[MnOpRacInG]

Figured I would chime in on this as I just went threw this whole 4c mod dance. It's hard to describe suspension setups in terms of feel as everyone has different ways they like their car to ride, but one thing that seems to be universally loathed is the "Crashyness" of the 4c. So bare with me here.

I just got my 06 Vr back in August. All of the struts are Monroe replacements with around 15,000 miles on them, they all work perfectly with no codes or other issues. All of the spring seats, control arms and other associated bushings are in good condition or new. The tires are brand new "Vouge" brand (I have no idea why the PO put these specific tiers on) 235/45/17 running 35psi cold. I have IPD sways front and rear. I live in Boston where the roads are **** so I do most of my driving in Comfort mode. I would say I drive spiritedly.

OK. When I first got the R it came as described above and had TME springs front and rear that were essentially new. The car was a bit low for my taste but the ride was quite good if a little on the firm side. It didn't ride so much like a car on lowering springs, but you could tell that the suspension had limited travel going over large heaves and potholes. Tho there was no crash to the suspension what so ever and it handled very well. I would describe it as composed but on the firm side with no crash and no side hop.

I wanted a softer ride so I put the original springs back in and wow did it ride terribly. While the ride was softer the car felt really unsettled over large road imperfections and it crashed horribly over expansion gaps and large pot holes. With the TME springs the ride was firm but composed and consistent, now it was soft sometimes then super hard over some bits, then back to soft and disconnected. Comfort was too nerve racking to use (as you didn't know what would cause a sudden full hard suspension decision followed by a crash), Sport was better but it was still a bit crashy and almost firmer than Sport using the TME springs but in a really bad way. Oh and I started to get side hop on some onramps and it scared the **** out of me the fist time it happened.

So desperate I did the 4c mod moving the front accelerometers located on the struts to the body. This both solved the crash problem by about 90 -95% and made the car super soft and wallow quite badly in comfort. So now Comfort was very soft, I would even say the car wallowed too much. The body roll was noticeably increased as well. I found myself using Sport more and more, but this was less than ideal as it both was a bit too stiff while still having too much body roll. I will say that if I had a choice between stock springs with no mod and stock springs with the mod I would choose the mod as it made the car overall way less harsh to drive even if it made everything a bit too soft in all the wrong ways. It did get rid of the side hop tho.

In a bit of experimenting I got a pair of Lesiofors "HD" front springs for a FWD/AWD P2 car off of FCP. The idea was I would get the added height I wanted (I'm not a fan of how low the stock springs were), increase the suspension travel and have a stiffer spring rate which, going on how well the stiffer TME springs compared to the softer stock springs, should give me the best of both worlds. So I put in the Lesiofors front springs and left the stock rear springs in place, put the accelerometers back in the stock position and have been driving like that for the past few months. I LOVE it. There is no crash to the suspension and I have better handling than the stock springs with a much much better ride quality to boot. There is no side hop at all.

Comfort now is very composed and predictable, there is no float and no side hop. Just the initial compression and rebound without the extra up and down movement that the stock springs and 4c mod seemed to do. Uneven surfaces are ironed out, pot holes are absorbed quite well, expansion joins are a non event, and the body is controlled in line with what you would expect a regular sedan might do.

Sport is also composed and predictable, firmer than Comfort but that's to be expected. Still rides well over broken surfaces just firmer with less body roll. Makes corners super fun.

Advanced is very good for spirited driving, especially on ramps. It is stiff, but I wouldn't consider it crashy. Odd thing is Advanced rode better with the TME springs over every other configuration I tried.

TME on the bottom, Stock in the middle, Lesiofors on the top. For anyone interested the part number is 9465472 and the link to the FCP page is https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-coil-spring-v70-4095831

The look is not for everyone. It raises the car about an inch, but my stock springs were way low to begin with so take that for what its worth. I love the extra ground clearance and I quite like the way it looks raised up.

Overall I really like these springs and I think this is how I'm going to leave it. I will get better tires with probably a softer and taller sidewall to give myself just that extra bit of comfort, but I'm really happy with it in its current state.

 

[broinkrist]

Thanks for the input! I do wonder though, what springs are actually on my car.

