SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I cut off the front hose fitting (return, I think) on the fuel tank in order to get it out past the body flange. That may have been a mistake. I can't get the rest of it out, even using an easy out and heat. I thought it was threaded in. Maybe not? Any ideas on how to get it loose?


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
bk;

That fitting is indeed threaded into the larger soldered-in fitting, and should be removed to allow Tank removal/installation...unfortunately, it looks like you cut the hex off, so you have made it quite difficult, as there is no easy way to get any torque on it now to remove i...easy-out, or drill and tap, are about all I can think of...

Good Hunting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ron,

It had the hex on it when I started but it rounded fairly quickly because it's in there so solidly. I cut the tube, not the hex. I've been alternating PB Blaster and heat but it hasn't moved yet. The brass is so soft, the easy out can't get a grip. If the threads on the soldered-in fitting are the larger diameter, I'll move next to drilling it out incrementally and eventually splitting the remainder with a cutoff blade and chisel. I just don't want to mess up the threads. And then it'll be a challenge to find a replacement fitting. Any idea offhand what size the threads are? I can cobble something together that won't leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
bk;

...it's a good place for a "tubing wrench"....an open-end wrench will round off a brass hex in short order...as for size of the thread, I can remember precisely, and I havent written it down, so I wont give unconfirmed info other than to not it is imperial, not metric, but that should be somewhat obvious...

Good Hunting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
Based upon my 140 experience, that looks like the fuel return line fitting. But, you need to confirm that since the fittings on the 1800 tank are in different locations compared to the 140 and are configured differently. The reason I say that It looks like the return line is that the pump suction line on a D jet car is large diameter.

Does this look like the screw in part of the fitting that is messed up?

http://212.247.61.152/us/main.aspx?page=article&artno=954336

If so, VP provides the details on the thread sizes. You could grind off the projecting remains of the fitting to allow tank removal and then drill out the fitting a little undersize which may then allow you to clean up the existing threads by chasing with a tap. If that is successful then you can just replace with the VP fitting (also probably available from a local supplier). If you can't clean up the threads then you could drill to the next size up (hope there is enough material in the base!) and tap to fit the next size up fitting with a 1/8 NPT on the other end - or just put a plug in if you are still planning to delete the D jet.

If the threads are really buggered up, after taking steps to clean the tank so you don't have explosive vapours you can unsolder the base fitting and solder a patch in place of the fitting (only if this is the return line). However, this permanently commits you to the D jet delete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
bk;...it's a good place for a "tubing wrench"....an open-end wrench will round off a brass hex in short order.
I used a box end, six point wrench but the fitting is so stuck that the hex part was the first to go. That's why I cut off the barb. The rest of the butchering came from using various tools, including Vice Grips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
142Guy,

That's not the fitting. The one in the tank is a hose barb, where a 5/16" hose slips over it. I'm thinking it's the return line but I'm not sure. The fitting is part of a larger brass fitting, maybe 7/8-1", that screws into the threads that are apparently soldered into the tank. That's not what the parts catalog shows. Once I get it out, I'll most likely need to cobble together some reducing bushings to get back to 5/16" hose. I have tried to see the inside of the tank with a bore scope to make sure I won't be drilling into some internal bit but with the baffles and long filler neck, I can't get there. I may take off the 90° supply fitting to see if the internal view improves.

