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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Rant on. Trying to search out the source of the low pitched drone that several have also dealt with. In reading several threads about the same noise, wonder if these three threads are the same basic sound?

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?181843-Anyone-else-with-driveline-issues&highlight=hum

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?165487-Road-Noise

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?166030-Hard-downshift&highlight=VCNA

Either way, I sent a note to VCNA conering the low pitched drone several have experienced and ID'd by Autoguide.com. I asked if they are working anything to solve this issue. If they knew nothing about it, would they please forward the issue to their engineering team. Added our thread and the thread from Autoguide,com that also heard, felt and commented on it.

The VCNA rep did not really answer the question in the mails we exchanged and the first response was really nothing more than "get it looked at" it's your individual issue" - rather than "yes, we've fielded several complaints and are working the issue". Nothing of the sort. So we go back and forth in a few mails and then the person sending the mails called me - now that I like. However his explanation on the phone was something right from the training playbook..."take it to the dealer and let them figure it out, the dealers will let us know if it can't be solved and you'll get action". Correct, we should but some of you are growling right now because you have done so with little results.

What he left me with: Keep lighting up the dealers with complaints and keep lighting up VCNA (or other country of origin). If enough complaints come from both avenues, then things should get addressed. Some of you are laughing right now.

It took me all of 3 minutes to draft the simple mail and they responded in less than 24hrs. They log all complaints and if a trend occurs, it gets attention.
If you're frustrated take a few minutes and help create a concentrated voice on this or other issues. I'm sceptical like anyone that our voices end up in the abiss and some may think sending mails is all for not but if we don't speak we (for sure) will not be heard.

For what it's worth. Rant off.
 

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I've been in contact (email and telephone) with VCNA for 4-5 months. Six visits to the dealer for the same problem, most recently in October.
Here's what VCNA wrote in November, "I regret your retailer has once again determined the vehicle in operating as per design. As a result, no repair is called for."
 

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I've been in contact (email and telephone) with VCNA for 4-5 months. Six visits to the dealer for the same problem, most recently in October.
Here's what VCNA wrote in November, "I regret your retailer has once again determined the vehicle in operating as per design. As a result, no repair is called for."
Have you considered invoking a Lemon Law?
 

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Have you considered invoking a Lemon Law?
Received another email from VCNA today, "As you know, your retailer has determined that your vehicle is performing as per design. We regret any inconvenience this matter may cause." Drivetrain buzzing and vibration, slow downshift, engine lugging and low MPG (16.2) is an "inconvenience?"

In my state, the limit for filing a Lemon Law claim is two years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"I regret your retailer has once again determined the vehicle in operating as per design. As a result, no repair is called for."
Hope you don't mind but used your example with the gentleman who called me from VCNA. As he tried to sell me "if there's no codes, no discernible noises for a tech to diagnose then there's no problem to fix." Ok, true. But there's more to consider.

That statement (of a few) really got me going and here's what I tossed back to him, "driveability is an issue, period. If a car is presented one way on a test drive and something out of the normal changes in the driveability of the car, then there's an issue. Noises and driveability are subjective to techs but it's real to the customer - the customer who won't be back if a product does not perform as advertised." I stressed changes that were out of the normal. He had no response and changed the line of discussion.

If they call your issue normal, then they're hiding behind subjectiveness. And we can all agree, we humans can be pretty darn demanding and everyone has a "noise" that we have to live with but this issue is prevalent.

We gotta keep lighting them up. Like any company, they hope the consumer will just give up and live with it - some will. Making it difficult saves them big $. I see their point, it's always about the bottom line. Don't agree, but do understand.

Doesn't need to be an obsession but don't give up, it cost nothing to write mails and make phone calls. And when they call you like they did me, respectfully give your side of it. Everything is logged and reviewed, even if they look at it and say "pffft, whatever".

Not a negative campaign, it's a campaign to reach resolution. Squeaky wheel....we should keep it on the healthy side though.
 

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I have something similar with mine though it's very faint, almost inaudible, at around 30-40 mph. My first guess is that it's the tires (Michelin) but I don't really know.
 

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Hope you don't mind but used your example with the gentleman who called me from VCNA. As he tried to sell me "if there's no codes, no discernible noises for a tech to diagnose then there's no problem to fix." Ok, true. But there's more to consider.

