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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Unfortunately I am not surprised enough with this mod.Yes on 3-4 gear an improvement is observed.As I read from the topics on SS,the BSR PPC seems better .

In fact I am not sure about the difference at all.Superchips UK says +30hp,and BSR +40 or something similar.

But which parts of the car are retuned on Superchips and PPC?

To have the Superchips,de-install the head unit and connect to another device and program .....

For the BSR plug the socket and program....

They should be something different.
At least the methods are not the same.

Are there anyone who can explain this?

I have read all the topics but seems that no clear explanation about the difference.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (xenophobic)

I'm not sure I understand the question but I believe Superchips actually removes the OEM chip in your ECU and solders in a new "Super"chip.

BSR, on the otherhand, doesn't replace any actual hardware. They ship you a PPC (which is a handheld unit that you hook up to your car) which simply flashes the existing chip with new BSR programming. The OEM chip stays in your car. You can flash your programming to tuned or OEM at any time.

This is far from my field of knowledge, but I doubt the PPC will work with an aftermarket chip since it was designed to work with the programming on the OEM chip. I'm sure someone else will chime in with info though.

-Eric
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (xenophobic)

The are three ways to alter the programming in the Flash ROM in the ECM

1 - via OBD port, like BSR. It reflashes the ROm with the circuit "hot", similar to VADIS/VIDA

2 - remove the ECM and connect to the circuit to flash the ROM

3 - exchange the actual ROM

All three methods are used, they all just change the binary code in the ROM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (JimLill)

Quote, originally posted by JimLill »
The are three ways to alter the programming in the Flash ROM in the ECM

1 - via OBD port, like BSR. It reflashes the ROm with the circuit "hot", similar to VADIS/VIDA

2 - remove the ECM and connect to the circuit to flash the ROM

3 - exchange the actual ROM

All three methods are used, they all just change the binary code in the ROM.


I wonder what creates the +10 hp between BSR PPC and Superchips?
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (xenophobic)

Quote, originally posted by xenophobic »
I wonder what creates the +10 hp between BSR PPC and Superchips?

There's a difference between HP claims, and real-world HP gains.

In my opinion, I think that virtually all the ECU upgrading companies out there end up with pretty much the same horsepower increases.

Personally, I would LOVE to see someone like, ahem, Rolling, or Swedespeed, etc. do a comparison dyno for:
Evolve (PowerChips)
IPD (MTE)
BSR
HEICO

Yeah, so you're spending 4 grand. But oh, the word-of-mouth advertising you'd get for something like that!!!
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (xenophobic)

Quote, originally posted by xenophobic »
I wonder what creates the +10 hp between BSR PPC and Superchips?

regardless of claim, all chip-only mods yield 30-33 max on an R
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (R Salesman)

Quote, originally posted by R Salesman »


There's a difference between HP claims, and real-world HP gains.

In my opinion, I think that virtually all the ECU upgrading companies out there end up with pretty much the same horsepower increases.

Personally, I would LOVE to see someone like, ahem, Rolling, or Swedespeed, etc. do a comparison dyno for:
Evolve (PowerChips)
IPD (MTE)
BSR
HEICO

Yeah, so you're spending 4 grand. But oh, the word-of-mouth advertising you'd get for something like that!!!

Now THAT's a great idea!
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (R Salesman)

Quote, originally posted by R Salesman »

Personally, I would LOVE to see someone like, ahem, Rolling, or Swedespeed, etc. do a comparison dyno for:
Evolve (PowerChips)
IPD (MTE)
BSR
HEICO

Rolling did... At least between Evolve and IPD. IPD came out ahead with numbers but people were saying that Evolve felt faster? Enter the world of false claims by Evolve as to what they do and IPD/TME doesn't do (don't want to open up the same can of worms). The problem with the comparison is that it was on 2 different cars so the results I'd say aren't accurate.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (mike_c70)

Quote, originally posted by mike_c70 »
Rolling did... At least between Evolve and IPD. IPD came out ahead with numbers but people were saying that Evolve felt faster? Enter the world of false claims by Evolve as to what they do and IPD/TME doesn't do (don't want to open up the same can of worms). The problem with the comparison is that it was on 2 different cars so the results I'd say aren't accurate.

This is due to throttle mapping.

IPD/MTE remaps the throttle so that when you depress the accelerator by 10%, you may get 15% throttle opening. The stock throttle map gives you maybe 25% throttle opening when the accelerator is depressed 10%. I am not sure if BSR altered the throttle map.

For the stock setting, by the time you depress the accelerator 60%, the throttle may be WOT, depressing the accelerator more will not give you any more power.

Manufacturers use this trick to give the illusion of a fast car. Drivers will tap the accelerator and the car zooms off, and they will think "Wow...this car is already pulling when I have hardly stepped on the accelerator...and I have so much more accelerator travel left!". But the reality is that the last 30-40% of accelerator travel achieves nothing.

IPD/MTE remaps the throttle setting to give a more linear response. Thus drivers that jumped from A BSR car to a IPD/MTE car may feel the car is slower because based on the same accelerator travel, the throttle opens less.

