SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,665 Posts
Isnt the '12 s60r a 2.5ltr 5pot??

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
You are confusing the '04-07 R's which were 5 pots unlike the '12+ R Designs which are T6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
You are confusing the '04-07 R's which were 5 pots unlike the '12+ R Designs which are T6.
You will note, orginal message was "s60r r-design" from snabb, hence my question as i wasnt aware that the s60r came as a 3.0ltr, only 2.5ltr. Wasnt sure if something was different in the states.
Anyway all cleared up now

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,097 Posts
The '12 is not an R, it's an R-Design so should be called S60 R-Design instead of S60R R-Design .. Confusing it is.. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,422 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,795 Posts
The differences between a Polestar and a T6 whether optimized or not is a different size turbo which is VERY VERY similar and would have no bearing on these results, and the tune. Remember the Polestar car had the same bolts (or very similar) to the test car.

The test car was subjected to test results across the stock tune and highly modified tune (putting out more power than a stock 15-16 Polestar). Stock airbox and the Snabb version were tested across each stock/modified tune versions. Each time the Stock Air-box came WELL under and showed it was a HUGE restriction. The Polestar cars have the same air-box as the T6 and if the vehicle is putting out more power than a stock T6 and the stock air-box is holding back power and torque, then that goes to show something. Of all the runs that were done that day, the modifications and High Flow Snabb intake out-flowed the stock air-box on the dyno by a TON of HP and torque.

The dyno technician was shocked at how much power the car lost when tuned while running the stock air-box.

Food for thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
The differences between a Polestar and a T6 whether optimized or not is a different size turbo which is VERY VERY similar and would have no bearing on these results, and the tune. Remember the Polestar car had the same bolts (or very similar) to the test car.

The test car was subjected to test results across the stock tune and highly modified tune (putting out more power than a stock 15-16 Polestar). Stock airbox and the Snabb version were tested across each stock/modified tune versions. Each time the Stock Air-box came WELL under and showed it was a HUGE restriction. The Polestar cars have the same air-box as the T6 and if the vehicle is putting out more power than a stock T6 and the stock air-box is holding back power and torque, then that goes to show something. Of all the runs that were done that day, the modifications and High Flow Snabb intake out-flowed the stock air-box on the dyno by a TON of HP and torque.

The dyno technician was shocked at how much power the car lost when tuned while running the stock air-box.

Food for thought.

That's funny, my dyno tech was shocked at how much power the car lost when running the Snabb airbox. In my opinion there are more (subtle) differences rather than different size turbo between the cars including ECU soft.
Would really love to see the TON of HP and torque gain in my car.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
784 Posts
That's funny, my dyno tech was shocked at how much power the car lost when running the Snabb airbox. In my opinion there are more (subtle) differences rather than different size turbo between the cars including ECU soft.
Would really love to see the TON of HP and torque gain in my car.
We'll keep doing research on our end and I'll plan to get in touch with you when we get the next round of Dyno testing completed. It will take a longer to set up than our last test but I'm working on it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,795 Posts
That's funny, my dyno tech was shocked at how much power the car lost when running the Snabb airbox. In my opinion there are more (subtle) differences rather than different size turbo between the cars including ECU soft.
Would really love to see the TON of HP and torque gain in my car.
Believe it or not, I have seen both ecu files and spoken with my tuner in regards to both the T6 Optimized and Polestar files. Both are EXTREMELY similar. The tuning would have no difference on the air box flow rates. Turbo requests XXX amount of air and it tries to get it from the airbox.

Now if the T6 optimized car even on stock tune is slower, less air flow than the Polestar cars...my stock airbox was a huge bottle neck. Its the same airbox in Polestar cars, even all the intake plumbing is the same. I would expect the more powerful Polestar to show even more flow issues versus the T6 optimized. But through our testing, it shows that even on the T6 optimazed stock tune...the stock air box holds back 8awhp and 9awtq (you should really see how much it affected my tune LOL).

