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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Did one of those all day higher performance driving schools at Pacific Raceways out here in the Seattle area (was a birthday gift.)<p>I've been more or less happy with my '05 S60R. It's a nice compromise between a 4-door sedan and sports car. I knew it had good brakes but always felt the car's handling was nothing to really brag about. After my track experience though, I'm running around waving a Swedish flag. (Granted I've never owned an M3, S4, or Carrera S).<p>Here's my experience:<p>The first half of the day was classroom instruction and various drills to simulate potential hazardous situations you might encounter on the road. Not too exciting but fun. The second half of the day involved driving your car around the race track with an instructor in the car. You both wore helmets with a radio connected between you. You eventually could drive as fast as you wanted (at least my instructor let me do that.) They split the class into two groups, I think 8 cars each. So one group would go out on the track and do about a dozen laps at a time for three sessions.<p>A few people had paid extra to drive the Lotus Elise cars instead of their own. There were a few Porsches, an Infinity G35, Q45, Subaru WRX, one of those Lexus convertibles, and one guy had a 2005 Ferrari F430. At the same time there were about 10 or so people there who were not in the class but who were experienced drivers that had just paid to be able to drive their cars around the track. Most of them were driving Porsches (a few older air cooled and a few newer ones, mostly Carrera S models I believe). There was also a Subaru STI and a couple BMW M3's (the oldest and second oldest models) and a Corvette. So there were around 15-20 cars on the track at a time.<br> <br>Hanging out around all the cars, the Ferrari and the Volvo got the most attention from the instructors and some of the other drivers - both pretty rare cars that many people hadn't seen before in person. There were four cars that dominated the track: the newer Porsche Carrera S, Subaru STI, Ferrari F430, and that Sizzling Swedish Meatball Volvo Sedan. The Lotus Elises were also right up there but the conservative students weren't driving them to their full potential (three 40-something guys that were part of a surprise birthday gift for one of them.) The Corvette was never on the track the same time I was but I watched it get passed by some of the other cars (the Vette was the second to newest model). The new Carrera S' couldn't beat the STI in the straight away either- I loved it!<br> <br>Everyone I've talked to has asked so how fast did you go? The track's straight away allowed the Volvo to get up to about 115 MPH in 4th gear (about 6,300 RPM if I remember right) at which point you would go past the apex of turn 2 (a very slight turn) with your car passing within two feet of a wall and then you'd have to lay on the brakes and slow down for a sharp turn in about 100 feet of pavement. If my wife or one of my friends were riding in the passengers seat they would have peed their pants thinking for sure we were going to not stop quickly enough and go skidding off the track, I thought that, didn't pee my pants though, it never happened - gotta luv those Brembos. The car's performance exceeded my expectations all day especially the braking. Until 2/3 through the second session the car started losing power at 5,000 RPM like the rev limiter had been lowered. I figured it had gotten to hot or something and the engine computer was trying to protect the car. Well it was trying to protect the car because I'm guessing it had sensed an intermitent abnormally lean air/fuel mixture because as I was ending the session the low fuel light came on (I arrived at the track with about a half tank of gas that morning.) I'm guessing the hard cornering and acceleration with the the low fuel was causing the fuel pressure to drop. So I put 5 gallons of 100 octane racing gas in the car at $6.25/gallon. Went and drove the car for about 10 minutes to get the gas cycling through it. Had wished I knew how to do the ECU reset at that point but the car still ran great.<br> <br>Much of the track is in poor condition with some washboard, cracks, and minor potholes which I think the AWD on the Volvo gave me an advantage. The tread on my right front tire looks like it partially melted though. Good thing I put those factory ROSSO's I replaced with all-seasons back on the car beforehand as I don't like those tires for everyday driving so I could care less if I ruin them at the track.<br> <br>By the way, my '05 S60R has the TME suspension and the BSR Stage I ECU programming. No other mods.<p>I walked away at the end of the day exhausted with a big smile on my face and with a lot more knowledge about driving techniques and my car's abilities. I've never driven a Porsche, Lotus Elise, or Ferrari, but Volvo sure didn't disappoint. What a fun experience. I had a blast passing those air-cooled Porsche 911's. <p>By the way, I also confirmed the other day that I can eat a new SU 2000, at least from 40-90 MPH on the freeway. <p>Haven't had any problems with the car recently (knock on wood). Can't wait to go back to the track and chew up those Rossos.<p> <br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by jazee at 12:05 AM 6-8-2006</i>
 

