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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was looking for just a little pop in HP without doing any exhaust or mods. Can anyone speak to a stage 1 IPD tune and the feeling or gains I will get? Should I do it? I don't want to start getting all these odd failures from over stressing anything. I have the car pretty much at stage 0. 2004 V70R with 50,00 miles 100% stock (and a brand new clutch and timing belt and exhaust manifold as of last 50 miles).

Thanks!

Shroom.
 

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Nothing wrong with a tune on stock plumbing, I did the same till the warranty ran out before doing obvious stuff like upgrading the plumbing.

That being said, if you want to get the most of your tune AND reduce your R's stress, upgrade the exhaust and your intercooler since the added performance prefers better breathing conditions.
 

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I have one on my VR. It's good. Definetly more power than stock. I got it right before Hilton Tuning was selling tunes and if I had to do it over I would go with Hilton Tuning for my VR. But there is nothing wrong with the IPD.
 

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What exactly is tweaked by each tune? What is the difference between them - are these the right ones? I am reading that IPD is $725 and Hilton is $350 ... what does the Hilton tune fail to do that the IPD does?
 

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ARD makes a good tune, and he used to work for IPD. A stage 1 tune does make a difference, it is nothing drastic, but a little more power and economy, as long as the rest of the engine is in good shape. If you want to budget out your upgrade and test the waters for further upgrades like an exhaust etc I think a mild tune is a worthy investment, it gives you some perks, and some testing ground to shake out the various things in your car.
 

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Bottom line is a good tune bumps you from about 1 bar of boost to closer to the 1.5 bar a stock K24 can easily support, which is where the extra power comes from. To do so they have to tweak the tuning maps for everything from fuel delivery to ignition timing for these updated operating parameters. Its not rocket science, but it is a technical art. As such its why whoever you get your tune from, make sure they have a long reputable track record of their tunes running well on people's cars just like yours. Or you can be someone's guinee pig to save a buck, the choice is yours.
 

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ARD makes a good tune,
ARD is hit and miss. He has a track record of not properly tuning some ME7 cars and then hiding behind his no refund policy when the car doesn't run right and the owner has to go to another tuner to fix it.

IPD is more expensive because they have an entire company to support and offer great warranty and customer service. Hilton is smaller with less overhead, as is JZW, another reputable tuner.
 

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I did a Stage zero over the first year of ownership and then sprung for the RICA tune. Regardless of who's tune you get, I think the biggest thing you will notice is the elimination of the torque limiter since you have an '04. You also notice the pull at higher RPMs as well but depending on where you live, those opportunities might not happen all that often. The addition of torque is something you will notice immediately every time you drive the caR.
This doesn't come without a cost however. My control arm bushings that were replaced 30k miles ago already need to be replaced again and I'm sure other parts like motor/trans mounts, plugs, coils, etc will last a shorter period of time. Well worth the price IMHO.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm putting about 5k on it a year. I think I'm ready for the tune..can't see owning it for another 10 years so I might as well give it a little extra pop for the next 30K miles or so! Thanks for the advice!!
 

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ARD is hit and miss. He has a track record of not properly tuning some ME7 cars and then hiding behind his no refund policy when the car doesn't run right and the owner has to go to another tuner to fix it.

IPD is more expensive because they have an entire company to support and offer great warranty and customer service. Hilton is smaller with less overhead, as is JZW, another reputable tuner.
I have talked to two individuals with the same story. But another acquaintance, CKAvolvo, gets great support. He also spends billions of dollars with him, hahaha. ;)

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What exactly is tweaked by each tune? What is the difference between them - are these the right ones? I am reading that IPD is $725 and Hilton is $350 ... what does the Hilton tune fail to do that the IPD does?
Hey just wanted to ask this again as I begin to shop in earnest -- really I have two questions:

(1) What specifically is altered by the re-flash (e.g., fuel trims, timing, boost adjustments - overall / by gear / break points), and

(2) What specifically are the differences in the above tunes, and maybe also between the other tunes being discussed here? And what factors if any account for the large price difference?
 

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Hey just wanted to ask this again as I begin to shop in earnest -- really I have two questions:

(1) What specifically is altered by the re-flash (e.g., fuel trims, timing, boost adjustments - overall / by gear / break points), and

(2) What specifically are the differences in the above tunes, and maybe also between the other tunes being discussed here? And what factors if any account for the large price difference?
Any ideas here? Maybe if any vendors are on the site they can chime in about their products. Thanks ahead of time.
 

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What tuners adjust is something everybody does differently. I've seen quite a few tunes from big names. Basic changes are requested load, fuelling. Some alter timing too. Polestar for example only changes so called boost map (although there isnt a map spesifically for boost). Hilton being a computer engineer, has reverse engineered these ECU's completely and knows excactly how they operate. There are a lot of secrets in Volvo files that other tuners dont know of. And also he co-developed superior datalogging software to tweak boost, fuelling and timing to the max safe levels. Most tuners including IPD sell a preset file. It is not tweaked to a particular car. I have tuned many many cars now and know for a fact that two stock cars will have completely different calibration if same output is expected
 

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^ Thanks! Do you mean that Hilton has created a tune using empirical results, while the others simply tweak something in the OEM maps and rely on ECU's OEM feedback algorithms to compensate fuel and/or timing accordingly, such as Polestar simply adjusting the boost or VE parameters? And is your tuning experience with P2Rs or something else? I ask because I come from another platform and am trying to wrap my head around the P2R tuning methodologies. Thanks again.
 

