SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At what milage did you get your car's first service requested message? From what I understand it usually comes up at 10k miles or one year. We just got our service requested message at about 10 months and 8500 miles.
I would expect this because we are "hard" on the car meaning mostly short trips that don't always get the oil hot for long.
When we tried to schedule our appointment the dealer said to wait, that it was too early. I think I should push to have it done now. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
Is this abnormal or are others getting the service message early or late?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, makes sense. But 1500 miles early? At the rate we drive we will have to look at that message for two or more months?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
My service message came up at 10 months. I only had 6,000 miles so it was clearly time based and not milage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
The first service is at 10,000 miles OR 1 year, whichever comes first. I just had mine done, at the 1-year mark, and I had 6,900 miles on my car. My dealer didn’t recommend waiting until 10,000 miles. That would be stupid, irresponsible, and would go against Volvo’s schedule, which is based on projected wear-and-tear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,552 Posts
My dealer didn’t recommend waiting until 10,000 miles. That would be stupid, irresponsible, and would go against Volvo’s schedule
Your dealer wanted to do the service sooner because they get PAID.

It is NOT stupid or irresponsible to wait until 10k miles to do the first service, if it takes you longer than 12 months. Nothing done in the first service is so critical that waiting more than 12 months would cause any harm.
No, they wanted to do it because going beyond the service interval can cause you to forfeit that service. The time interval is 1 year. No matter the mileage. Failure to maintain the car per Volvo's required intervals is indeed irresponsible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,293 Posts
And driving less doesn't mean oil change should be delayed. 7k miles on city streets could have same impact on engine as 10k miles on freeway, due to higher RPM needed.

Ideally the computer should count the engine spinning cycles and also start times to suggest service time.

Sent from my Z978 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
This is a copy/paste from another popular internet car forum. The question was posed by a forum member, and the answer is from the (Verified) Chief Engineer of the car. Now, the info below covers a sports car and I'm posting it on a mid-size SUV forum, but hopefully it gives some insight into the complexities that manufacturers put into oil life and service interval calculations.

----Begin Quote----
__________________________________
Question:
I'm curious if the algorithm is exactly the same for the oil life monitor on the dry sump equipped cars as it is for the wet sump equipped cars? With the extra 3 quarts of oil in the dry sump (30% more oil), in theory the oil should last longer between changes and therefore I wonder if the Oil Life Monitor (OLM) allows for that extra mileage possibility? Also, how does the OLM take into account both the time factor and the mileage factor?


Answer:
This is one I bet a lot of people are curious about. Obviously, maintaining the quantity and quality of the oil in your engine is paramount for long term durability and performance. There are many things that work to deteriorate the quality of your oil and we make the oil life monitor (OLM) as accurate as we can to predict oil life in consideration of all of those variables. The simplest variable is the length of time the oil is in the engine. As you surmise in your question, this is an important variable. Oil ages sitting inside your engine differently than in a sealed container. It is exposed to more oxygen, humidity, various sealants and a variety of metals in your engine. Also, time causes things you might not expect to have an influence such as oxidation of your oil filter. To account for this variable there is an OLM clock that begins a year-long count down every time it is reset. So that is the best you can do…. Change your oil and filter once a year.

You also surmise that mileage should be a factor. We could use mileage, but it is more accurate to actually count combustion events. Every time the fuel and oxygen ignite in the cylinder a tiny quantity of contaminants slip past the piston rings and gets into your oil. Over time, these contaminants build up and hurt the oil’s lubrication capability. You can see this effect as the oil darkens over time.

OK, but all combustion events are not created equal, right? There is a big difference between cruising down the highway under light load and tearing it up on the track. On the highway, the coolant and oil stay relatively cool and there is little stress on the engine. On the track, when oil temps are high, oil molecules actually fracture and that hurts lubrication performance. We handle that buy adding a multiplier that compounds the number of combustion events that occur at higher temperatures. The hotter the oil, the more heavily we weight those events and the shorter the life prediction. On the other hand, running your engine at low temperatures stresses the oil as well. So we also have a multiplier that over-weights combustion events when it is cold. People who drive in cold climates and take relatively short trips are going to find they have shorter oil life. The display in the cluster is regularly updated to the lesser of the time-based or use-based metrics.

Lastly, to get to the first part of your question: No, the dry-sump cars do not use the same algorithm as the wet-sump. As you theorize, having more oil dilutes contamination and distributes thermal stress across a greater quantity of oil. Those are both true and, even though you get some life extension, it is not in direct proportion to the total quantity of oil in the system. Why not? Well the time-based degradation is very insensitive to oil quantity. And don’t forget the oil in dry-sump cars get more exposure to air and system metals (and other materials) because of the tank and plumbing. The extra oil quantity helps roughly in proportion to volume for contamination, but not quite in proportion when it comes to thermal stress. Since dry-sump cars are more likely to see track duty or hard street driving we tend to be a little conservative to make sure oil is changed before it falls below a performance level needed to assure perfect operation of your engine. Bottom line is that, depending how you use your car, the dry sump will have at least the life of wet sump, and probably somewhat more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the reply's. These are precisely my point. A lot low temperature events possibly degrading the oil. I would have to assume that Volvo has an algorithm more sophisticated that just a clock to tell me one year is up. If the car is telling me to change the oil at an earlier interval then it may be because the oil is degraded and not doing its job. Therefore I should change it, but my dealer is telling me not to- not knowing my driving habits. So, should I push back and tell them to do it now anyway?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,552 Posts
Sorry, but it's just a timer. The car is telling you to book an appointment. The message will change when it's time for service. And it will change again when service is overdue. This is outlined in the owners manual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
So, should I push back and tell them to do it now anyway?
No. If you have 8,500 miles on your Volvo at the 10-month mark, you should wait until you meet one of the thresholds, regardless of the car nagging you. I ignored the constant reminders on my dash until I hit the 1-year mark. It took a month or two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Most people don't keep a vehicle long enough to see the effects (if any) from a delay in oil change so I wouldn't obsess about it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
This is a copy/paste from another popular internet car forum. The question was posed by a forum member, and the answer is from the (Verified) Chief Engineer of the car. Now, the info below covers a sports car and I'm posting it on a mid-size SUV forum, but hopefully it gives some insight into the complexities that manufacturers put into oil life and service interval calculations.