So whether or not you or anyone else has a Polestar, the stock box is still the bottle neck in this situation. That is the truth and though it may not sit well with everyone, believe it or not Volvo engine parts and performance parts CAN be upgraded. The stock box is not the best design and never will be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
It will be nice to see further test results. Seem strange to me that the engineers at Volvo would use turbos and design an inadequate air supply system. I can understand a mod like this in conjunction with an exhaust mod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
It will be nice to see further test results. Seem strange to me that the engineers at Volvo would use turbos and design an inadequate air supply system. I can understand a mod like this in conjunction with an exhaust mod.
It's incredibly common for factory induction systems to be inadequate, or at least not the most efficient designs in terms of their power potential. Engineers designing underhood components have a slew of things they need to consider, including available space underhood (or lack thereof), quick warmup times for convenience and also maintaining low emissions targets, and a big one that they shoot for is noise reduction. Companies designing sedans for the mass market place a high value on low noise in the interest of making a car seem refined to the prospective buyer who doesn't want a lot of or maybe even any induction honk or turbo hiss. Just like exhaust systems are designed to keep things quiet out back (while often being a restriction in the process), the factory intake serves as a muffler to reduce induction noise, and most companies are willing to sacrifice a few hp in the interest of keeping things quiet, refined, and able to meet emissions targets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
Do you have any photos showing the number of, and orientation of, fans/airflow used during both dyno sessions?
I don't have any but going to another dyno sessions in next week or two to the same shop and can take some photos if you'd like to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,175 Posts
I don't have any but going to another dyno sessions in next week or two to the same shop and can take some photos if you'd like to.
Please do.

The number of and orientation of fans is very important to determine whether the car is getting sufficient airflow for its intake system/intercooler/radiator.

I've seen cars get air choked and underrate their dyno results due to this. They can overheat, suffer from heat soak and cause insanely high air intake temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
My elevation is 250 meters above see level and all runs were at similar conditions, relative humidity was 70%. The fact is that the same day and only minutes apart the standard airbox performed better than Snabb's. I am guessing that there are some more important issues having an affect like sucking warm dirty air from engine bay unlike stock airbox does.
I think you may be onto something here. Air volume and temperature. If IAT rises too much the ECU may be holding back timing or power which may account for the power loss especially with the larger turbo on the P* vs R-design. It should be possible to look at intake temps and airflow during these dyno runs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
It's also quite possible that one intake won't make more power and might in fact make less power than the previous intake if the ECU had adapted to the previous intake, and fuel trims hadn't had time to adapt to take advantage of the new intake's differing airflow characteristics. You might need hours if not days of running around with the other intake to adapt and see gains, whereas initial pulls with that intake might show no gain or even a loss until that adaptation occurs. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it is a possibility. I'm of the belief that back to back, same-day dyno testing of different parts is overrated as it often overlooks the fact that most modern cars have some flexibility built into their tunes to account for changes in airflow and exhaust flow among other things, but that adaptation sometimes takes a while for timing and fueling to sort themselves off and for the car to run optimally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Snowek have you noticed a slight drop in registered mpg? On my normal commute, my car has been registering about 1 mpg less after the DP and IC.
I'm enjoying DP so much that can't stop listening to it therefore it's hard for me talking about "normal commute" and drop in mpg ;) This could be possible though because my average consumption raised only little bit compared to my driving habits, which were much more agressive recently. I'm currently on 14.5 l/100km which is about 20mpg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
So... had another dyno day. First of all did photo shot of airflow for intake. It really blows there. Second of all had Rica tune installed (special written for me taking advantage of my mods) when leaving Dyno last time in December which I didn't want to share then because didn't have more time to find out the results. Yesterday I did first dyno run with Rica and the mods I mentioned at the very beginning of this post (+Snabb Turbo Intake, -Snabb Airbox) and it showed 369,9 HP and 612,7 torque.

I had Snabb Turbo Intake piping uninstalled afterwards and back to stock Polestar turbo intake piping. I was running another dyno session within 3 hours with the same Rica tune and it showed 390 HP and 640 torque. Did six more dyno runs that day and all they showed pretty much same power between 387-390 and torque between 640-650. No one will convince me now that stock intake system vs moded shows any kind of restriction and is a bottle neck. There was one gain I noticed when back to stock airbox , second gain I noticed when back to stock turbo intake so in my opinion those mods are for those looking for visual and sound tuning rather than performance in your Polestar. Talking about performance it's a freaking brutal and insane Polestar beast now. :)

 
21 - 40 of 53 Posts
Top