It sits quite low and the front optional lip scrapes on just about everything steep but I was always under the impression it is the stock setup, but since no one else on this forum has a T5 M66 with 4c, I never was able to compare.

Anyone care to take a guess? I purchased it with 19k miles on it (now at 130k) from a somewhat known forum member who made no mention of mods.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Figured I would chime in on this as I just went threw this whole 4c mod dance. It's hard to describe suspension setups in terms of feel as everyone has different ways they like their car to ride, but one thing that seems to be universally loathed is the "Crashyness" of the 4c. So bare with me here.

I just got my 06 Vr back in August. All of the struts are Monroe replacements with around 15,000 miles on them, they all work perfectly with no codes or other issues. All of the spring seats, control arms and other associated bushings are in good condition or new. The tires are brand new "Vouge" brand (I have no idea why the PO put these specific tiers on) 235/45/17 running 35psi cold. I have IPD sways front and rear. I live in Boston where the roads are **** so I do most of my driving in Comfort mode. I would say I drive spiritedly.

OK. When I first got the R it came as described above and had TME springs front and rear that were essentially new. The car was a bit low for my taste but the ride was quite good if a little on the firm side. It didn't ride so much like a car on lowering springs, but you could tell that the suspension had limited travel going over large heaves and potholes. Tho there was no crash to the suspension what so ever and it handled very well. I would describe it as composed but on the firm side with no crash and no side hop.

I wanted a softer ride so I put the original springs back in and wow did it ride terribly. While the ride was softer the car felt really unsettled over large road imperfections and it crashed horribly over expansion gaps and large pot holes. With the TME springs the ride was firm but composed and consistent, now it was soft sometimes then super hard over some bits, then back to soft and disconnected. Comfort was too nerve racking to use (as you didn't know what would cause a sudden full hard suspension decision followed by a crash), Sport was better but it was still a bit crashy and almost firmer than Sport using the TME springs but in a really bad way. Oh and I started to get side hop on some onramps and it scared the **** out of me the fist time it happened.

So desperate I did the 4c mod moving the front accelerometers located on the struts to the body. This both solved the crash problem by about 90 -95% and made the car super soft and wallow quite badly in comfort. So now Comfort was very soft, I would even say the car wallowed too much. The body roll was noticeably increased as well. I found myself using Sport more and more, but this was less than ideal as it both was a bit too stiff while still having too much body roll. I will say that if I had a choice between stock springs with no mod and stock springs with the mod I would choose the mod as it made the car overall way less harsh to drive even if it made everything a bit too soft in all the wrong ways. It did get rid of the side hop tho.

In a bit of experimenting I got a pair of Lesiofors "HD" front springs for a FWD/AWD P2 car off of FCP. The idea was I would get the added height I wanted (I'm not a fan of how low the stock springs were), increase the suspension travel and have a stiffer spring rate which, going on how well the stiffer TME springs compared to the softer stock springs, should give me the best of both worlds. So I put in the Lesiofors front springs and left the stock rear springs in place, put the accelerometers back in the stock position and have been driving like that for the past few months. I LOVE it. There is no crash to the suspension and I have better handling than the stock springs with a much much better ride quality to boot. There is no side hop at all.

Comfort now is very composed and predictable, there is no float and no side hop. Just the initial compression and rebound without the extra up and down movement that the stock springs and 4c mod seemed to do. Uneven surfaces are ironed out, pot holes are absorbed quite well, expansion joins are a non event, and the body is controlled in line with what you would expect a regular sedan might do.

Sport is also composed and predictable, firmer than Comfort but that's to be expected. Still rides well over broken surfaces just firmer with less body roll. Makes corners super fun.

Advanced is very good for spirited driving, especially on ramps. It is stiff, but I wouldn't consider it crashy. Odd thing is Advanced rode better with the TME springs over every other configuration I tried.

TME on the bottom, Stock in the middle, Lesiofors on the top. For anyone interested the part number is 9465472 and the link to the FCP page is https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-coil-spring-v70-4095831

The look is not for everyone. It raises the car about an inch, but my stock springs were way low to begin with so take that for what its worth. I love the extra ground clearance and I quite like the way it looks raised up.

Overall I really like these springs and I think this is how I'm going to leave it. I will get better tires with probably a softer and taller sidewall to give myself just that extra bit of comfort, but I'm really happy with it in its current state.

