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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With all this talk of ECU upgrades, I've been considering making the plunge sometime. I don't have the budget right now to do a chip and exhaust, having recently bought my XC. I noticed IPD is including an upgraded Filter in their power kit. I figure I can start with something like that as it is a pretty cheap component comparitively. <P>Will this offer me any noticeable gains? What are the downsides? Have any of you guys done this mod? Preferably.....just this mod?<P>
 

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I am actually looking for info on this as well. What mods can be done and won't damage anything. I keep hearing about a chip, exaust, but have no ideas which ones.<P>02 XC ASH
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, if I could afford it right now, I'm leaning towards IPD for the new setup if my car were a candidate, which it sounds like it might be.<P>From the sounds of it, they might be the best for my purposes. I am worried about heat though, on the smaller LPT turbo.<P>For now, I'll wait and watch what you guys do, unless of couse the filter mod looks like it migbt be worth doing. <P>Just can't stop tinkering. Too bad I'm broke right now.
 

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Volvo has always equipped their cars with well designed air intake systems, which we have found very difficult to improve upon. We’d love to offer a cold air induction system, but we were unable to show any significant performance improvement and the noise generated during testing was substantial. We realize that some people want the noise, but that is not our market. A K&N can make significant gains in some drivetrains. Normally aspirated cars like the Mustang GT can gain 5+ HP from a basic drop in style K&N, but on most Volvo applications the gains are probably closer to 1-2 HP. In the case of turbocharged models, the factory over specs the intake system as restrictions in air flow to the turbo can create vacuum at levels great enough to begin to suck oil past the compressor shaft seal and cause the car to smoke, foul plugs etc. A couple of years ago European Car Magazine tested 10 to 15 of the most recognizable names in the cold air intake business. At the risk of potentially losing some of their largest advertisers, they published the results. I think the best system only showed a 3 HP gain and most performed worse than the stock air intake systems, but they sure sounded cool! <BR>This is also the reason we don’t sell big bore throttle bodies. The stock throttle body flows more than enough air for the displacement of the motor. Also, when “bored out” the venturi designed into the stock throttle body is removed, which significantly slows down air flow at low throttle angles reducing throttle response. <BR>Bottom line, if they worked we’d sell them. <P> We do sell K&N’s for serviceability, but we don’t make any HP claims for them, even though K&N claims 1-2 HP. <BR><P>
 

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Thanks Scott! (And good to see you here).<P>Evolvo - the good news here, if you missed it, is that you've got pretty much top breathing performance right out of the box... for free! (relatively). You'd probably notice a mild tail-wind before you noticed an airbox improvement. <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif"><P>
 

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Hey Scott,<BR>Good to hear from you!<P>I've got a bit of a qualm with what your staying about the throttle body on turbo volvo engines. I understand what you're saying about the venturi, and as i've discussed with others, it is necessary at idle, but on tubo engines, the pressure will be at the throttle plate caused by the forced induction of the turbo. After installing my throttle body, i can guarantee that my T-5R is faster, quicker and just plain more responsive. <BR>If there's something that i'm missing, it would be great to know.<BR>Thanks,<BR>David Embree<BR>850 T-5R Sedan<BR>[email protected]<p>[This message has been edited by fhdt5r (edited 01-30-2002).]
 

