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Re: Four C info here (vlvman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>vlvman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><A HREF="http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/2004r/R5-Four-C.pdf" TARGET="_blank">http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/te...C.pdf</A><br>Enjoy.<br>WHC wheel hop control. HaHa</TD></TR></TABLE><p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=45546" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=45546</A><p>Look for R Series Tech Manual (partial) about 1/3 way down.<p>Also has more sections, not just the 4C one (note stock boost is 16 psi)<p>Good reminder for those who don't know about it!<p>
 

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Re: Four C info here (vlvman)

Frankly, I'm surprised these systems are as reliable as they are, given all of the components and techno wizardry. That was entertaining to read.<p>~ Trygve<br>
 

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Re: Four C info here (RainyS60R)

... and then you go drive any other modern car in it's segment and realize just how 'plain Jane' our cars really are <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (crimnlmnded)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>crimnlmnded</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4C =$$$$$$$hitty.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>4C does suck and I, like many, feel somewhat robbed. Also, it is close to impossible to get rid of <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> Who will be the first brave soul to do it? <p>The one good thing about 4C is that we are the only ones that know it doesn't work. To everyone else in the world it looks cool as $$$$$(hait) <p>We should create a number of "challenges", with each positive solution leading to a Volvo God award<p>a) make a working high beam without baking $1000 headlamps <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>b) getting rid of 4C and reuse the buttons to do something cool<br>c) make the OCP phone work <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"><br>d) prevent destruction of collar gear without 50% car disassembly (first award given to Adykes, but still looking for haldex hacks or other solutions)<br>e) FMIC (award given to Phuz)<br>f) Rain squeeeeeeel (Award never given to JRL, but I feel he deserves one) <p>Kinda like the Nobel prize of Volvo geekery ...of course Helmut will be heading the committee, and he's only allowed to make decisions when massively drunk
 

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Re: (FEO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>FEO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>4C does suck and I, like many, feel somewhat robbed. Also, it is close to impossible to get rid of <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> Who will be the first brave soul to do it? <br> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>My plan to get rid of 4C: <B>TRADE-IN</B><p>(when the time comes, I'm still enjoying the car <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> )
 

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Re: (I Roll)

What is it with you guys and 4C?<p>I know it isn't perfect and it only changes what, the rebound dampening? But damn, it works fine with me...crappy road, use comfort...so so road, use sport...good road, use advanced. Sure, the whole suspension "crashes" as it hits bumps instead of being smooth, but I think the blame's on the design of the suspension as a whole and not so much the 4C's adjustability...if I'm wrong please explain...<p>When I had my 350Z it had a nice suspension on it, similar to our advanced setting, but that was it - it was always "on", there was no "off" button. Crappy road?...too bad...<p>Why exactly don't you guys like it?
 

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They don't like the fact that they have to actually replace their struts/shocks, and they cost a good penny. I guess they should've realized part prices before they bought the car. 4C was a great innovation, espescially for road conditions. They would probably complain about ride quality if the suspension was stiff all the time without adjustment. Complaining about a car you test drove before you bought, is like complaining about getting an STD after hiring a prostitute.
 

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Re: (S60R1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>S60R1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is it with you guys and 4C?<p>I know it isn't perfect and it only changes what, the rebound dampening? But damn, it works fine with me...crappy road, use comfort...so so road, use sport...good road, use advanced. Sure, the whole suspension "crashes" as it hits bumps instead of being smooth, but I think the blame's on the design of the suspension as a whole and not so much the 4C's adjustability...if I'm wrong please explain...<p>When I had my 350Z it had a nice suspension on it, similar to our advanced setting, but that was it - it was always "on", there was no "off" button. Crappy road?...too bad...<p>Why exactly don't you guys like it?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It became a really hot topic on here a couple years ago, mainly due to side hop. I think once people figured out ways to deal with the side hop the "anti-4C" threads started to disappear. That and the fact that there is really no easy way to get rid of it. I still use all 3 settings and think it was a good idea, just underdeveloped. The newer version in the current generation S80 seems to have a lot of the little issues ironed out.
 