Wow! I would have seriously considered this option before going to TME springs, had I known about it! My S60R is used exclusively for winter driving & towing, so I really want more suspension travel. I ended up going with TME since they were the stiffest (for towing), but also give the highest ride height, of the known "lowering" springs.

In retrospect, I suspect I might be better off with the TMEs though, especially since I need stiffer-than-stock springs in the rear. I'm running Jaguar XJ Bilstein B6s in the rear, which are about an inch shorter than the rear 4C shocks. This means that I have a bit more spring pre-load than normal. Using a higher-than-stock spring in the rear may have ultimately resulted in excessive pre-load and a car with reverse-rake.

 

[MnOpRacInG]

If I could have gotten the spring rate of the TME springs at the height of the stock rear springs and front HD springs I would have been sold. But this is honestly the next best thing.

I did notice that the stock springs and HD springs have the same coil diameter while the TME springs are noticeably thicker.

My stock springs have around 100,000 miles on them and you could tell they were compressed more than they should have been. I think the softness and age makes them weak over time furthering the crashyness of the 4c. But the stiffer the spring the better the system works, so I wonder why the stock springs are so soft. Almost like it was a last minute change after all the 4c programming was finished.

I would assume that the front 4c springs would be the same for the t5 and R. But the rears would defiantly have to be different between the awd and fwd variants.

The t5's equipped with the 4c, are the shocks and programming identical to the R cars?

 

[J5T]

Thanks for the input! I do wonder though, what springs are actually on my car.

It sits quite low and the front optional lip scrapes on just about everything steep but I was always under the impression it is the stock setup, but since no one else on this forum has a T5 M66 with 4c, I never was able to compare.

Anyone care to take a guess? I purchased it with 19k miles on it (now at 130k) from a somewhat known forum member who made no mention of mods.

I have 2005 V70 T5M66 with 4C. It only has two modes not 3. Is your S60 two mode or 3? I think that it sits a little higher than my 2002 V70 T5

 

[broinkrist]

If I could have gotten the spring rate of the TME springs at the height of the stock rear springs and front HD springs I would have been sold. But this is honestly the next best thing.

I did notice that the stock springs and HD springs have the same coil diameter while the TME springs are noticeably thicker.

My stock springs have around 100,000 miles on them and you could tell they were compressed more than they should have been. I think the softness and age makes them weak over time furthering the crashyness of the 4c. But the stiffer the spring the better the system works, so I wonder why the stock springs are so soft. Almost like it was a last minute change after all the 4c programming was finished.

I would assume that the front 4c springs would be the same for the t5 and R. But the rears would defiantly have to be different between the awd and fwd variants.

The t5's equipped with the 4c, are the shocks and programming identical to the R cars?

2 modes. comfort and sport. No idea about the programming values but I would think they correspond closer to what comfort and sport are in the R vs comfort and advanced. I wonder if these values could be changed by someone like Contrast or Hilton with tuning to make the sport setting stiffer (since it's really not stiff at all) and comfort softer (to simulate what the ride would be like with the accelerometers on the body)

 

[broinkrist]

I have 2005 V70 T5M66 with 4C. It only has two modes not 3. Is your S60 two mode or 3? I think that it sits a little higher than my 2002 V70 T5

Nice! your car is probably even more rare than mine. How's your ride comfort overall and what have you replaced over time?

My car crashes quite a lot on larger pot holes and bumps that are literally everywhere in NYC/Brooklyn.

I've taken everything apart front and rear and ended up replacing:

Both rear shock mounts
Both front shock mounts
Both front spring seats (old ones were completely pristine)
New front 4C shocks at 80k miles (now 130k)

 

[Hoenig]

Anyone have any more opinions about this?

I did this in August with some extended bolts from the hardware store. A bit squishier and more body roll but a lot of the crashing is reduced, it's even saved me a few times on the highway when it would USUALLY crash, but did not due to this mod (I presume).

I've got front/rear ipd sways and front/rear engine/chassis braces so it's still on the stiffer side. SUM still calibrates ok, no error codes yet.

 

[-ForceFed-]

Any reason you can't flip the bracket around, drill this hole out slightly larger, and mount via the liner stud?