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What we experienced when testing throttle bodies is that you will perceive a difference. The car feels like it breathes easier and takes less throttle pedal to do what it did before. This is because you get a larger throttle opening at a lower throttle angle. It's not making any more torque than before. You could get similar results with a smaller throttle pulley on pre ME7 cars for a whole lot less money, however the throttle pedal would begin to feel pretty heavy and be difficult to control.<BR> Several of us that were involved in the testing "felt" that there was more power on tap, but the reality of it was that it could not be measured in 0-60 and quarter mile testing. The perception that the car makes more power with less throttle input is incorrect. If you consider RPM and load, airflow will pretty much be the same with a stock or modified TB. The stock TB will flow more air up to around 30 degrees of throttle plate angle, above 30 degrees they pretty much flow the same amount). It does take more throttle pedal input with the stock TB. In simple terms, a larger TB increases the flow area and the rate at which the flow area increases, but if the flow area is not a restriction, there is no gain. <BR>As with the K&N’s mentioned above, there are some cars ( usually normally aspirated and not Volvos) where a larger throttle body can make a worthwhile improvement. We’d be interested to hear if anyone has measured a performance improvement with a TB or other air intake mods. <BR><P>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Okay, so on a turbocharged car, it's not really worth it. Even on like a K&N drop in element?<P>I guess I'll just leave well enough alone until I can talk the missus into letting me go for the ECU/exhaust.<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evolvo:<BR><B><BR>I guess I'll just leave well enough alone until I can talk the missus into letting me go for the ECU/exhaust.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There you go. If you don't need that money you just saved, I've found some interesting uses for cash lately...<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:<BR><B> There you go. If you don't need that money you just saved, I've found some interesting uses for cash lately...<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But wait! Haven't many people experienced noticeable performance benefits (such as quicker throttle response, and less lag) with the K&N? I've been thinking about dropping one in because I've read such posts. But now i'm not sure. I don't want to buy it just to fool myselft <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/smile.gif">.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duett:<BR><B> But wait! Haven't many people experienced noticeable performance benefits (such as quicker throttle response, and less lag) with the K&N? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I had put one on my car before the ECU upgrade and I was surprised not to have noticed a difference. I had also a K&N on my '98 V70R and I "thought" I noticed a difference, top end. I also used to have a '93 Eagle Talon and I had a K&N without the air filter case and on that car I had noticed a HUGE difference, top end again.<P>Yannis<BR><P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Hart:<BR><B>Normally aspirated cars like the Mustang GT can gain 5+ HP from a basic drop in style K&N, </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No. There is little or no gain from a K&N dropped into the factory airbox. I know this from firsthand experience. A cold-air intake (which places the K&N uncovered in the fenderwell), however, does add 5-8hp and some extra torque at the top end. My 1/4 mile times were exactly the same with the stock paper filter and with the drop-in K&N. Then I added Flowmasters and a CAI, and shaved .5 seconds off my ET.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Hart:<BR><B>We’d be interested to hear if anyone has measured a performance improvement with a TB or other air intake mods.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know you're referring to Volvos here, but I figured I'd throw in my .02 anyway <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/tongue.gif"> My stock TB was a 65mm. Recently replaced it with a 70mm. A slight gain in the upper revs, but the important thing is that it makes the enigine rev up faster. This will probably make a difference at the track. I'll post my latest 1/4 times (with the TB) this spring when the tracks open up again.<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GrecianVolvo:<BR><B> <BR>I had put one on my car before the ECU upgrade and I was surprised not to have noticed a difference. I had also a K&N on my '98 V70R and I "thought" I noticed a difference, top end. I also used to have a '93 Eagle Talon and I had a K&N without the air filter case and on that car I had noticed a HUGE difference, top end again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What was the gain with the ECU upgrade? You have any track times?<P><BR>Also, you're right, the main restriction is usually in the airbox. The K&N filters use special oil to trap dirt, and they are designed to flow just as well as a car would without any filter. But if the airbox is restrictive (as it is on most cars I've seen) replacing just the filter won't do much of anything.<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anony00gt:<BR><B> What was the gain with the ECU upgrade? You have any track times?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>No, no track times....It's only a week, or so, old...The gains? Pretty amazing, if you take into account that I do not have the sport exhaust. I cannot tell you officially how fast but the car has an unbelievable amount of torque, 0-60 must be either very close to 6 secs. or perhaps a tad below. I have only let two other people, beside myself, drive it; my tech (who works for us and has been in the business for a looooong time) and one of the Stillmans. They both came out of the car with an expression of amazement and told me that it was worth every penny. I was told that this car was the only one they have driven that reminds them of a...Buick Grand National. I have never driven one of those but I have heard (and read) that they were pretty wicked! I am extremely pleased; I have not really raced anyone...well, an Integra with all of the necessary paraphernalia attached (clear lenses, huge FART-muffler, lowered, etc.) tried to "stick" it to me at a stoplight but once I shifted to 2nd gear he was literally smoked. Same thing happened to a Honda Civic Si (what's with those Japanese cars wanting to race??? <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/biggrin.gif"> ) who tried for two stoplights in a row (I admired him for that!)...Anyway, the improvement is plainly A-M-A Z-I-N-G! I just cannot imagine what would happen if I was crazy enough to pour in another $4k or $5k in reworking the engine...<P><BR>Yannis<P><P>
 