Linear response is good for those that track, it is good to be able to modulate the throttle when taking bends and corners.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (mike_c70)

Quote, originally posted by mike_c70 »
The problem with the comparison is that it was on 2 different cars so the results I'd say aren't accurate.

Exactly. Therein lies the problem. In order to do an accurate comparison, you would need the following:

Same car
Same dyno
Same ambient temps
Same fuel
Probably some other variables I'm not considering.

I'd be willing to do it on my car, but I don't have that kind of research money.

I didn't include RICA because I'm unaware of any readily available tune from them (when I say readily available, I mean that I don't have to drive outside of my town to get it done). All the other companies you can mail your ECU to them or go the PPC route with BSR.

Until a comparison like this is done on the same vehicle, there will be no definitive answer as to who's tune is "the best." It's all subjective. And furthermore, I doubt any of us are willing to spend more than a grand more than once just to "try something else out."

So this begs the question: does anyone with lots of money want to try out the 4 main tuners for us and report back with scientific data?
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (R Salesman)

Quote, originally posted by R Salesman »

I didn't include RICA because I'm unaware of any readily available tune from them (when I say readily available, I mean that I don't have to drive outside of my town to get it done). All the other companies you can mail your ECU to them or go the PPC route with BSR.

Lee,
To clarify, we have the ability to solder a new chip with RICA software for the R models like some of the other tuners, but we prefer the OBD2 flash method for 1999+ models (we have received similar feedback from our customers).
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (R Salesman)

Quote, originally posted by R Salesman »
Exactly. Therein lies the problem. In order to do an accurate comparison, you would need the following:

Same car
Same dyno
Same ambient temps
Same fuel
Probably some other variables I'm not considering.

You don't need the same car, as long as they are both S60Rs, with the same filter/DP/exhaust you are fine.

But the big problem here is that dynos don't really mean anything, because they are just PREDICTIONS of real world performance. And we KNOW that how our cars perform on the dyno doesn't necessarily translate to how they perform in the real world (especially with inability to control Haldex variable). Everyone from Richard to Johann has talked about that.

What you really need is each of the cars with the same wheels/tires at a 1/4 mile track or at least with a G-Tech, run multiple acceleration runs with same driver and average results.

Or even if someone was to do what we did here, do multiple runs 1/4 mile runs in both directions with stock ECU tune on G-Tech, hit the "magic" button on the BSR PPC and do multiple runs again. Take an average and say - This tune showed an improvement of ... seconds 0-60 and ... seconds 1/4 mile with increase of ... mph trap speed.

I was quite satisified with BSRs results:



Problem is BSR is only one with a "magic button", so it would need to be people who are local to a tuner with a G-Tech. Do a couple of runs, take it into tuner, come out and do a couple of runs again.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (R Salesman)

Quote, originally posted by R Salesman »
There's a difference between HP claims, and real-world HP gains.

In my opinion, I think that virtually all the ECU upgrading companies out there end up with pretty much the same horsepower increases.

Personally, I would LOVE to see someone like, ahem, Rolling, or Swedespeed, etc. do a comparison dyno for:
Evolve (PowerChips)
IPD (MTE)
BSR
HEICO

Yeah, so you're spending 4 grand. But oh, the word-of-mouth advertising you'd get for something like that!!!
http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

The only problem with that is there would be a clear winner and the would hurt the competiton probably to the point the winner could hike up their price, or on the other hand make the competiton step it up.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (cloaked)

Quote, originally posted by cloaked »
The only problem with that is there would be a clear winner and the would hurt the competiton probably to the point the winner could hike up their price, or on the other hand make the competiton step it up.

If someone is better, they should be able to charge more...


What we have now is fairly large price discrepancies, with no objective comparison testing done...

But, at the Nurburgring will will have two stage 2 RICA V70Rs (+ FMICs), a Full Evolve/Powerchips Power Pack (3.5" DP, exhaust), and a BSR with Filter/DP/Exhaust.

BSR has already edged out the Evolve tune here, even with the BSR carrying 100 extra pounds more weight...
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. ("R" Kelly)

Quote, originally posted by "R" Kelly »
If someone is better, they should be able to charge more...


What we have now is fairly large price discrepancies, with no objective comparison testing done...

But, at the Nurburgring will will have two stage 2 RICA V70Rs (+ FMICs), a Full Evolve/Powerchips Power Pack (3.5" DP, exhaust), and a BSR with Filter/DP/Exhaust.

BSR has already edged out the Evolve tune here, even with the BSR carrying 100 extra pounds more weight...
I think people want cars that are stock and the same driver and the same dyno to do the runs, each car would have to do dyno runs in stock form, and then after the reflash. We would then take the best run, then the driver would to 1320 passes on a drag strip and runs to lets say 120, and thats asking too much but i'd like to see it.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. ("R" Kelly)

To much a driver thing at the Ring.

The differences between cars are so small that it will often make the person hitting the throttle first win. I mean, we are talking 5-10 HP at the most here which won't show an X car length of a difference.
 

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Re: Got Superchip tuning,not a magic at all. (Johann)

Quote, originally posted by Johann »
To much a driver thing at the Ring.

Oh, I was referring to doing autobahn races on the way there or back home...
 
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