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Re: (I Roll)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>I Roll</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It became a really hot topic on here a couple years ago, mainly due to side hop. I think once people figured out ways to deal with the side hop the "anti-4C" threads started to disappear. That and the fact that there is really no easy way to get rid of it. I still use all 3 settings and think it was a good idea, just underdeveloped. The newer version in the current generation S80 seems to have a lot of the little issues ironed out.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, from what I've read, side hop seems to be more related to the sway bars and some alignment tweaking, not necessarily the 4C's workings. And this is what I mean - the 4C is just a system that monitors the car and adjusts the dampening, which, to me, is great since it gives me the choice of a softer or stiffer ride. But the issues with our suspensions, i.e. the "crash" on bumps, side hop, understeer/oversteer, etc. seem more related to mechanical components, chassis and design than the 4C's dampening. Also, the AWD bias plays a part in the vehicle characteristics, especially when cornering, so I don't get why some blame everything on the 4C. Under developed, sure, I can see that, after all, we were the 1st application. BUT, I'd still rather have my 04 SUM program than the last years' softer programs, even if it means my ride is a bit harsher, because my advanced feels much tighter and that's what I want. It also seems like some don't understand that the car expects us, the human, to drive accordingly to the mode that we choose, i.e. don't race in comfort and so on, and some don't seem to get that. People also forget that this isn't a 3200lbs car like a Z...sure, Volvo could've used better springs/arms, better design (mechanical components, etc.), but all things considered (1st time system, a chassis designed as a 4 door sedan 1st - not a sports car, 3600lbs weight, cost controlled under BMW and Audi, etc.), it's not THAT bad IMO...some springs, sway bars, bushings and strut tower bars and I'm sure this car will handle good enough for what it is - a 4 door sport sedan! Until then, it handles just fine IMO...my only dislike is the crash effect on bumps, but the way I see it, mostly unrelated to 4C..<p>Un-related to the technicalities of the situation, but all my friends love the 4C. That with the 300HP/AWD are their favorites about the car. Their favorite mode is advanced. They know it crashes on bumps and they don't care, comfort is enough to get by without breaking your neck. This car was made to have fun, and when you play with it in advanced, it is fun!<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by S60R1 at 12:40 PM 4-4-2009</i>
 

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Re: (JoshV70_)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JoshV70_</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They don't like the fact that they have to actually replace their struts/shocks, and they cost a good penny. I guess they should've realized part prices before they bought the car. <p><b>True, they cost a lot and they hurt in the pocket. BUT, What really irks me is that you have to pay that much to get the same stellar underperformance</b><p><br>4C was a great innovation, espescially for road conditions. They would probably complain about ride quality if the suspension was stiff all the time without adjustment. <p><b>Variable dampening was not invented by Volvo. No innovation to speak of. It you want to call a 500Hz closed-loop control system innovation go ahead, but it's not. <p>You are correct in saying that driving in advanced mode constantly would be unbearable. Everybody here says "OMG have you driven an BMW?" I have and it is great but harsh. Further, all my BMW friends envy the ablity to soften the suspension.<p>HOWEVER, the failboat behavior of comfort is inexcusable. No self respecting factory would allow something like that out the door and call it "sports sedan". For those who don't believe, aske for a 2.4NA S60 next time you need a loaner. That IS a grandpa car by design, and the suspension is miles ahead of the "sport" version</b><p><br>Complaining about a car you test drove before you bought, is like complaining about getting an STD after hiring a prostitute. <p><b>LOL you win that one</b><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am curious, are you associated to VCNA? you have the connections to source a race car from Johann and friends....and you are in NJ ...hmmm<p>
 

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Re: (S60R1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>S60R1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> it's not THAT bad IMO...some springs, sway bars, bushings and strut tower bars and I'm sure this car will handle good enough for what it is - a 4 door sport sedan! Until then, it handles just fine IMO...my only dislike is the crash effect on bumps, but the way I see it, mostly unrelated to 4C..<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'm pretty much in agreement with you. The only thing I'm unsure of is the side hop. I had an S60 T5 before the R and side hop was not an issue, while the crashing over bumps still existed. I think it is a combination of things in the R including the constant dampening adjustments from the 4C. Like you said though, there are mechanical fixes that can be done to get around it.
 

