Face-lifted S80 to get V8...

2143 Views 22 Replies 8 Participants Last post by anony00gt, Apr 28, 2002

S.R.

Discussion Starter · Apr 6, 2002

Check out the April issue of CAR Magazine on page 51, here is what it says...

quote:

Over at Volvo, Reitzle says that he's found a way to fit a V8 engine across the nose of the S80 executive car, setting it up for the facelift, giving attention to the steering, and doing a re-launch. It might not be so complicated, as the S80 can accomodate a transverse straigh-six. Readers with long memories recall Cosworth developed a V10 engine that would fit in the S80, but it went no further than a prototype.

Rumors are that this V8 engine has been develped by Yamaha specifically for the S80. Some of you folks might remember that the first generation Taurus SHO had a Yamaha V6 engine that was very highly praised, one of the best V6 engines to have been produced. Yamaha has an excellent reputation, so I guess we will have to see what happens.

-Drew

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

GrecianVolvo

· #2 · Apr 6, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by InDy:
Check out the April issue of CAR Magazine on page 51, here is what it says...

Rumors are that this V8 engine has been develped by Yamaha specifically for the S80. Some of you folks might remember that the first generation Taurus SHO had a Yamaha V6 engine that was very highly praised, one of the best V6 engines to have been produced. Yamaha has an excellent reputation, so I guess we will have to see what happens.

-Drew

Drew,

the Yamaha story has been circulating in Goteborg a few years, now...I hope they settle on something although, IMO, I would think that the priority would be to make this car even more luxurious, a bit more powerful (in both ends but especially the 2.9) and offer AWD. They should not spend too much brain matter in how to be able to fit a V8 or a V10. Sure, such an achievement would elevate the car but not nearly enough to justify the R&D costs.

Or even better...develop the engine but launch a 7-series/S-class fighter, a VERY luxurious S80 or S100. Something that will make people look at such car and say "wow, I did not expect this from Volvo!". Heck, even the Volvo Wannabes, a.k.a. VW, are entering the fray!

Yannis

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[email protected]

· #3 · Apr 8, 2002

If a couple of years is how old this story is, there's some irony there as Yamaha also developed the first Taurus SHO motor also, and with Volvo being owned by Ford now.... well.... okay, maybe it's not that ironic.

Still, to be a player in its segment, the S80 needs a couple of thigns, and among them is a large displacement motor.

GrecianVolvo

· #4 · Apr 9, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:

Still, to be a player in its segment, the S80 needs a couple of thigns, and among them is a large displacement motor.

I don't know about that George...why do you think that? Interested to know...

IMO, the S80 has ample power delivery and a very smooth/quiet engine to stay competitive or ahead in its class. Volvo has room to make this engine slightly larger (up to 3.2L) and more powerful, if they want to.

I agree that Volvo needs to use a larger displacement engine but I think that it would go to waste if it were to be used on the current or even upgraded S80. We need the...S100!

Get it out of the drawing plans, Volvo, and the prototype testing and...PRODUCE it!

Yannis

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S.R.

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 9, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by GrecianVolvo:

I don't know about that George...why do you think that? Interested to know...

I am assuming that the 2nd generation S80 will use the next Lincoln LS & Jaguar S-Type platform, and if so, I am hoping that it goes RWD or at least AWD. The S80 faces very stiff competition from the 5-Series, E-Class, and A6-Range and I think that having a V8 in this class is a must have for bragging 'Rights & Status'. Maybe Volvo should produce an S100 to compete with the 7-Series, S-Class, and A8-Range. That would be kind of cool!

-Drew

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pj's 850

· #6 · Apr 16, 2002

Hey guys,
My father owns the s80 t6, not me, but I have driven it on many an occasion. Its funny, he got it because he thought it would be less flashy than a mercedes or BMW, he thinks for the money, and in his past experience, the Audi's A6 or A8 arent worth it, but we both think they have a nack for design, I love the look of Audi's inside an out. Anyway, he had problems with the autotransmission in his car. I hope they have since fixed it. I think volvo needs to improve the material quality of there cars some. Now I havent been in the newer s80 or any of the others cars, his is a 99, So im assuming its the same. It seems like volvo took a milestone step forword in visual design and backwords in quality. I do like the seats in the s80, I like the soft feel, even on long trips. Plastic is allowed in a car, but it would be nice to have the doors and dash rapped in real leather. BMW atleast offers this an option, and it really adds some character. The s80 is quick, but again the transmission really holds it back. I would like to see the volvo have a really nice, maybe 6 speed auto, transmission, more power, like over 300, and that distinctive volvo sound. I was thinking, imagine an straight 8 with a turbo, as a T option of course, a T8 if you will. That would be neat. And I also think it would be neat if Volvo came up with something that is more competitive with AMG and M- cars. Something that makes them more distinctive, like maybe R badging all over, like in the car, and some sort of neat racing look logo for it. Handeling could also use some refinement, they have a good luxary car ride, good balance between comfort and sporty handeling. It would be really nice if it had an adjustable suspension, one that you can adjust the stiffness. Thats all I have, other than that the Volvo S80 is really a nice car.
-MATT

