SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, my issues with the IPD R boost gauge have kind of pushed this to the front of my mind, and I can't seem to find a good central thread for this kind of info, especially for the P2R's.

Forgive me for my inquisitive mind, but there are tons of gauges available, and I'm curious how "vital" each category is to keep an eye on, if anyone has installed one and likes it, and how they installed it.

This is a potentially massive and informative thread, so I hope lots of folks will contribute! I'm interested in what adapters/senders various gauges require to install, and what the best routes for wires/tubing would be for them.

The boost gauge category is chock full if you search, so I'm skipping that :D

Water temp gauge: The R already has one, but it's a unnumbered gauge. Should I need one? I'm guessing you have to get a radiator line adapter with the sensor mount for this to work right.

EGT [Exhaust gas temp]: Hot exhaust gasses are a good thing when it comes to scavenging, but they can also be a symptom of running too lean and...boom! Would this be a good one to do when the shop puts on a custom exhaust? How high on the priority list should it be?

AFR [Air fuel ratio]: This one has been covered a fair amount as well. How do narrow band and wide band AFR's compare on our caRs? Is a wideband worth the extra money? This will also help diagnose if you are running lean/rich.

Oil pressure: I know our caRs have a warning light for this, and if you get that light, you're basically $%^&ed. More importantly, how does one install the oil pressure gauge, since our filters don't seem like they'd accept the sandwich adapters some aftermarket companies offer.

Oil temp: Should we worry about this one? As far as install, same as oil pressure above. Where/how do you install it?

Fuel pressure gauge: This definitely seems important if you're getting tuned for really high output, but would it really be worth it if you're staying stock or lightly tuned/modded? Also, where/how does this install on our caRs?

Transmission temp gauge: this really only applies to us GT owners, and I'm guessing it's somewhat similar to the oil temp gauge. Anyone put one in or have suggestions on this one?

Volt gauge: I'm running the factory sound system and don't have NAV, so I'm not too worried about power consumption. However, I believe these are handy if you want an underdrive pulley, have lots of sound system extras, or just want to be cool. The AFR I'm looking at also monitors the voltage, so I'll have that covered, but someone might want a designated Volt gauge. Easy install??

Air intake temp gauge: There are several locations to take this. The most rational place is the intercooler out endtank area to see how cool you're getting the intake charge. I'm looking at a gauge that measures both the in temp and out temp on the intercooler, just cause I'm that guy. It's made by Prosport, if anyone wants one. Anyways, install method??

Thanks in advance for your contributions!! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
If you were running a custom tune with custom components and tracking your car, I would worry most of this. Are you? If not the only thing you should invest in is oil pressure, oil temp, and water temp.

Since the stock ecu has a fuel pressure sensor and puts the car in limp mode if the fuel pressure goes below a threshold, I wouldn't worry about AFR. Unless you think you're going to get a massive fuel leak, your air metering sensors are crazy off (mass air flow, mass absolute pressure, etc), your injectors are ready to kick the bucket, or you're tuning your car. If you're not tuning it yourself, a narrow band will do just fine. But why do you need it? Do you know what afr your R (or your chipped R) typically runs under full load and full boost? If you can't answer this without looking it up, don't worry about it. Having an information overload won't do anything but make you paranoid or question your instruments.

Also EGT's will be relatively constant (under the same loads, of course), unless you have a serious fueling or ignition issue. If you get a higher flowing exhaust, egt's should be cooler all things being held constant. Are you getting a custom tune/doing it yourself/ or using custom parts (off the shelf turbo, etc)? If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

The water temp gauge is heavily damped (and the signal isn't linear, after the midway point there could be a 30-50 degree F variance before it moves again. This is the case in almost all cars). That would be good to have, but not a necessity, the stock gauge will do just fine. The car also gives you audible alerts when you're overheating. Will you spot a gauge before you hear something? 9 out of 10 times, you won't. If you do do it, make sure you get an electronic sending unit, get a coolant coupler with a threaded water temp sensor, cut a coolant hose in half, and do it there. Or you could tee it off a line. That's the easiest way to do it. The reason you want an electronic sending unit is because you don't want to have anymore hot liquids coming into the cabin than need be. If you get into an accident and totally rocked, your face could be melting off and you won't know until you're in a recovery room (extreme situation with unlikely odds, but who expects to get in an accident on the day that they do?).