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I hate hitting discontinuities in the freeway at "65". It hurts my whole body to experience the thud of an overpass expansion joint. Feels like my old toyota pickup.
 

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Re: (JoshV70_)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JoshV70_</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They don't like the fact that they have to actually replace their struts/shocks, and they cost a good penny. I guess they should've realized part prices before they bought the car. 4C was a great innovation, espescially for road conditions. They would probably complain about ride quality if the suspension was stiff all the time without adjustment. Complaining about a car you test drove before you bought, is like complaining about getting an STD after hiring a prostitute. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Freekin brilliant post <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>FEO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4C does suck and I, like many, feel somewhat robbed.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I hate to sound crass, so please don't take this the wrong way...but what I find funny is that you bought your R used. Almost all of your complaints on the 4C (and as otherwise listed about the R) were fully documented on this forum 4+ yrs ago! None of these issues should come as a surprise.<p>How can you feel "robbed" when you didn't even pay full price for your 4C? It's worse on the '04 model than the '05+. It's also far worse with stock PZeros. It's also worse with stock springs/sways. Is it a perfect system? No. Should you have known this if you had done your homework? Well, yeah! Imagine if you'd taken one of the first deliveries of a new '04 before anyone had ever really driven it? Back then people talked about a phantom wheel hop/sidestep, etc. People debated getting SUM upgrades because some were worse/better than others. Now, it's just part of history and experience...and if you don't know about it...you didn't do your research.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>FEO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, it is close to impossible to get rid of <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> Who will be the first brave soul to do it?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's not impossible to get rid of at all!! Pull the fuse!! And, if you still don't like the suspension then replace it with some coilovers. Check the archives. It's been done...reluctantly by some and not so much by others.<p>-Eric
 

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Re: Re: (Sue Esponte)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate to sound crass, so please don't take this the wrong way...but what I find funny is that you bought your R used. Almost all of your complaints on the 4C (and as otherwise listed about the R) were fully documented on this forum 4+ yrs ago! None of these issues should come as a surprise.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is true. I'll admit that I did not read the swedespeed archives until I had the car in my possession. That does not change the fact that the system leaves a lot to be desired.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>How can you feel "robbed" when you didn't even pay full price for your 4C?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I do not think this particular point is of relevance to anyone but you. <p>I stand by my claim, 4C is a feature of the car, and its performance is subpar. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It's worse on the '04 model than the '05+. It's also far worse with stock PZeros. It's also worse with stock springs/sways. Is it a perfect system? No. Should you have known this if you had done your homework? Well, yeah! <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am not ashamed to admit that I did not "do homework" to the levels of intensity I do now. Again, this has nothing to do with the discussion of future improvements to 4C's performance.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Imagine if you'd taken one of the first deliveries of a new '04 before anyone had ever really driven it? <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>In all honesty, I feel bad for them. Don't get me wrong, the S60R is a great car, and was more-so when it came out. But on this particular issue, those people were let down. They bought and advanced suspension system, and got ....4C.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>It's not impossible to get rid of at all!! Pull the fuse!! <br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Good point, if you can ignore the dash error message, this is one valid solution<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sue Esponte</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>And, if you still don't like the suspension then replace it with some coilovers. Check the archives. It's been done...reluctantly by some and not so much by others.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I could not find anything. All I could find is references to the Evolve blue car having them and they sucking so much that they got pulled out??<p>could you please provide a reference to these coilovers and/or the original poster? TIA <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br>EDIT<br>Question for the accelerometer disconnecting crowd. Is DSTC fully functional when you do this?<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by FEO at 3:24 PM 4-5-2009</i>
 

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Re: Re: (FEO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>FEO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll admit that I did not read the swedespeed archives until I had the car in my possession.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Me either and I <B>definitely would not have purchased</B> one if I had!<p>So far, though, I've had nary a problem (still v. low miles on it) and don't find the 4C to be an issue. It certainly wasn't an issue when banging down the autobahn, snapping into advanced at 120 MPH, and finding it pretty tight up to 140 MPH. I suspect that I may not have the experience of some of you here to offer a critical evaluation of 4C. I just find that sport and advanced are each useful to me and I'm happy they're available to me on the same car; I've used comfort maybe once or twice.
 
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