----Begin Quote----
__________________________________
Question:
I'm curious if the algorithm is exactly the same for the oil life monitor on the dry sump equipped cars as it is for the wet sump equipped cars? With the extra 3 quarts of oil in the dry sump (30% more oil), in theory the oil should last longer between changes and therefore I wonder if the Oil Life Monitor (OLM) allows for that extra mileage possibility? Also, how does the OLM take into account both the time factor and the mileage factor?


Answer:
This is one I bet a lot of people are curious about. Obviously, maintaining the quantity and quality of the oil in your engine is paramount for long term durability and performance. There are many things that work to deteriorate the quality of your oil and we make the oil life monitor (OLM) as accurate as we can to predict oil life in consideration of all of those variables. The simplest variable is the length of time the oil is in the engine. As you surmise in your question, this is an important variable. Oil ages sitting inside your engine differently than in a sealed container. It is exposed to more oxygen, humidity, various sealants and a variety of metals in your engine. Also, time causes things you might not expect to have an influence such as oxidation of your oil filter. To account for this variable there is an OLM clock that begins a year-long count down every time it is reset. So that is the best you can do…. Change your oil and filter once a year.

You also surmise that mileage should be a factor. We could use mileage, but it is more accurate to actually count combustion events. Every time the fuel and oxygen ignite in the cylinder a tiny quantity of contaminants slip past the piston rings and gets into your oil. Over time, these contaminants build up and hurt the oil’s lubrication capability. You can see this effect as the oil darkens over time.

OK, but all combustion events are not created equal, right? There is a big difference between cruising down the highway under light load and tearing it up on the track. On the highway, the coolant and oil stay relatively cool and there is little stress on the engine. On the track, when oil temps are high, oil molecules actually fracture and that hurts lubrication performance. We handle that buy adding a multiplier that compounds the number of combustion events that occur at higher temperatures. The hotter the oil, the more heavily we weight those events and the shorter the life prediction. On the other hand, running your engine at low temperatures stresses the oil as well. So we also have a multiplier that over-weights combustion events when it is cold. People who drive in cold climates and take relatively short trips are going to find they have shorter oil life. The display in the cluster is regularly updated to the lesser of the time-based or use-based metrics.

Lastly, to get to the first part of your question: No, the dry-sump cars do not use the same algorithm as the wet-sump. As you theorize, having more oil dilutes contamination and distributes thermal stress across a greater quantity of oil. Those are both true and, even though you get some life extension, it is not in direct proportion to the total quantity of oil in the system. Why not? Well the time-based degradation is very insensitive to oil quantity. And don’t forget the oil in dry-sump cars get more exposure to air and system metals (and other materials) because of the tank and plumbing. The extra oil quantity helps roughly in proportion to volume for contamination, but not quite in proportion when it comes to thermal stress. Since dry-sump cars are more likely to see track duty or hard street driving we tend to be a little conservative to make sure oil is changed before it falls below a performance level needed to assure perfect operation of your engine. Bottom line is that, depending how you use your car, the dry sump will have at least the life of wet sump, and probably somewhat more.
Great information. Even if our cars do not use these algorithms, the information concerning oil serviceability is still valuable. I have always understood that short trips in cold weather are the hardest on engine oil.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
471 Posts
I would not. I've seen a lot of oil analysis, and unless you've got bigger problems, waiting 10k miles to change the oil is perfectly safe. Changing it earlier is a waste of money and natural resources.
I've had several Volvo vehicles and have always gone by the time, since I no longer drive excess miles... that being said, I did the one year (or 10K) service at about 6K and I'm coming up to the 2nd year mark in September/October time frame and I'm currently at about 9.5K... I have had no problems whatsoever, so I guess, it's either way, as previously my services were based on mileage... just mt 2 cents...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I am 5 months into my 2019 T6 Inscription and just got the service due soon notice and I only have 4,364 miles. I found this very odd and am not sure how to handle this other than call the local dealer where I got it. I thought perhaps it was related to an event the day before where I go the "Climate system running due to internal cooling message" on instrument panel. Which I not too long ago took the vehicle in for service to address that. It turned out to be a software update to fix. Additionally, my oil is still saying it's at max level which is also peculiar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
My nag warning for my 2018 XC60 started to show up at about 7000 miles roughly a month ago, 4 months ahead of schedule. I think the reason it's so early is I took a long road trip and the computer factored that into my estimated time to reach 10,000. I think once it's triggered it never turns itself off so even though I'm back to my normal driving schedule I still have to look at that warning every time I start the car.

I'm not concerned about it. I do think the computer should be a little bit more intelligent about the estimated time to reach 10,000 and be able to turn the warning off if it miscalculated. It ought not be terribly hard to run a regression line over the weekly miles to do an ongoing estimation. Also, it should really be able to disregard outliers in the trend line. The calculation it's doing seems extremely elementary and easily confused by a single datapoint that is outside the norm.

Kinda par for the course with this car. Some things done extremely well and other things done so poorly that it's hard to believe it wasn't designed by monkeys :thumbdown: banging on a keyboard.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top