[TG]

I was going to get Bilstein B8 shocks and struts a while ago but I have a bunch of things to fix and I’m still evaluating doing all at once… (mainly axles, shocks, shocks mounts, and painting brake calipers, not sure about replacing bushings with urethane and getting bigger brakes at this point)

However I’ve heard that Bilstein B8 raise the car by a good bit (nKreig had his done not long ago but on AWD). I don’t know how much over the OEM...

Having a FWD, does anyone know if the Bilstein will raise the car on a FWD and by how much?
Pics of your FWD car on Bilstein would help greatly!

I also can understand why it would raise the car in the front because the spring seats on the strut assembly but I have a hard time understanding why it would in the rear since the springs are isolated from the shocks. Please enlighten me

 

[Durry]

i dont think it raise the rear..

it raise the front of the car at least 1/2 inch - 1 inch (with bilstein HD) ...this tend to happen on the p2 platform..why?? i really don't know.

 

[TG]

Ha! someone's responding

Thanks Durry

Are you serious a whole 1"?!!!
If it doesn't affect the rear it could have the good effect to balance the stance but I really like the way it is now in the front. What would be the point to lower 1.4" only to raise it back up 1"

I have a P1 btw... I'm not sure if it's any different. I can't imagine it would be unless they decided to make the OE higher in the first place or change the spring rate ever slightly so...

 

[Durry]

dont quote me on the 1 inch but it was something like that....

anyways did you found some sort of "good deal" on bilstein struts, im on front struts shopping but damn those bilstein sports are expensive...

265-300$ each strut :0 ! which to me sounds completely ridiculous ..

 

[primodevil]

What about koni's or kw?

 

[TG]

Yeah, I hear you guys. Bilstein are really good stuff!
I also thought I'v read that they are preferable with H&R springs. I could be wrong.
I don't wan't to compromise the lowering too much though.

I'll have to dig further at alternatives but I still wish I could see a Fwd with the Bilstein and some lowering springs combination.

 

[kova]

However I've heard that Bilstein B8 raise the car by a good bit (nKreig had his done not long ago but on AWD). I don't know how much over the OEM...

Having a FWD, does anyone know if the Bilstein will raise the car on a FWD and by how much?
Pics of your FWD car on Bilstein would help greatly!

From the Bilstein FAQs:

Do BILSTEIN shock absorbers push the car up?
The greater extension force of BILSTEIN gas pressure shock absorbers will at the most raise the vehicle slightly, compared with worn-out original shocks.

http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/search-service/faqs.html

Based on my friend's experience I would say they raise the car 0.3" - 0.5" on H&R Sport springs that lower the car app. 1.3", so you end up lowered 0.8" - 1.0" with those springs.

(0.8" after the install, 1.0" once the car settles)

 

[primodevil]

From the Bilstein FAQs:

Do BILSTEIN shock absorbers push the car up?
The greater extension force of BILSTEIN gas pressure shock absorbers will at the most raise the vehicle slightly, compared with worn-out original shocks.

http://www.bilstein.de/en-uk/products/search-service/faqs.html

Based on my friend's experience I would say they raise the car 0.3" - 0.5" on H&R Sport springs that lower the car app. 1.3", so you end up lowered 0.8" - 1.0" with those springs.

(0.8" after the install, 1.0" once the car settles)

again, almost making the money you spent on your lowered car nearly wasted....

 

[kova]

again, almost making the money you spent on your lowered car nearly wasted....

It all depends whether you lower your car for the looks or for the handling.

If handling is your priority then Bilstein B8 and H&R (or Eibach Pro kit or similar springs) are excellent choice.
If your priority is to minimize the fender gap then any coilover will do, but be carefull what you wish for..

 

[TG]

(0.8" after the install, 1.0" once the car settles)

Thx Kova, this is helpful!
You mean the other way around right? 0.8" once the car settles...?

Yeah, I initially installed my H&R springs for performance reasons as I did most of my mods until recently. I wanted to lower the center of gravity of my car. However now that I have 18" wheels and it's been lowered I must admit it's hard to feel like going back up even if I would still get Bilstein for performance reasons and not look...

I'm also looking to reduce a lot of suspension noise I've been having in the rear since the install of my H&R springs. It's as if the springs never settled. It's nothing too annoying but you can tell something isn't perfect in the rear. It could be my chocks are too old after 48k miles.

Kova, do you also know if the logic is true that it should not affect the rear elevation since springs are separated from shocks? This could realign my car though I don't know if that's better or worse for performance . . . Worse ion acceleration but probably better once in motion . . . I don't know....

 

[kova]

You mean the other way around right? 0.8" once the car settles...?

No, initially the car is lowered less (0.8") and once it settles it goes a little bit lower (app. 1") compared to stock.

Kova, do you also know if the logic is true that it should not affect the rear elevation since springs are separated from shocks? This could realign my car though I don't know if that's better or worse for performance . . . Worse ion acceleration but probably better once in motion . . . I don't know....

Normally the height of your car is defined by the springs while shocks are there to dump motions of the springs and do not affect the height. However, sporty gas shocks tend to raise the car a little compared to stock shocks because of higher extension force. The difference is little if your stock shocks are new but can be noticeable if your stock shocks are already worn out at the moment you are replacing them with B8 shocks.

You shouldn't be worried, the effect is practically identical on both sides so the elevation will not be affected, especially if you use H&R sport springs which usually have little more lowering on front then on rear.

 

[TG]

No, initially the car is lowered less (0.8") and once it settles it goes a little bit lower (app. 1") compared to stock.

Got it, we're on the same page except you where talking about how much it is lowers where as I was still in my mind talking about how much it would raise from where I am today. . . I get what you're saying now, my mistake . . .