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I'm sorry. I dont know what empirical means, but i try to explain as good as my english allows.
These ECU's have a pretty decent adaption system. Meaning small changes can be felt and ecu adjusts timing accordingly if needed. Most big name tuners sell a one-size-fits all file. Many disable overboost detection since it is impossible to properly calibrate a map by just guessing. You need to log and you need a good fast datalogger that can log all the variables. Hence Hilton.
Reason for safety disabling is big tuners dont want to deal with end users getting into limp mode and throwing codes. Since these cars (R models) when tuned usually operate near the MAP limit, it can make the PID controller do stupid things. Since there is no headroom. Usual tuned boost levels are 19-21psi. Spikes can cause more. Stock ECM goes blind after 22.5psi or so. It doesnt know if boost is 22.6 or 30psi. Hilton uses a great method to ensure no boost spikes and stable boost curve in all gears regardless of ambient temps. Assuming hardware is in good order of course.
My tuning experience started with fiddling with my own car since the bought Autotech tune didnt deliver promised results. I have tuned a few R models and many 2.4T and 2.5T low pressure models too (one 2.5T with 210bhp stock made 300whp with upgraded turbo, injectors etc with my tune. It eats a stock R and probably one with a generic tune as well). Also VAG group cars (Audi, VW, Seat etc) share the same ecu and i've had a few of those too.
As i said, there are a lot of secrets and hidden limiters in Volvo files that Hilton has found. He's the only one that can completely remove automatic torque limiter. Now i can too, long journey lol..
If you want more specifics then PM please.
 

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Use Hilton if u want he best imo.
 

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^ Thanks! Do you mean that Hilton has created a tune using empirical results, while the others simply tweak something in the OEM maps and rely on ECU's OEM feedback algorithms to compensate fuel and/or timing accordingly, such as Polestar simply adjusting the boost or VE parameters? And is your tuning experience with P2Rs or something else? I ask because I come from another platform and am trying to wrap my head around the P2R tuning methodologies. Thanks again.
Empirical-Relying on or derived from observation or experiment. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment. Of or being a philosophy of medicine emphasizing practical experience and observation over scientific theory.

While I personally don't believe all tunes are derived from 100% empirical results, I do strongly believe in their testing methods to develop tunes as well as theoretical knowledge combined with real world testing. Is there really any other way to "develop" a modified tune? Obviously to develop more power on an otherwise stock turbo engine is to increase boost (air) and fuel, while keeping timing to prevent detonation. Simple as that. While I say "Simple as that", it really isn't as simple as some may think. Yes, some tuners are better than others. IMO I think Rob at Hilton has reversed engineered the Volvo ME7 for his tunes and not just modified a map. I run a Hilton Tune on my T5 and a IPD/MTE on my R. Hilton FTW. I have also had a customer with a ARD tune whose S60R was heavily modded and just ran like dog sh1t. ARD sent him new ECM's, still has major hesitation and bucking when in boost. Without changing ANYTHING other than the tune to HILTON, the car then ran like a bat out of hell. Lucky at ARD denied anything wrong with is tune and refused money back but absolutely nothing else was changed except the removal of his tune that made the S60R run right. In Lucky's emails he kept saying it needed a TCV, CBV, Fuel Pump etc. All it needed was his tune removed. YMMV.
 

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I have talked to two individuals with the same story. But another acquaintance, CKAvolvo, gets great support. He also spends billions of dollars with him, hahaha. ;)

Sent from my iDevice using Tapatalk
:)

When looking at Stage 1 to Stage two most of the tunes are similar in how they work. You have two categories of tunes Mild and aggressive. . Almost all tuners have moved to less aggressive in the Stage 1 & 2 tunes, esp IPD and Rika. The problem with tunes is when you get to stage III. You might notice fewer companies will to do them, not knowing the state of the customers car( also the miles are getting up there on most cars). I think you are fine with who ever gives you the best customer service in your pre purchase communications. In reality only when the tuner has your car for a period of time can they get it dialed in 100%. In my tune shoot out very few parameters are adjusted ( compared to a COBB Tune). This is just the observation from a top tuner for Subaru's who handles all my Dyno work. With JZW and ARD I was able to purchase some tech time so they can speak with the Dyno operator and between them they come up with improvements to the initial file. This is not needed with up to Stage II
 

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^ Thanks! Do you mean that Hilton has created a tune using empirical results, while the others simply tweak something in the OEM maps and rely on ECU's OEM feedback algorithms to compensate fuel and/or timing accordingly, such as Polestar simply adjusting the boost or VE parameters? And is your tuning experience with P2Rs or something else? I ask because I come from another platform and am trying to wrap my head around the P2R tuning methodologies. Thanks again.
It's really not specific to P2Rs as much as it is ME7. ME7 is used on multiple brands of cars and is actually really well known outside of Volvo circles as well. JZW for example got his experience tuning Audis, BMWs and Saabs, so all he needed to get into Volvo was to understand the few unique quirks about them and he quickly became an expert.

I'm a layman with some technical training but I don't even begin to claim to be able to understand it fully. I've talked face to face with several tuners and what it boils down to is that ME7 is pretty complicated and there are dozens of maps and variables to tweak for a proper tune, variables I was told but have already forgotten the names of. It definitely is not "increase boost and timing" like it was on ME4.3 and 4.4, which I think is where ARD falls down.

If you want to know more, do internet searches on tuning ME7, rather than tuning Volvos. We're a pretty small market compared to the rest of the brands.
 
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