Oil pressure and oil temp are two good gauges to have. Get an oil filter sandwich or an oil filter relocator. They always have 2 to 4 npt ports. Once again use an electronic sending unit. Oil should never be in the passenger cabin. If your engine and drivetrain never had a drop of oil on it, I'd say, go for it. But you know in a real-world situation oil gets freaking everywhere. Do it once, do it right, and save your face from melting off. The best part about oil temp gauges is that the oil generally quite a bit after the water temps leveled out. So it's reassuring knowing when you car is at operating temps before beating it.

Trans temp? Can't help you there, I know almost nothing about automatics besides the basics.

Volt gauge? Nope. Most radar detectors have a setting where you can check that. I've only needed that function once when my alternator was acting screwy, and a free multimeter from harbor freight could've worked just fine. When you first set up your system you only need to check it once or twice. You don't need a gauge to tell you, all the time. The instrument panel will let you know when voltage drops below the threshold.

Air intake temp? You can just use one of those obd scanner monitor things to check the intake air temp sensor, if you're doing testing and modifying your intercooler or ducting. You really don't need an iat gauge running full time. Spoiler alert: if it's hot outside, your intake temps are going to be higher. Is that something you need to quantify? Plus where are you going to put all these gauges if you plan on using every single one?

Here's a strictly functional setup that I am getting for my miata. It's ugly as anything, but it works and at the track I can set the threshold alerts so I'm not staring at gauges and slamming into crap. http://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=59775
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I certainly won't install everything or even try. There's simply not enough room to practically do it [though you could probably get close]. However, the gauges people choose for their cars will be different as they will have different applications, and that's why I listed a whole bunch. I also didn't know what the car have or didn't have as far as built in warnings, invisible gauges etc. However, I'm a bit of a geek, and the idea of seeing some of these things is kind of cool, and some can help with maintenance or reveal a potential issue in the car. I'm not looking for overkill.

I don't personally plan on wringing every single hp out of my car that I can. I simply don't have the time or money. So some of these applications are moot for my setup, but not for other folks with racing or higher hp/tq ambitions.

At most, I plan on doing hd coilpacks, 3" turboback exhaust, FMIC, and maybe a light tune to maximize those upgrades but not add too much extra stress/strain on components. The only possible reason I could see doing something like a turbo is if the stock one was on its way out, then I might consider something like the Viva hybrid, but let's hope it doesn't come to that anytime soon. Certainly nothing too drastic beyond a "stage 2" or 2+.

I see water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure as the three more "necessary" or high priority gauges that I would want in the car regardless of whether I upgrade any further or not.

AFR and intake gauges are cool, but they aren't necessary or vital. Trans oil temp can be a good thing for GT owners as the cooler the oil is for the GT, the better for the transmission. The gauge would go well if one wanted a trans oil cooler installed. If I do get around to that FMIC, I'd love an in/out temp comparison too see how well the IC is working in various temps. It's just neat, but that's completely my personal taste. AFR could help identify if the tune is not properly mapped, I suppose.

EGT, fuel pressure, and volt are more "cool factor" gauges than practical gauges for most R's, I'm guessing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,266 Posts
Water temp gauge: The R already has one, but it's a unnumbered gauge. Should I need one? I'm guessing you have to get a radiator line adapter with the sensor mount for this to work right.

AFR [Air fuel ratio]: This one has been covered a fair amount as well. How do narrow band and wide band AFR's compare on our caRs? Is a wideband worth the extra money? This will also help diagnose if you are running lean/rich.

Fuel pressure gauge: This definitely seems important if you're getting tuned for really high output, but would it really be worth it if you're staying stock or lightly tuned/modded? Also, where/how does this install on our caRs?

Volt gauge: I'm running the factory sound system and don't have NAV, so I'm not too worried about power consumption. However, I believe these are handy if you want an underdrive pulley, have lots of sound system extras, or just want to be cool. The AFR I'm looking at also monitors the voltage, so I'll have that covered, but someone might want a designated Volt gauge. Easy install??