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I found exactly the same as Scott has said when dyno testing my 850 T5 and have made these points before:<BR>(1) Cone filter gave a 3hp DECREASE over stock but better response.<BR>(2) panel filter gave SAME hp as stock but slightly better response<BR>(3) Bored TB felt much faster than stock but gave NO hp increase after TME upgrade.<BR>Because a cone filter gives good power on one car doesn't mean it will do the same on another, if that cars limiting factor is the intake it might well give a power increase but on the Volvo it isn't<P>
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GrecianVolvo:<BR><B> <BR>No, no track times....It's only a week, or so, old...The gains? Pretty amazing, if you take into account that I do not have the sport exhaust. I cannot tell you officially how fast but the car has an unbelievable amount of torque, 0-60 must be either very close to 6 secs. or perhaps a tad below. I have only let two other people, beside myself, drive it; my tech (who works for us and has been in the business for a looooong time) and one of the Stillmans. They both came out of the car with an expression of amazement and told me that it was worth every penny. I was told that this car was the only one they have driven that reminds them of a...Buick Grand National. I have never driven one of those but I have heard (and read) that they were pretty wicked! I am extremely pleased; I have not really raced anyone...well, an Integra with all of the necessary paraphernalia attached (clear lenses, huge FART-muffler, lowered, etc.) tried to "stick" it to me at a stoplight but once I shifted to 2nd gear he was literally smoked. Same thing happened to a Honda Civic Si (what's with those Japanese cars wanting to race??? <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/biggrin.gif"> ) who tried for two stoplights in a row (I admired him for that!)...Anyway, the improvement is plainly A-M-A Z-I-N-G! I just cannot imagine what would happen if I was crazy enough to pour in another $4k or $5k in reworking the engine...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I believe the gain was very significant. Wonder what it would be like on the S80 <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/wink.gif"> I have heard that these new turbos from VW can also be changed with simply an ECU chip. I hear VW's 1.8T engine family has a HUGE potential. But I guess you guys here are more familiar with VWs (VW Vortex) than I ever could be.<P>Just out of curiosity, what kind of rubber do you use to put that power down with FWD?<P>Now the T5s are really sweet cars (I especially like the wagon myself <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/wink.gif"> ) but likening them to a Buick Grand National is...well...a stretch at best. The GN (more specifically the McLaren-tuned GNX, only made in 1987 and I believe less than 1000 total produced) is a really amazing car. It's a 3.8L V6 with a turbo the size of Rolls-Royce jet engine. The stock boost on the GNX was 14lbs <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/eek.gif"> . I've seen these things run 11s at the track and (not the same one) push 1200hp at the wheels. Absolutely amazing.<P><BR>About the Japanese cars trying to race, well, I definitely feel your pain. As you might guess, my car attracts more than the average amount of r1ce, especially at stoplights. They're economy cars, and should be treated as such. The only exception is when one 99-00 Civic Si pulled up next to me, and he claimed to be running a turbo with 12lbs of boost. Because he had NOTHING on the car (spoilers, stickers, clear taillights, etc, it was just lowered) I believed him. So we ran it, and by the top of 2nd gear he was only about a car and a half behind me. Pretty amazing for a Civic if you ask me. He had to be running mid- to low-14s with that car. But the domestic comes out on top again. DoMeStIc PoWaH. StReEt RaCaH Fo LiFe <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/cool.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.swedespeed.com/ubb/tongue.gif"><P>
 
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