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Re: First Track Experience (jazee)

Automotive racing (on the track) are some of the most rewarding, intense and adrenalin producing events I have ever experienced (along with Heli-skiing). <p>The skills you learn on a track will continue to be developed and honed as you practice on the street (safely, not speeding) and you will notice yourself experimenting with various car control aspects as well as finding proper turn-in lines, braking techniques and footwork at every opportunity. It is truly a great experience that everyone can benefit from.<p>Now that you have tried it, be careful, it is a true addiction (and expensive hobby) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: First Track Experience (jazee)

Sounds like a blast, wish more people on the board would take their cars out and do similar things with them. It's good for the driver and good for the car. Glad you enjoyed it, hope others chime in.
 

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Re: First Track Experience (vintagemilano)

Great story man, i have done this about 5 times in my prelude and i love it, I cant wait to do this in my R ( once i get one) <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> . Those skills pay off greatly when your faced with the crazyness on the roads, and after you go to all those events, it becomes second nature when your faced with trouble.
 

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Re: First Track Experience (jazee)

<br>ahhhh...partially melted front tire. That's when you know you had a good track day <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I bet the brake lines were cooked too.
 

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Re: First Track Experience (KillerB)

It is addicting.............<p><A HREF="http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl/hpdepix.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl/hpdepix.html</A><p><IMG SRC="http://www.r-series.org/wagons.jpg" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: First Track Experience (jazee)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jazee</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> The tread on my right front tire looks like it partially melted though. Good thing I put those factory ROSSO's I replaced with all-seasons back on the car beforehand as I don't like those tires for everyday driving so I could care less if I ruin them at the track.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Did your calipers turn gold and your R's orange? That's when you're really buidling heat in the brakes!<p>BTW, is there a way to reverse that?
 

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Re: First Track Experience (vintagemilano)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>vintagemilano</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a blast, wish more people on the board would take their cars out and do similar things with them. It's good for the driver and good for the car. Glad you enjoyed it, hope others chime in.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Anyone care to join me. <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=59514" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=59514</A> I don't want to be the only one running down 350Z's because that's just as addicting. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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some videos of my previous track sessions...<p><A HREF="http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=28CF758D-A12A-48E3-9E40-5&tc=512179" TARGET="_blank">http://www.vidiLife.com/index....12179</A><p><A HREF="http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=CCD2C19F-9F7C-445D-8448-5" TARGET="_blank">http://www.vidiLife.com/index....448-5</A>
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: First Track Experience (needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Did your calipers turn gold and your R's orange? That's when you're really buidling heat in the brakes!<p>BTW, is there a way to reverse that?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You made me run out to my car and check! Are you serious?<p>Blot, nice videos. I was thinking about setting up my camera that but since it was my first time I figured I'd wait until later. One thing about my track is that it has a steep downhill portion and then a hairpin turn. It's brutal. That track looked nice and open. What a blast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Vented Brake Rotors

On second thought, on that note about the calipers turning color...<p>While I didn't experience any noticeable fade with my brakes on the track, I felt like I could have pushed the car a little harder, braking later coming out of the straight-aways, but I didn't because I feared getting the brakes too hot and having something like that happen.<p>Has anyone here replaced the rotors or pads with a something other than the standard parts? I'm mostly thinking of vented rotors. Has anyone done those and are they worth doing, providing a significant benefit over the stock rotors especially at the track?<p>
 

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Not particulary. Stock rotors are just fine, in-fact S60R rotors and calipers are quite burly. What you need is cooling. <p>There are 2 ways to go about this: <br>1.) Brake ducts<br>2.) 2 peice floating rotors. <p>Ideally you want a combonation of both. I doubt any S60R owner went to the trouble and length to create brake ducts but they're great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I found this thread:<p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=57974" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=57974</A><p>Sounds like some titanium shims will help a bit and stainless steel brake lines wouldn't hurt (although I don't think they help the cooling any?)<p>My question is, I've already got some kind of shims installed by the dealer to fix the brake squeal issue. Can the titanium shims just replace those or do the factory shims have to remain?<p>Will the dealer have a problem installing the shims and SS lines for me? Seems like anything to do with brakes they would avoid due to liability issues but they did install my TME springs and take my money happily.<p>Seems like the consensus is the stock brakes work fine up to the point where you are doing over 110 MPH and need to slow down to like 20 or 30. My track I hit about 110 or so and only need to slow down to about 40-45. I did three sessions with a dozen laps each. There are two decent size straight aways for the brakes to cool down. Hence the calipers are still silver/grey (hurray!). I still want to increase my "breathing" room as I'd be pissed if my rotors turned color. <p>There's been mixed reviews on the Evolve rotors (just look cool). So should I just do the titanium shims and SS brake lines and be good? <p>Where do you get the 2 piece floating rotors and will the dealer pull their hair out installing them?<p>Where's the best place to get the shims and brake lines?<p>
 