Air intake temp gauge: There are several locations to take this. The most rational place is the intercooler out endtank area to see how cool you're getting the intake charge. I'm looking at a gauge that measures both the in temp and out temp on the intercooler, just cause I'm that guy. It's made by Prosport, if anyone wants one. Anyways, install method??
All of these and more are available in a Scanguage II that connects to your OBDII port, plus you can pull & clear generic codes with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
All of these and more are available in a Scanguage II that connects to your OBDII port, plus you can pull & clear generic codes with it.
Woah. Woah. Stop trying to de-Honda my thread here!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
or for the real tech geek, get a bluetooth odbII connector and run a odbII reading from your smartphone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
or for the real tech geek, get a bluetooth odbII connector and run a odbII reading from your smartphone.
now...if you paired that BT obdII program with a tablet [iPad, etc] that mounts where the stereo would go...that could be legit cool. Heck it could replace the stereo too these days...

However, we're wandering. The scangauge sounds awesome, but I kind of like the old round gauges. I know, I'm being anal and anti-technology.

Also, I'm guessing the obdii reads the IAT from the intake pipe after the filter, which is far different than the actual air temps going into the cylinders. There's a lot of heat soak between the pipe and the throttle body. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Oil pressure and oil temp are two good gauges to have. Get an oil filter sandwich or an oil filter relocator. They always have 2 to 4 npt ports. Once again use an electronic sending unit. Oil should never be in the passenger cabin. If your engine and drivetrain never had a drop of oil on it, I'd say, go for it. But you know in a real-world situation oil gets freaking everywhere. Do it once, do it right, and save your face from melting off. The best part about oil temp gauges is that the oil generally quite a bit after the water temps leveled out. So it's reassuring knowing when you car is at operating temps before beating it.
Anyone know what type of oil filter sandwich or relocator works on our cars?? Sandwich sounds like a better option as it requires less movement of stock components, but does Volvo use a proprietary size/thread for their filter housing?

I would definitely only recommend units with electronic senders. Especially when they're quite affordable these days.

Thanks for all the great info and input, thegrapist!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,184 Posts
For a properly built (and tuned) R where I had to limit myself to 3 gauges, I'd go with boost, oil pressure and oil temperature. If I never tracked my car or didn't live in a hot climate where I put the car under a lot of sustained aggressive driving, I'd also consider wideband A/F, or just have the 2 mentioned gauges (I personally find A/F less useful if you have a proper tune, and a distraction when in my line of sight).

I'd rate oil pressure a higher gauge priority than oil temperature.

Another one I'd add to your list is a gauge to monitor the rear Haldex AOC fluid temperature. When it reaches 100degrees C, it disables your AWD; being able to monitor the temp in real time would help me avoid an "oh sh*t!" moment on the track... I would even be OK with a 3-color LED display which would help me determine the rough fluid temp (green up to 75deg C, amber 76-90, red 91+, or somethingl ike that).

I care less on the other gauges on your list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #11

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So, part of my intent of starting this thread, besides straight up information for those looking at putting gauges in their cars, is also to help folks like me determine what's important to keep track of, and what's straight up excessive [but fun or cool or whatever]. Not everyone wants 3+ gauges in their cars, which is cool. They like the stock look. Some guys want 12+ [see above, courtesy of R.Photo], in which is there is ALWAYS a way to put them in, regardless if you want music in the car or can see your passengers and out the front windshield.

I don't plan on tracking my car ever. It's my DD, so I don't want to risk blowing something up on a fun day :D

Me? I have the boost gauge in the vent pod [thanks, George!]. I'd like to put oil pressure and temp in the cubby hole space.

There are potentially 4 more slots available without blocking any sightlines or putting things on top of the dash.
1. Doorpod [@Viva/CFW]
2. Center ventpod [bpray has them]
3&4. bezel pods [custom fab]

And that's where the, for lack of a better word, "cool" gauges could go.

Will I use all of those? Nope. But they're there if I ever wanted to. There are, of course, Apillar mounts and dash pods too. But I digress...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
For a properly built (and tuned) R where I had to limit myself to 3 gauges, I'd go with boost, oil pressure and oil temperature. If I never tracked my car or didn't live in a hot climate where I put the car under a lot of sustained aggressive driving, I'd also consider wideband A/F, or just have the 2 mentioned gauges (I personally find A/F less useful if you have a proper tune, and a distraction when in my line of sight).