 

[Caboose]

Probably not, but would you then be able to put it back in it's stock location if you changed your mind? I advocate the idea of drilling a second hole in the bracket. That way you can put it back to stock easily.

 

[-ForceFed-]

Never mind. No point. I bored out the square hole, bent over the tab, and just mounted it to the same bracket holding the brake line with a longer bolt.

 

[akainz]

I've got a traction control light that activates on left turns at 50+ MPH when the steering wheel wheel angle exceeds approximately 15 degrees. Could I have worn accelerometers? No CEL's, just the traction control kicking on at this point.

 

[shaun]

Love the car! Interesting solution, I'm glad it worked out.

To add a couple subjective data points to the thread:

I bought a 2007 V70R with 95k on it with <10k from new OEM front 4C struts and rear OEM struts that were something like 40k old. the car rode on IPD springs which were too low since IPD decided one rate for S and V was a good idea the rear was way too far into the travel and the bump stops saw way to much action and the negative rear camber was stupid. The PO had added 20mm spacers to the rear as well. A ton or rear camber and a wider track = adding lots of under-steer and rear tire wear. The crashing and wallowing and all the 4C junk was intolerable. The handling was a mess.

I moved the sensors and it helped quite a bit. The crashing was pretty much gone but I hated the feel of the latency saddled system at work guessing wrong all the time. I certainly understand what active suspension is after and what GM and others has achieved with it, on smooth roads the crude attempts by 4C at anti dive under braking and the stiffening of the outside dampers while cornering gives a glimpse.

I took the car on a car camping trip and 10-20 miles or whatever it was of washboard dirt road blew up the front struts. 4C just could not figure out how to not jack against the bumps not matter what mode or what speed or no matter how much I zig zagged. It was an awful experience.

After that I followed in Dougies footsteps with the bilstiens on the stock springs but I used adjustable rear sleeves so I could make sure the rear could be adjusted where I wanted it.

While I was at it I rebuilt the suspension, put the 20 mm spacers up front, traded one set of 18" for 17" wheels to get more sidewall on the summer tires that are on the car 90% of the year, added camber adjustment bolts to the front struts and played with the alignment for awhile. With the car sitting I now have a touch more negative camber in the front that in the rear, the car handles pretty darned well for a SUV, and the ride is better than the 4C I Inherited across the board.

As a side note- by adding the spacers to the front and adjusting the steering stops to the minimum before rubbing I knocked 5'-10' off of the turning circle. It is now merely a bad turning radius and made normal driving and parking lot maneuvering allot less stupid. I dont mind the stock springs at all- IPD or another brand that can actually deliver sways are in the future.

Ditching 4C and improving the turning circle has made my ownership experience way allot more satisfying. YRMV.

Figured I would chime in on this as I just went threw this whole 4c mod dance. It's hard to describe suspension setups in terms of feel as everyone has different ways they like their car to ride, but one thing that seems to be universally loathed is the "Crashyness" of the 4c. So bare with me here.

I just got my 06 Vr back in August. All of the struts are Monroe replacements with around 15,000 miles on them, they all work perfectly with no codes or other issues. All of the spring seats, control arms and other associated bushings are in good condition or new. The tires are brand new "Vouge" brand (I have no idea why the PO put these specific tiers on) 235/45/17 running 35psi cold. I have IPD sways front and rear. I live in Boston where the roads are **** so I do most of my driving in Comfort mode. I would say I drive spiritedly.

OK. When I first got the R it came as described above and had TME springs front and rear that were essentially new. The car was a bit low for my taste but the ride was quite good if a little on the firm side. It didn't ride so much like a car on lowering springs, but you could tell that the suspension had limited travel going over large heaves and potholes. Tho there was no crash to the suspension what so ever and it handled very well. I would describe it as composed but on the firm side with no crash and no side hop.

I wanted a softer ride so I put the original springs back in and wow did it ride terribly. While the ride was softer the car felt really unsettled over large road imperfections and it crashed horribly over expansion gaps and large pot holes. With the TME springs the ride was firm but composed and consistent, now it was soft sometimes then super hard over some bits, then back to soft and disconnected. Comfort was too nerve racking to use (as you didn't know what would cause a sudden full hard suspension decision followed by a crash), Sport was better but it was still a bit crashy and almost firmer than Sport using the TME springs but in a really bad way. Oh and I started to get side hop on some onramps and it scared the **** out of me the fist time it happened.