That statement (of a few) really got me going and here's what I tossed back to him, "driveability is an issue, period. If a car is presented one way on a test drive and something out of the normal changes in the driveability of the car, then there's an issue. Noises and driveability are subjective to techs but it's real to the customer - the customer who won't be back if a product does not perform as advertised." I stressed changes that were out of the normal. He had no response and changed the line of discussion.

If they call your issue normal, then they're hiding behind subjectiveness. And we can all agree, we humans can be pretty darn demanding and everyone has a "noise" that we have to live with but this issue is prevalent.

We gotta keep lighting them up. Like any company, they hope the consumer will just give up and live with it - some will. Making it difficult saves them big $. I see their point, it's always about the bottom line. Don't agree, but do understand.

Doesn't need to be an obsession but don't give up, it cost nothing to write mails and make phone calls. And when they call you like they did me, respectfully give your side of it. Everything is logged and reviewed, even if they look at it and say "pffft, whatever".

Not a negative campaign, it's a campaign to reach resolution. Squeaky wheel....we should keep it on the healthy side though.
The noise and vibration on my S60 is "discernible." The first time I complained, the dealer shop foreman erroneously diagnosed it as a loose exhaust heat shield. The third time, a factory rep called it "harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain" and suggested I drive only in sport mode. But in sport mode, the vehicle will sometime lurch forward when slowing to a stop.

Funny thing is, VCNA basically says "Your retailer says everything is operating normally." But a dealer service advisor once told me, "Keep complaining until Volvo issues a proper fix."
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Funny thing is, VCNA basically says "Your retailer says everything is operating normally." But a dealer service advisor once told me, "Keep complaining until Volvo issues a proper fix."
This is the ultimate goof on a consumer. The VCNA rep tells us to keep pressure on the dealer, who by the way reports the car is functioning as designed and the dealer who is sending VCNA a clean bill of health tells you to light them up? Irony in action, just add playful piano music and Groucho glasses.

Asked to drive in Sport mode? That alone shows this car is not performing as sold. Sure hope you're still on the dealer. They need to step up and tell VCNA that there IS a problem before you have any juice to get an answer. Without it nothing will happen.
 

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This is the ultimate goof on a consumer. The VCNA rep tells us to keep pressure on the dealer, who by the way reports the car is functioning as designed and the dealer who is sending VCNA a clean bill of health tells you to light them up? Irony in action, just add playful piano music and Groucho glasses.

Asked to drive in Sport mode? That alone shows this car is not performing as sold. Sure hope you're still on the dealer. They need to step up and tell VCNA that there IS a problem before you have any juice to get an answer. Without it nothing will happen.
The dealer is in the same fix. They apparently have three cars in their own fleet (service department loaner, service manager's vehicle and parts department manager's vehicle) that exhibit the same problem. They seem to be at a loss as to what to do since the "all-knowing" TCM throws no error codes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The dealer is in the same fix. They apparently have three cars in their own fleet (service department loaner, service manager's vehicle and parts department manager's vehicle) that exhibit the same problem. They seem to be at a loss as to what to do since the "all-knowing" TCM throws no error codes.
Great, as someone posted before getting them to acknowledge the issue is Step 1. Now, let the service manager know you contacted VCNA and VCNA says they, THE DEALERSHIP has to tell VCNA they have an unsolved problem - not you.

I'd dial VCNA from the service managers office, put 'em on speaker and let the two of them hear each other lay responsibility on the other - that would be priceless.

Point is, get them to talk and get out of the middle, it's not our responsibility to fix their shortcomings in communication - as in lack thereof.

I will carry this banner too at the first service visit. Just need time to get it there.
 

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Update. Took delivery of a 2012 S60T5 in April 2011. Since then, plagued with annoying drivetrain buzzing and vibration, slow downshift, engine lugging at low speeds and low MPG. Six visits to the dealer in 21 months, most recently in October 2012. The problems persist despite three TCM software upgrades, a CEM software upgrade, a fuel pump software upgrade, a transmission adaptation and gear indication mode test. Volvo Cars North America claims "the vehicle is operating within design specifications."