I'd rate oil pressure a higher gauge priority than oil temperature.

Another one I'd add to your list is a gauge to monitor the rear Haldex AOC fluid temperature. When it reaches 100degrees C, it disables your AWD; being able to monitor the temp in real time would help me avoid an "oh sh*t!" moment on the track... I would even be OK with a 3-color LED display which would help me determine the rough fluid temp (green up to 75deg C, amber 76-90, red 91+, or somethingl ike that).

I care less on the other gauges on your list.
George, would one use a oil temp gauge for the haldex fluid??

You don't happen to sell a oil filter sandwich or relocater @Viva for the P2's, do you??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Where's the gauge that tells me where I'm going?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
All of these and more are available in a Scanguage II that connects to your OBDII port, plus you can pull & clear generic codes with it.
The only problem with that is that obd 2 ports have ridiculously low resolution and bandwidth. That and the scangauge is only as good as your sensors. If your sensors are beat, so are your readings. But then again that goes with everything else.

Anyone know what type of oil filter sandwich or relocator works on our cars?? Sandwich sounds like a better option as it requires less movement of stock components, but does Volvo use a proprietary size/thread for their filter housing?

I would definitely only recommend units with electronic senders. Especially when they're quite affordable these days.

Thanks for all the great info and input, thegrapist!
Total brain fart. I completely forgot. Since we have paper filters, this will be a bit more difficult. I know this kit works on mzr and duratec motors. I have a sneaking suspicion it may work for volvo's also. If you have time, I would disassemble your oil filter cartridge housing and check if it fits. Otherwise you'll have to tee off the oil pressure sensor.

http://www.streetunit.com/Spin_On_Oil_Filter_Conversion_Kit_MS6_MS3_CX7_p/sums6soofc.htm

Here's pictures and a how to:

http://www.fordfusionclub.com/index.php?topic=146390.0
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,184 Posts
George, would one use a oil temp gauge for the haldex fluid??

You don't happen to sell a oil filter sandwich or relocater @Viva for the P2's, do you??
You'd need a 0 - 100degree Celsius temp gauge. Oil temp gauges could work, depending on their temp ranges, but they normally go up to 150degree C or higher.

I don't have anything available "off the shelf right now". Which gauge are you planning to use? I know the Blitz DC II oil pressure gauge comes with some installation hardware.


Here's what Ursay did when installing his Blitz DCII oil pressure gauge:
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?70198-For-those-who-have-Blitz-DC-II-Oil-Pressure-gauge
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
The only problem with that is that obd 2 ports have ridiculously low resolution and bandwidth. That and the scangauge is only as good as your sensors. If your sensors are beat, so are your readings. But then again that goes with everything else.



Total brain fart. I completely forgot. Since we have paper filters, this will be a bit more difficult. I know this kit works on mzr and duratec motors. I have a sneaking suspicion it may work for volvo's also. If you have time, I would disassemble your oil filter cartridge housing and check if it fits. Otherwise you'll have to tee off the oil pressure sensor.

http://www.streetunit.com/Spin_On_Oil_Filter_Conversion_Kit_MS6_MS3_CX7_p/sums6soofc.htm

Here's pictures and a how to:

http://www.fordfusionclub.com/index.php?topic=146390.0
When I change my oil in 2k miles or so, I'll check to see. However, what's bugging me more is the filter placement on our cars. they're recessed in that small hole in the oil pan. I don't see where the spin on kit would actually fit our cars...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,157 Posts
When I change my oil in 2k miles or so, I'll check to see. However, what's bugging me more is the filter placement on our cars. they're recessed in that small hole in the oil pan. I don't see where the spin on kit would actually fit our cars...
Just get a T connector pipe for the port that the stock oil pressure switch uses (this is what xenophobic describes in the thread that George provided a link for). I believe it is threaded M14x1.5.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Just get a T connector pipe for the port that the stock oil pressure switch uses (this is what xenophobic describes in the thread that George provided a link for). I believe it is threaded M14x1.5.
Do they actually sell these anywhere or will I have to have one fabbed for me?

And would I be able to get oil temp off the same T fitting?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top