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[email protected]

· #7 · Apr 17, 2002

Figure it like this, the S80 is a competitor to the E-class, A6, and 5-series, in addition to the PAG cousin the Jag S-Type, All of these cars offer a V8 and/ore larger displacement.

I think the closest competitor to the S80 is the A6 personally. It's both fwd and awd, and has engine choices that range (at least here in the states) from the 3.0 V6, and 2.7-liter biturbo to the 4.2V8. The 3.0 is the biggest seller.

Those cars also feature manual trannys in their sportier models except for the Jag.

An S100 would be a competitor for the Jag XJ, A8, 7Series and S Class. I'm not so sure Volvo should be playing in that market, as it's more cannibalisit of Jag, though they could choose to do so with a more entry level price etc. and make it the working man's entrant in that class.

GrecianVolvo

· #8 · Apr 17, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
Figure it like this, the S80 is a competitor to the E-class, A6, and 5-series, in addition to the PAG cousin the Jag S-Type, All of these cars offer a V8 and/ore larger displacement.

.

They offer larger displacement because they are not turbos. The only turbo variant, the A6 2.7T has a similar displacement as the T6. I, personally, do not believe that "fattening up" the S80 will make it more popular. The S80 is what it is. It can use some minor enhancements and that's it. Its straight 6 engine limits the amount of mods Volvo can make. And they do not believe in the "V" engines. So, as long as they use inline engines, that's it!

Yannis

Kai

· #9 · Apr 17, 2002

Heavy FWD V8?! What is Volvo thinking? Make a old people's lame Caddy outta Volvo? I don't think sport sedan buyer will be too crazy about that if that's the market segment they were aiming for.

[email protected]

· #10 · Apr 18, 2002

I'd imagine they'd make AWD standard on those cars if they did it.

Second, Reitzle recently admitted that they had figured out a way to get an 8cyl into the current S80. I think it's a matter of time, because the S80 Mk 2 is still a ways out.

They had even figured a way to fit a Cosworth built V10 into the car according to another report I'd read.

Again, this is all heresay, but I think the 8cyl is fairly likely.

Last, Audi has the 2.7T, but all of the normally aspirated cars are larger displacement, and I think for image reasons. Audi and BMW compete head to head. BMW introduced the 3.0 and Audi was quick to bump themselves up to. The new 3.0 from the VW Group is nice, but it was probably wouldn't have happened if BMW hadn't done it first.

From a perception standpoint, it wouldn't hurt to have an S80 that's a 3.0 or a 4.0 or larger as it'd be a perceived competitor to the 540 and the A6 4.2.

If I were going to buy an A6, I'd buy the 2.7T with 6speed manual. But, I'm not the typical A6 buyer and numbers show that.

Plus, even if they wanted to, I don't think a manual would fit in the S80.

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S.R.

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 19, 2002

I think that Volvo has a great chance here for the face-lifted S80. They should offer buyers a choice of 3 engines with Haldex AWD: a 3.0-I6 NA, 2.9 I6 TT, and 4.X V8. I think that this would really bring it into alignment with the A6-Range, 5-Series, E-Class, and S-Type.

-Drew

GrecianVolvo

· #12 · Apr 19, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by InDy:
I think that Volvo has a great chance here for the face-lifted S80. They should offer buyers a choice of 3 engines with Haldex AWD: a 3.0-I6 NA, 2.9 I6 TT, and 4.X V8. I think that this would really bring it into alignment with the A6-Range, 5-Series, E-Class, and S-Type.