I've been on four roadtests with dealership and factory personnel so far. 1. A service advisor at the dealership confirmed the problem. 2. The dealership shop foreman thought it might be a loose exhaust heat shield. 3. A Volvo factory rep said it was "harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain." 4. The dealership had the car for 10 days while a second technician reconfirmed the problem. VCNA called today. They want me to take the car back to the dealership for a fifth roadtest with a second factory rep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
12s60

Keep after 'em. Others have recently had good luck with being persistent. Shouldn't be a "fifth" visit to get something like this under control but the dealership is up against what I believe to be a poor design / engineering. Hopefully as they solve your issue, solutions come for others.

Take a print out of this blog (& Autoguide.com) and others here who have complained of the same issue. Anything might help.
 

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With our first Volvo, an AWD S70, within the first six weeks of ownership, we had a new issue each week, to include leaving my wife sit on the side of the road. I told our dealer I did not want the car back and they put us into another car and we have been doing business with the same dealership since.

Clearly, there is a recognized issue. The dealership should take the lead on customer service. It appears all of the attempts to fix have been software related and not hardware related yet, and repeated road tests, while appreciated are not resolving the issue to your satisfaction. The dealership should explore options to get out of the vehicle, even though it will be challenging after a year.
 

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In June, my 2012 S60 was at the dealership for 10 days (June 28 - July 9) for extensive road tests. As explained to me, the top technician at the dealership drove the car to and from work for several days and verified all my concerns. Don't understand why VCNA is now requesting a fifth roadtest.

This is my second Volvo, the first was a 1997 S70. In the interim, I've had a 2005 Audi S4 and a 2008 BMW 328i. Love the exterior styling and interior comfort of the S60. Just wish VCNA would honor the warranty and repair the vehicle.
 

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How this works is that you must INSIST on meeting with the factory area service rep.
He covers a large territory so an appt will be necessary
Drive the car with him and show HIM the issue.

Unfortunately it will depend on your area rep
We here (PA/NJ) probably have the best in the country, Aldo is an enthusiast, an engineer and a general good guy all around
Some (such as the guy from the DC/MD/VA area rep) are jokes and don't care less and don't have a lot of knowledge.
It also helps being 2 hours from Rockleigh where they can send one of the Volvo engineers down if necessary.

Being in OK I wish you good luck! (I don't know who your area rep is)
 

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How this works is that you must INSIST on meeting with the factory area service rep.
He covers a large territory so an appt will be necessary
Drive the car with him and show HIM the issue.

Unfortunately it will depend on your area rep
We here (PA/NJ) probably have the best in the country, Aldo is an enthusiast, an engineer and a general good guy all around
Some (such as the guy from the DC/MD/VA area rep) are jokes and don't care less and don't have a lot of knowledge.
It also helps being 2 hours from Rockleigh where they can send one of the Volvo engineers down if necessary.

Being in OK I wish you good luck! (I don't know who your area rep is)
Prior to the 10-day roadtest in June, I did go out on a drive with a factory rep. He called it "harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain."

Last night, the "check engine" light started flashing. Another trip to the dealer is in order, this will be the seventh in 21 months.
 

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Strange how the factory rep calls it "harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain" yet at the same time VCNA says the car is "operating within design specifications". Are these cars supposed to operate with a harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain? I don't think so.

I don't know if you have the lemon law in your state but I would seriously consider that or have an attorney write a letter to VCNA and the dealership. What they have put you through is ridiculous.
 

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I'd agree. Sounds as if VCNA is stating that a harmonic imbalance in the drivetrain was how they designed it. Keep the pressure on the factory rep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I told our dealer I did not want the car back and they put us into another car and we have been doing business with the same dealership since.

Clearly, there is a recognized issue. The dealership should take the lead on customer service.
+1 and +1

Dealer experience is a major reason I'm happy to go with a Volvo product.

Dealer, say again, dealer must ID issues to corporate and fight for us, frustrating as it might be for them. Who wants a headache? Easier for a service manager to say "sorry, can't figure it out" and "performs as required" than to fight an exhausting battle on our behalf. But it's part of the price we paid for the auto and they need to deliver...if not with solutions then support to corporate to solve the issue. Period.
 
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