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Here you go, this is the caliper spindal which bolts up to the Evo. This is actually a brand new product. The kit of course comes with ducts and proper hoses aswell.<p><IMG SRC="http://www.hostdub.com/albums/MikeForge_album04/DSC00626.sized.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>This is the BMW brake duct kit: <p><IMG SRC="http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/brakes/brakes_e36_ductkit_lg.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>You can get creative and create your own ducts with some ingenuity, hose clamps, and dry vac hoses aswell. Home Depot carries the parts you will need. <br>
 

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Re: (jazee)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jazee</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where's the best place to get the shims and brake lines?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Got mine here:<p><A HREF="http://www.takspeed.com/shop/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.takspeed.com/shop/</A><p>As respects keeping the brakes cool, this mod may be of help:<p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=58370" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=58370</A><p>Good luck!<p>Derek<br>
 

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When it comes to brakes, I'd just start with stainless steel lines and good brake fluid like Motul RBF 600. That allows for high brake temps. Then you also have to get performance brake pads, Hawk BLUE is great but will eat your rotors up. I swap in new pads before a race-day and go back to street pads to preserve my rotors. <p>The evlove rotor is a 2 peice with a aluminum hat. <p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (cpltk2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>cpltk2</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When it comes to brakes, I'd just start with stainless steel lines and good brake fluid like Motul RBF 600. That allows for high brake temps. Then you also have to get performance brake pads, Hawk BLUE is great but will eat your rotors up. I swap in new pads before a race-day and go back to street pads to preserve my rotors. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Why not the titanium shims? I wonder with the titanium shims and the stock shims on there for the brake squeal problem if there will be problems with the calipers clearing the 18 Pegs? I'm guessing not since I can't find a post about the titanium shims that indicates any kind of problem.<p>I saw a past post where JRL mentioned the dealer denied a warranty claim because the car had the racing blue fluid? I guess it depends on the dealer, but if the fluid is DOT spec, why would they have a problem if I wanted them to put higher performance brake fluid in the car?<p><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by jazee at 10:40 AM 6-8-2006</i>
 

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The amount of heat being generated from Rotor -> Brake Pad => Caliper is enough to make the rotor glow red in the dar. The heat being generated isn't going to phased even a little bit by a shim. Shims are more for anti-squeel then heat control. I'm not going to get into heat transfer and metallurgy but thats my simplistic answer. <p>I'm not gonig to mess around with a small plate when I can other more progressive things to control brake fade <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Oh yeah, denying a warranty claim with Super ATE Blue is f'n retarded, if the fluid is approved for use then it shouldn't matter. ATE comes stock from many euro mfg's. Volvo just doesn't happen to be one of them. Anyway if I was the owner of a brand new S60R, I'd go and use ATE Gold, it's exactly the same just a different color and dealer won't know <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I mean thats like going to the stealership with a broken fuel injector and they denying your claim because you used Exxon insetad of Sunoco gasoline.
 

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Re: (jazee)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jazee</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Why not the titanium shims? I wonder with the titanium shims and the stock shims on there for the brake squeal problem if there will be problems with the calipers clearing the 18 Pegs? I'm guessing not since I can't find a post about the titanium shims that indicates any kind of problem.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>From what I have read the ti shims work well. They are not in the same location as the part that fixes the squeal....IIRC that is actually a reinforced caliper mounting bracket. The Ti shims are for the pads, not the calipers. <p>Yes, this will actually happen if you get the brakes hot enough.....<p><IMG SRC="http://www.tradebotics.com/Brakes/LF-caliper.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>As far as brake cooling goes, I haven't seen much problems with that on this board, granted I'm not tracking so I haven't been looking for it. The stock setup seems to do pretty well, and we've had plenty of members do track outings. <p>When I was at Watkins Glen last month, RhaRdeR's brakes were starting to turn, but I didn't hear either he or Russell complaining they couldn't stop. Having said that, additional cooling is always good, but I don't think you need to start worrying about ditching the whole setup.
 
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