It also occurred to me that heating the fitting might melt the solder holding in the thread boss, so I think I'll quit that approach while I'm still ahead. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
I sort of recognize the large fitting because my 140 appears to have something similar on the return line. I remember this in particular because after 'rehabiing' my tank and having it pressure tested that fitting (which was the return line pump overflow) was leaking and had to be resoldered. For the return line, the early D jet cars had a T fitting on the tank to accept return from the regulator and overpressure from the pump. I think in 1972 Volvo / Bosch ditched the external pump over flow line instead providing for internal recirculation of the fuel in the pump in the event of an external blockage. On these later cars (your 1973) the T fitting was eliminated on the tank and likely switched to a simple barbed (probably elbow) fitting. The give away would be the size of the barbed fitting. The return line is 5/16" (I think its actually 8 mm; but, 5/16 does the trick). The suction line from the tank to the D jet pump is much larger, closer to 1/2" - at least on the 140E which uses the same pump as the 1800E
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Good info. Thanks for lending your experience. I haven't had a chance to mess with it today but will head out shortly and give it another few shots of PB Blaster. Then try tomorrow. If I can get it out without messing up the big piece, I can tap it to a larger size NPT. On the supply line to the pump, I assume there is something inside the tank connected to the 90° fitting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
On the 140, there is a tube attached to the back of the pump suction line fitting which goes horizontally and then takes a 90 deg turn down to the bottom of the tank. The bottom of this tube should be positioned just above the bung in the bottom of the tank which allows you to replace the little sock / strainer that slips over the bottom of the tube. Early 1800Es did not have the bung and filter. Later 1800Es should have it. I can't remember how the tube is attached to the back of the fitting; but, if it ever did come adrift you would be royally screwed!

The 1800 tank looks relatively flat across the bottom. The 140 tank is lowest in front and slopes up slightly to the back. When Volvo modified the 140 tank for use with D jet, the suction tube ended up farther back in the tank on the sloped portion. Net result is that the suction line can't access the last bits of fuel. I discovered this when my engine would hesitate of die on hard braking or fast corners as the fuel gauge approached the 1/8 position. You can never access the last bits of fuel on a 140 E unless you are driving up hill!. Never park facing downhill if the tank is approaching empty. Stupid!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
800 Posts
A standard tapered screw-flute E-Z-out will expand the soft metal making it tighter. The best type of extractor for soft metals is a tapered square, like THIS
There are other square-type extractors, but the set I have, made by Ace, back in the day. is the best. It's like the Irwin set pictured, and I used it when on the line at a Volvo dealer over 40 years ago. It's taken out "impossible" broken fittings then, and since on yachts and plumbing projects.
When using it, be sure to orient the flutes so they don't bite into the thinnest portion of the material, as that will cause the material to expand outward, making it tighter.
The fitting is almost certainly pipe thread, as evidenced by the absence of any seal landing surface for "O" rings or crush washers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Well, here ya' go. I was thinking it was all one fitting. Guess not. Capn, that's what I've been using. The easy out couldn't get a good grip until I ran a few drill bits through it, then the fitting came right out. 1/8" pipe thread. This turned out to be just like regular life: you struggle, thrash and ponder, repeat. Then once it happens, it's no big deal after all. ;)



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I had to make a tool to get the filter plug out. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be 3/8" but it was too big for a 3/8" ratchet. I ground down an old 1/"2 extension. There was no filter and I fished out what looks like an old pick up tube. I'm starting to see why the PO took off the D-jet. Lots of hillbilly engineering on this car.



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just a quick follow up: I took off all the tank undercoating layers and had the tank cleaned out and pressure tested. It's good to go. Now I just have to finish the rear body work and reinstall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
This all looks and sounds very familiar.

I had the tank out of my car to clean and rebuild it, and to get the drain plug out I had to file 2 flats on opposing sides and then used a large wrench. (The square was just a round when I got the car) I then also discovered that the filter was completely deteriorated and only the brass ends remained. Also, the pickup tube was loose. I had a parts car so removed the top of that tank to explore the tube arrangement, and then decided surgery on the good tank was needed and used the top of the donor tank as a hatch for the top of the tank that I was rebuilding as I had to cut a smaller portion of the top of the good tank off to get inside and repair the pickup tube.

The following 3 photos show the donor tank getting it's top cut off, and then a pic of the pickup and return tubes (these were OK and the model for the pickup tube I fabricated. And then the "good" tank getting the hatch templated onto the top so that I could then cut the opening. I then used Fuel Proof gasket sealant as a gasket for the hatch and short fat self tapping metal screws (Maybe #8 3/8" ??) into predrilled pilot holes approximately every 2 inches.