So desperate I did the 4c mod moving the front accelerometers located on the struts to the body. This both solved the crash problem by about 90 -95% and made the car super soft and wallow quite badly in comfort. So now Comfort was very soft, I would even say the car wallowed too much. The body roll was noticeably increased as well. I found myself using Sport more and more, but this was less than ideal as it both was a bit too stiff while still having too much body roll. I will say that if I had a choice between stock springs with no mod and stock springs with the mod I would choose the mod as it made the car overall way less harsh to drive even if it made everything a bit too soft in all the wrong ways. It did get rid of the side hop tho.

In a bit of experimenting I got a pair of Lesiofors "HD" front springs for a FWD/AWD P2 car off of FCP. The idea was I would get the added height I wanted (I'm not a fan of how low the stock springs were), increase the suspension travel and have a stiffer spring rate which, going on how well the stiffer TME springs compared to the softer stock springs, should give me the best of both worlds. So I put in the Lesiofors front springs and left the stock rear springs in place, put the accelerometers back in the stock position and have been driving like that for the past few months. I LOVE it. There is no crash to the suspension and I have better handling than the stock springs with a much much better ride quality to boot. There is no side hop at all.

Comfort now is very composed and predictable, there is no float and no side hop. Just the initial compression and rebound without the extra up and down movement that the stock springs and 4c mod seemed to do. Uneven surfaces are ironed out, pot holes are absorbed quite well, expansion joins are a non event, and the body is controlled in line with what you would expect a regular sedan might do.

Sport is also composed and predictable, firmer than Comfort but that's to be expected. Still rides well over broken surfaces just firmer with less body roll. Makes corners super fun.

Advanced is very good for spirited driving, especially on ramps. It is stiff, but I wouldn't consider it crashy. Odd thing is Advanced rode better with the TME springs over every other configuration I tried.

TME on the bottom, Stock in the middle, Lesiofors on the top. For anyone interested the part number is 9465472 and the link to the FCP page is https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-coil-spring-v70-4095831

The look is not for everyone. It raises the car about an inch, but my stock springs were way low to begin with so take that for what its worth. I love the extra ground clearance and I quite like the way it looks raised up.

Overall I really like these springs and I think this is how I'm going to leave it. I will get better tires with probably a softer and taller sidewall to give myself just that extra bit of comfort, but I'm really happy with it in its current state.

 

[-ForceFed-]

Anyone by chance know the size of this hex joiner that works for the level sensor rods? Id like to modify mine, just don't feel like crawling under a wet car at the moment unless I have to.

Thanks!

 

[soupandspoons]

Anyone by chance know the size of this hex joiner that works for the level sensor rods? Id like to modify mine, just don't feel like crawling under a wet car at the moment unless I have to.

Thanks!

Answers in this thread. Note that in that thread they bought a 10-32 internal threaded joiner that they re-threaded to 12-24 to work with the sensor rod.

 

[-ForceFed-]

Sweet! Thanks for the link.

 

[billr99]

For what it is worth, I got new position sensor rods off eBay for way cheaper than buying and modding OEM rods. Got these ones https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/xenon-HI...1:g:JEsAAOSwZQRYV8dp:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true which have a threaded rod under the black plastic covering. Ended up with two being cheaper in Canadian monopoly money than one OEM rod. Cut the threaded bit down so that the overall length including sockets was about 4in long, packed the sockets with syn-grease and they bolted right in no problem. Was able to get the voltage reading for each sensor to 2.5v more or less and then calibrated the 4C. Interestingly now that I was able to dial the sensors to 2.5v nearly spot on, the ride seemed better than I have ever been able to get it with the stocks rods and the sensors closer to 3v. Again, for what its worth.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[-ForceFed-]

That’s awesome! Thanks for looking out. I just ordered a pair

 

[alexk243]

Figured I would chime in on this as I just went threw this whole 4c mod dance. It's hard to describe suspension setups in terms of feel as everyone has different ways they like their car to ride, but one thing that seems to be universally loathed is the "Crashyness" of the 4c. So bare with me here.