However, sporty gas shocks tend to raise the car a little compared to stock shocks because of higher extension force. The difference is little if your stock shocks are new but can be noticeable if your stock shocks are already worn out at the moment you are replacing them with B8 shocks.

It's hard to think that the shocks can elevate the car in the rear but I trust you on that...

I also like the point you're implying which I never thought of. Even if I replace the shocks/struts with OEM I'm still going to raise the car a little because mine might be worn out anyway. But again it's hard to see how the shocks affects car height since the car rest on the springs... I've always thought of shocks as just dampening effect (avoid the car to bounce when going over bumps or road imperfection), never as part of the car "suspension" when still. That's why when the shocks are worn out the car bounces more. It sounds like it is not that simple. I've got to learn more about this...

 

[kova]

It's hard to think that the shocks can elevate the car in the rear but I trust you on that...

It works pretty much the same way as in the front. The fact that shocks an prings are not axially aligned is not really important for that.

But again it's hard to see how the shocks affects car height since the car rest on the springs... I've always thought of shocks as just dampening effect (avoid the car to bounce when going over bumps or road imperfection), never as part of the car "suspension" when still. That's why when the shocks are worn out the car bounces more. It sounds like it is not that simple. I've got to learn more about this...

You may consider the shock "preloaded" in the "zero" position (when car is standing still). In other words the shocks are already generating some upward extension force in that position which is strong enough to help springs not to contract that much hence you get less lowering.

I hope you get what I mean - I'm affraid this topic puts my knowledge of english to it's limits..

 

[TG]

You may consider the shock "preloaded" in the "zero" position (when car is standing still). In other words the shocks are already generating some upward extension force in that position which is strong enough to help springs not to contract that much hence you get less lowering.

I hope you get what I mean - I'm affraid this topic puts my knowledge of english to it's limits..

Ha ha... That's alright, I very much get what you mean. Thanks again!
It makes a lot of sense. I just didn't realize shocks where active when the car is still.

 

[kova]

Ha ha... That's alright, I very much get what you mean. Thanks again!
It makes a lot of sense. I just didn't realize shocks where active when the car is still.

No problem.

 

[pczeilon]

It all depends whether you lower your car for the looks or for the handling.

If handling is your priority then Bilstein B8 and H&R (or Eibach Pro kit or similar springs) are excellent choice.
If your priority is to minimize the fender gap then any coilover will do, but be careful what you wish for..

+1 I love you guys but sometimes all this emphasis on "gap" & "how low can I go" is a bit much.

But again it's hard to see how the shocks affects car height since the car rest on the springs... I've always thought of shocks as just dampening effect (avoid the car to bounce when going over bumps or road imperfection), never as part of the car "suspension" when still.

This is basically true. Once you get the Bilstein shocks in your hand you will see what everyone is talking about though. Their high pressure gas construction forces the shock to extend with some force. Not so with Koni & most others. Years ago I measured this force on a bathroom scale & I believe it was somewhere around 40lbs (don't quote me, it's been awhile). This means your ride height would change the same amount as if your corner weight was reduced by 40lbs. Not too significant considering the car weighs 3000+ pounds. Probably adding just one passenger would put you back to the original height. Why don't you post the measured force back here when you get the shocks & enlighten us all with the exact numbers.

 

[TG]

+1 I love you guys but sometimes all this emphasis on "gap" & "how low can I go" is a bit much.

Funny you say that because the way I read our conversation is that Kova, and I, were kind of implying that performance is still our priority . . . though I can't deny I like my front wheel arrangement at the moment

This is basically true. Once you get the Bilstein shocks in your hand you will see what everyone is talking about though. Their high pressure gas construction forces the shock to extend with some force. Not so with Koni & most others. Years ago I measured this force on a bathroom scale & I believe it was somewhere around 40lbs (don't quote me, it's been awhile). This means your ride height would change the same amount as if your corner weight was reduced by 40lbs. Not too significant considering the car weighs 3000+ pounds. Probably adding just one passenger would put you back to the original height. Why don't you post the measured force back here when you get the shocks & enlighten us all with the exact numbers.

If that's simply true I have a hard time believing the shocks would raise the car by 1/2" over the OEM. The force would have to be greater. Than again it's all about balance when on a spring so maybe
The struts are a different story just because where the spring bed reside on the strut will directly affect car height so there isn't much debate here. It's just a question of dimensions at that point. If Bilstein increased the dimension of the strut below the spring bed area than it will raise the car by that much.

If I go that route I'll definitely take some measurements on all and share it here

 

[kova]

Funny you say that because the way I read our conversation is that Kova, and I, were kind of implying that performance is still our priority . . . though I can't deny I like my front wheel arrangement at the moment

I don't think he was aiming at us..

 

[TG]

I don't think he was aiming at us..

Ha ha, my apology then!!!... I too misunderstood (the "but")

 

[nkreig]

again, almost making the money you spent on your lowered car nearly wasted....

It would not negate the expense on lowering the car. You have to consider the Bilsteins and the Eibachs or H&R's work in combination with much improved performance compared to the stock springs paired to the Bilsteins. Different spring rates play an important role in this. You still get close to a 1" drop lowering your center of gravity as well. If I could, I would take any of you guys for a ride in my car now because I know all the questions that were floating around in my head prior to dropping the $$ I spent on this setup were put to rest on the first drive after install. After my alignment and a few more drives I literally fell in love with my car again! One turn at 60mph that otherwise would be taken at 40mph without breaking a sweat inspires confidence that makes that $$ spent justifiable. I recommend just pulling the trigger...you won't regret it.