I then and used POR15 tank coating on the inside and POR15 on the entire outside

DONOR TANK WITH TOP CUT OFF
IMG_5974.jpg
***
INTERNALS OF PICK UP AND RETURN TUBE
IMG_5975.jpg
***
TANK TO BE RESTORED HAVING HATCH LAID OUT
IMG_5985.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That tube layout looks different than what I imagine the inside of my tank looks like. Where is the bottom plug that is removed to replace the pickup filter?

My pickup tube has what may be an end part of the last filter still on it. Can you tell from my photo if that is so or is it part of the hard line? Your's doesn't appear to have that.

I haven't coated in inside of mine yet but the POR15 might be a good choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Yes, the Donor tank didn't have the filter sock arrangement.

So may have been an aftermarket tank or just a alternate part number.

I don't seem to have taken any photos of the internals of the good tank once I opened up the top, but from recollection the return "bowl" that captures the returned fuel and helps baffel the fuel around the pickup tube is the same

The Donor tank had a small plug in a soldered in threaded socket for a drain, similar in size to the Return line fitting. It was completely seized and I was never able to get it out, That and the internal rusty condition of the tank made me choose the other one, with filter sock on pickup, as my keeper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That all makes sense. The small drain plug on mine was very tight but it did come out. It is steel, so I might replace it with brass just to be consistent with all the other hardware.

On the tank sealer coating, is there an issue with the inside tubes? I'd hate to clog up something in the name of longevity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
Yes, the Donor tank didn't have the filter sock arrangement.

So may have been an aftermarket tank or just a alternate part number.
The 1800E was the first Volvo to get the D Jet and that happened in 1970. The 1970 1800E tanks did not have the filter sock on the suction line and the associated access plug. D jet became an option on the 140 in 1971 (and 1972 for the 164). The 1971 140 tank had the filter sock and the access plug right from the start. The 1800E got the sock and the access plug in 1971 or later. So, if your donor tank came out of an early 1800E - no filter sock and no access plug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,571 Posts
That all makes sense. The small drain plug on mine was very tight but it did come out. It is steel, so I might replace it with brass just to be consistent with all the other hardware.

On the tank sealer coating, is there an issue with the inside tubes? I'd hate to clog up something in the name of longevity.
I went through an almost identical process to Scaramoucheii when I rehabbed my 142E tank about 10 + years ago, including finding a donor to provide patches to allow me to cut access holes in the roof of the tank. However I cut three round (about 8") holes to allow me to get at the interior with an abrasive blaster for an initial cleaning. When you do the final stage of the POR 15 sealer you need to be turning the tank to try and get a uniform coating over the interior as it sets up.

I was also paranoid about plugging up the suction and return line so after every few turns of the tank, I would pop the cap off the lines and give them a blast of compressed air to make sure they were clear (after venting the tank). You also need to pull out the filter sock access plug to clean the threads if you want to be able to open that plug in the future. You need to block off the access for the fuel measuring float to allow you to do a complete rotation of the tank in all directions; but, as set up occurs you need to get that off to clean up around the float mounting. I was lucky because I had a new fuel float and just sacrificed the old float assembly as a plug for the coating process.

Read the POR 15 instructions 3 or 4 times and plan out all the steps ahead of time and have everything available. Its a 3 step process; cleaner, metal prep and coating. You have flexibility on time and can stop the process in steps 1 and 2. You can do steps 1 and 2 days ahead of the final step as long as you seal the tank up after step 2 once it is dry from rinsing. Once you start step 3 you are committed and there is no stopping to think about things or find something you need to complete the process. I seem to recall that POR 15 sets up faster if the humidity is high, so you might want to pick a dryer day to do this. If its too humid it may actually bubble al little. Clean up is important as POR 15 is rock hard once its set. Any clean up at that point would require a chisel / grinder.

That said, its been 10 years and I have not had any problems with the tank.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top