I just got my 06 Vr back in August. All of the struts are Monroe replacements with around 15,000 miles on them, they all work perfectly with no codes or other issues. All of the spring seats, control arms and other associated bushings are in good condition or new. The tires are brand new "Vouge" brand (I have no idea why the PO put these specific tiers on) 235/45/17 running 35psi cold. I have IPD sways front and rear. I live in Boston where the roads are **** so I do most of my driving in Comfort mode. I would say I drive spiritedly.

OK. When I first got the R it came as described above and had TME springs front and rear that were essentially new. The car was a bit low for my taste but the ride was quite good if a little on the firm side. It didn't ride so much like a car on lowering springs, but you could tell that the suspension had limited travel going over large heaves and potholes. Tho there was no crash to the suspension what so ever and it handled very well. I would describe it as composed but on the firm side with no crash and no side hop.

I wanted a softer ride so I put the original springs back in and wow did it ride terribly. While the ride was softer the car felt really unsettled over large road imperfections and it crashed horribly over expansion gaps and large pot holes. With the TME springs the ride was firm but composed and consistent, now it was soft sometimes then super hard over some bits, then back to soft and disconnected. Comfort was too nerve racking to use (as you didn't know what would cause a sudden full hard suspension decision followed by a crash), Sport was better but it was still a bit crashy and almost firmer than Sport using the TME springs but in a really bad way. Oh and I started to get side hop on some onramps and it scared the **** out of me the fist time it happened.

So desperate I did the 4c mod moving the front accelerometers located on the struts to the body. This both solved the crash problem by about 90 -95% and made the car super soft and wallow quite badly in comfort. So now Comfort was very soft, I would even say the car wallowed too much. The body roll was noticeably increased as well. I found myself using Sport more and more, but this was less than ideal as it both was a bit too stiff while still having too much body roll. I will say that if I had a choice between stock springs with no mod and stock springs with the mod I would choose the mod as it made the car overall way less harsh to drive even if it made everything a bit too soft in all the wrong ways. It did get rid of the side hop tho.

In a bit of experimenting I got a pair of Lesiofors "HD" front springs for a FWD/AWD P2 car off of FCP. The idea was I would get the added height I wanted (I'm not a fan of how low the stock springs were), increase the suspension travel and have a stiffer spring rate which, going on how well the stiffer TME springs compared to the softer stock springs, should give me the best of both worlds. So I put in the Lesiofors front springs and left the stock rear springs in place, put the accelerometers back in the stock position and have been driving like that for the past few months. I LOVE it. There is no crash to the suspension and I have better handling than the stock springs with a much much better ride quality to boot. There is no side hop at all.

Comfort now is very composed and predictable, there is no float and no side hop. Just the initial compression and rebound without the extra up and down movement that the stock springs and 4c mod seemed to do. Uneven surfaces are ironed out, pot holes are absorbed quite well, expansion joins are a non event, and the body is controlled in line with what you would expect a regular sedan might do.

TME on the bottom, Stock in the middle, Lesiofors on the top. For anyone interested the part number is 9465472 and the link to the FCP page is https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-coil-spring-v70-4095831

The look is not for everyone. It raises the car about an inch, but my stock springs were way low to begin with so take that for what its worth. I love the extra ground clearance and I quite like the way it looks raised up.

Would this coil spring setup work for a S60R? Or only for the V70?

EDITED: Figured it out, you can and I did it to a S60R and it works great. Seems to fix the crashing issue so far. In case anyone else is considering it I did a write up on the HD V70 Coils job here

 

[HunterBD]

Figured I would chime in on this as I just went threw this whole 4c mod dance.

Overall I really like these springs and I think this is how I'm going to leave it. I will get better tires with probably a softer and taller sidewall to give myself just that extra bit of comfort, but I'm really happy with it in its current state.

How is it now? I just purchased the front and rear Monroe 4c's and feel if I'm going to replace the shocks and spring seats than new springs are in order on my 05 VR GT.

My plan is on replacing all the bushings rear to front. With more power, let's say 400hp, will the suspension be better off with a stiffer spring?

I like spirited mountain rides with tight corners. I also like long open highways where I can see how far the needle can go. So far she sticks to the road in the stock form.