of a combo of them all, I would be inclined to say boost is the primary offender, but heat also plays a part. People like ScottishBrick and TheDriver know infinitely more than me, but heat management seems like a great place to start, and is typically not super expensive. I would also consider a Do88 intercooler. My plans are meth/water and do88 next, and then I’ll shim the block when I have my mechanic friend in town next.
I have a snabb intercooler turbo inlet pipe and ford rs oil cooler installed plus swedesource air filter. How much of an advantage does the oil cooler have to the heat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
One thing I would also say, if your block was ever to go kaput, I actually wouldn’t put a 2.5 back in. V70RUSA on Instagram is in the process of putting a 2.3 in his, has a much thicker bore. That, coupled with the k24 high pressure and a good tune, then you can be pushing good power but much more reliably. Just my $0.02, I certainly don’t mean to offend any purists! :)
Yea I've been thinking of this wouldnt I need to switch out my pistons and stuff. Basically along the lines of built engine
 

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One thing that seems like it might have a positive effect on the car is water/meth. Bringing cooler air into the engine and (hopefully) keeping engine temperature down seems like it protect the block a bit more.

now one thing, (and I know this isn’t possible for you with this being your daily) is sleeving the block (expensive), or I’ve been intrigued by this
I agree with this 100%

The other more extreme factor and main cause of these failures is heat. More boost = more heat which is probably the main cause leading to failure.

My block failed with a more conservative tune @ 18 pounds, it's really about heat, milage/wear and then finally I'd say the reinforcement of the wall itself. I don't think the shims will do much if you plan on running crazy boost levels, the heat generated its just too much. Do I think if I had done shims with a light tune like this, would it have helped? Possibly. Run 22+ psi on even a stock k24, your probably going to crack it, pair it with meth maybe not.

As far as sleeves and daily driving, tough to say. I plan on doing it but only time will tell with the dartons, I may have gone a different route if I knew there were better solutions now. Another alternative is the Kaph block guard, I think pairing that with meth is a great alternative to sleeving.
 
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I disagree its carbon buildup causing pre-ignition severe enough for cracking cylinders. I agree shims do nothing.

The issue is a shim that fits without a huge delta-t at installation (like heat the block to 200F and cool the shim to -200F) is not providing the intended effect of a thicker cylinder wall (to counter the hoop stress). If you can get it in without a delta-t then there is still a gap and lets assume its .002"?

Each time you have combustion in that cylinder you have an increase in hoop stress (do this over and over hundreds of times per minute) and getting it hotter--more boost--makes it worse because there's more pressure in the cylinder to make more power.

I doubt the actual magnitude of deformation of the cylinder due to stress is more than .001" (probably really like .0001") so that .002-.001=.002" (at best) gap that still exists means the shim does nothing.
 
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I disagree its carbon buildup causing pre-ignition severe enough for cracking cylinders. I agree shims do nothing.

The issue is a shim that fits without a huge delta-t at installation (like heat the block to 200F and cool the shim to -200F) is not providing the intended effect of a thicker cylinder wall (to counter the hoop stress). If you can get it in without a delta-t then there is still a gap and lets assume its .002"?

Each time you have combustion in that cylinder you have an increase in hoop stress (do this over and over hundreds of times per minute) and getting it hotter--more boost--makes it worse because there's more pressure in the cylinder to make more power.

I doubt the actual magnitude of deformation of the cylinder due to stress is more than .001" (probably really like .0001") so that .002-.001=.002" (at best) gap that still exists means the shim does nothing.
Yeah, I don't think so.

An interference fit is not required to achieve the desired effect. In fact it would probably contribute to failure.

Cylinder pressure caused by poor tuning or component failure leading to a lean condition is what causes the cracking. I've seen it on 81mm blocks as well. It's a combination of factors including the fact that you have an iron sleeve in an aluminum surround, both have different expansion coefficients. I'm relatively certain that if you used an iron block you wouldn't have these issues and if you did they would be significantly more pronounced.
 

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Sigh…. Are we really still debating this after all these years?

I will remind you all that most failures occur on completely stock engines. Heat and detonation are the killers and water / methanol definitely helps.

This engine has approximately 35K - 40K miles running an EFR 7163 turbo at 30 psi of boost. It made 487 AWHP and 517 lbft of torque. Tell me again that shims don’t work?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Gee I wonder who advised on that project



B5234T9 w/R head and hybrid K24

Sounds familiar......all started with a best of the bunch engine build for a certain red 855R
Yeah idk who helped, I'm pretty sure I did it myself.... :LOL:
+1 on an engine swap IF POSSIBLE.

Just saying, I've seen shimmed and unshimmed motors pop. Mine was tuned and still was cracked on 3/5 sleeves.
Guy local to me was driving his R and just pulled out onto the street and cracked his block; stock tune, etc. Yeah yeah I know running these cars stock is dangerous, but the point still stands....
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Mine is stock tune. With Fmic. Upgraded oil cooler and turbo inlet. full exhaust. I feel like my temps are under control like 60 degree day my intake temps will be 3 above ambient. Is that a desired temp? And am i better off then i was with the bolt ons or am I bit more reliable with them
 

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Mine is stock tune. With Fmic. Upgraded oil cooler and turbo inlet. full exhaust. I feel like my temps are under control like 60 degree day my intake temps will be 3 above ambient. Is that a desired temp? And am i better off then i was with the bolt ons or am I bit more reliable with them
Yes, the bolt ons do help, you are a slight bit more reliable with them. The stock dual setup on these cars is a trash heap anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Yes, the bolt ons do help, you are a slight bit more reliable with them. The stock dual setup on these cars is a trash heap anyway.
That's good to know I dont usually womp on the throttle especially when hot out. I tend to baby it but not always. Do you know any thing about the rs oil cooler?
 

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That's good to know I dont usually womp on the throttle especially when hot out. I tend to baby it but not always. Do you know any thing about the rs oil cooler?
Yes, not sure if you have an instagram but you can follow my build at @v70rusa. I have the D5 oil cooler on my motor. It's not really an RS oil cooler but it is principally the same concept. RS oil cooler has coolant and oil fittings that only work for RNC cars. I would highly recommend it. It has a 30% larger core and is a direct bolt on but you have to ever so slightly bend your rear water pipe that leads to the oil cooler itself. It helps to regulate and manage your oil temperatures easier. If you talk to @George @ ViVA I think they have them in stock and available for purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Yes, not sure if you have an instagram but you can follow my build at @v70rusa. I have the D5 oil cooler on my motor. It's not really an RS oil cooler but it is principally the same concept. RS oil cooler has coolant and oil fittings that only work for RNC cars. I would highly recommend it. It has a 30% larger core and is a direct bolt on but you have to ever so slightly bend your rear water pipe that leads to the oil cooler itself. It helps to regulate and manage your oil temperatures easier. If you talk to @George @ ViVA I think they have them in stock and available for purchase.
Im following you already @WavyDawks and i already have the rs oil cooler installed. It was pricey but it was easy to do. Wdym by RNC cars only?
 

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Im following you already @WavyDawks and i already have the rs oil cooler installed. It was pricey but it was easy to do. Wdym by RNC cars only?
Well theres 2 kinds. The RS oil cooler has oil and water fittings that only fit the RNC cars. The "D5" oil cooler is what the P2 chassis cars can take because they have different fittings that originally came on diesel cars only for obvious reasons. Just take a look at the different in fittings between the RNC oil cooler and the RN D5 oil cooler that the P2 cars take. The difference is almost 100% in the style and angle of fittings. I'm fairly certain they're identical otherwise.
 
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