-Drew

I still disagree with you gyus. OK, let's suppose that Volvo comes up with a 4.2 or whatever V8 engine...I seriously doubt that such a setup will sell that many S80s in order to justify paying off the huge devlopment costs for such engine and the huge costs associated in certifying such car for the US (because in the rest of the world, forget it...huge taxation penalties would make such car with this engine size prohibitive and only palatable to few). BMTroubleYou has 3 engines available in the 5-series, one of them being the VENERABLE and PROVEN V8 (what a wonderful engine!)...how many 525s, 530s and 540s are being sold? Even a proven car like the 540 is outsold by the other two but mainly by the 530 (and 528 until recently). Take the Audi A6. Of the three models available (A6 2.8/3.0, A6 2.7T and A6 4.2) how many sales are attributed to the A6 4.2? Not nearly enough. And many agree that the A6 2.7T is much more enjoybale to drive (and as quick) as its V8 brethren. Today's turbocharged engines are so advanced and so refined that going to bigger displacement is not really worth the R&D cost. Why did Audi and BMTroubleYou did it? Their V8s already existed (from the 7-series and A8, respectively) and it was not that expensive to slam them in to their midsize models. Same thing for Volvo...as if they managed to stick the T6 engine into the S60 T5...so, we would have an S60 T6! The costs asociated with such move would be far less and would make the S60 pretty appealing (and I guarantee you that the T5 would outsell the S60 T6 anyway)...

I understand the side of your brain that monitors your enthusiasm screams for a V8 in the S80 but the side of the brain of Volvo engineers and Marketing people dictates "NO". I can agree with that approach. Developing an S100? With a V8 or even a V10? Sure! Then you need the "appeal" and "prestige" of such engine.

OK, I guess I babbled enough...

Yannis

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towerymt

· #13 · Apr 19, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by InDy:
[Volvo] should offer buyers a choice of 3 engines with Haldex AWD: a 3.0-I6 NA, 2.9 I6 TT, and 4.X V8.

I was about to ask if anyone knew whether a V8 would be replacing or joining the 6 and TT6. I think more engines would be much better than one big engine. More Audi-like, which can't be a bad thing.

BTW, isn't the n/a-6 2.9L, or did it increase in displacement when the TT6 went to 2.9L?

GrecianVolvo

· #14 · Apr 19, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by towerymt:

BTW, isn't the n/a-6 2.9L, or did it increase in displacement when the TT6 went to 2.9L?

It still is 2.9l.

Yannis

S.R.

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 19, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by towerymt:
BTW, isn't the n/a-6 2.9L, or did it increase in displacement when the TT6 went to 2.9L?

Yup, it is still 2.9L. 3.0L was just wishful thinking on my part. These days, it seems like most ~3.0 liter engines are making close to 225hp or so. But, I have heard that the 02' S80 2.9NA has much better power and response than before.

-Drew

[email protected]

· #16 · Apr 19, 2002

I still think the main reason it would happen is to keep up with the Jones's. I prefer a turbocharged motor, but many luxury buyers prefer displacement. Is it worth it from a sales standpoint, maybe not. Is it worth it from a prestige standpoint and bragging rights, possibly.

anony00gt

· #17 · Apr 25, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by InDy:
Some of you folks might remember that the first generation Taurus SHO had a Yamaha V6 engine that was very highly praised, one of the best V6 engines to have been produced.

I have a friend with a '92 SHO 5-speed. I can say from firsthand experience that it is one amazing engine. I believe it used Cosworth heads though.

anony00gt

· #18 · Apr 25, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
I prefer a turbocharged motor, but many luxury buyers prefer displacement.

How about turbocharged displacement?

What's the advantage of a turbocharged engine over a higher displacement engine, assuming they both make about the same power? The only thing I can think of is that the turbo won't be spooled at cruising speeds. The power from a high displacement powerplant will come on in a more linear fashion and (in my opinion) is easier to control than a turbo one.

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towerymt

· #19 · Apr 25, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by anony00gt:
What's the advantage of a turbocharged engine over a higher displacement engine, assuming they both make about the same power?

Size, weight, and boost. On a stock motor, it's easier to crank out more boost to make more power. In VW terms, the VR6 makes more power than the 1.8T, but chip the 1.8T and it's about even. However, the VR6 has always been known as sort of a front heavy pig compared to the 4cyl. cars, so it loses out in the handling and power to weight ratio. Supercharge the VR6, and it takes the lead again, but it still won't handle as well.

S.R.

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 25, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by anony00gt:
I have a friend with a '92 SHO 5-speed...

Nice car! Isn't the 5-speed fairly rare?

-Drew

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