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Everyone please read. (forum behavior)

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Everyone please read. (R section behavior)

I made this into a thread in case some don't visit the original thread this was posted on. I am glad sh8kdwn posted this. Well said. Discuss.

Quote, originally posted by sh8kdwn »


Oh Swedespeed......when will you learn? First off let me say that I appreciate those who actually are willing to help our new members by answering their seemingly simplistic inquiries. Although the same questions are asked by those who are new to the R time and time again you take the high road, suppress your ego, and actually offer to share your experiences and in the process you enrich the whole community experience.

Perhaps I am cut from a different cloth and would rather help someone than rush to chastise a new member and complete stranger. After all, new members are the lifeblood of innovation. By actively driving them off for such idiotic reasons as failure to know how to properly search our forum or grammatical errors you are in effect cutting off potential resolutions for the issues that plague our Rs. I guess we will never know if this kid, with more engine building experience than 99% of us, may have known how to easily circumvent the sleeve cracking issues to which our engines are prone.

Yes, we are all Volvo nerds to some degree. Having come from other Volvo forums prior to Swedespeed I will tell you that I joined with much trepidation. After all, S.S. does not have the most welcoming reputation amongst Volvo forums. Surprised? If you are surprised then I will explain what the perception of this forum is briefly. If you are not then you may skip the next paragraph.

Wrong or not the Swedespeed community is discussed using the following adjectives; elitist, wealthy, middle-aged, close-minded, OEM-loving, snobbish, unwelcoming, uninventive, inexperienced, D1cks. Most of us know that these are grossly inaccurate but we have been able to stave off insults and personal attacks on our experiences and intelligence from other members in our first few posts.

Having spent some time immersed in various Volvo boards it becomes apparent that there are different ways of delivering information. Turbobricks, Volvospeed, Swedespeed, v70r, etc... all have different reputations. Ones experience on the board is a direct result of how other members treat you and, as with anything, first impressions are critical.

Imagine going to a doctor for the first time (thinking they were an expert in their field) and asking for help.
-You ask, "Dr., I have been having alot pain in my chest, numbness in my arm, and general weakness. I'm not sure what is going on since I've never had these symptoms before. What could it be?"
-The doctor responds, "Oh GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (said as rolling his eyes). Read a pamphlet, there's some in the waiting room." Then the Dr. goes on to say, "It's not alot! It's a lot...two words!". Then the doctor exits the room ending the conversation.

Think about how that would make you feel. Would you go to that doctor again? Would you automatically think that all the doctors in that practice were probably just as abrasive? Wouldn't you badmouth the practice whenever someone says they may go there for an opinion? Now you see why the misconceptions about our community have developed and grown.

Now I really don't think that our most common offender is truly a bad guy. Nor do I think that he really understands the ramifications of his abrasiveness. Unlike him, I have read the 10 page thread on another forum that solely exists in response to his dickishness. The true travesty is that there is a tremendous amount to be shared from our collective experiences (many from the aforementioned individual) that is stiffled because of the less than welcoming way some new members are treated. Frankly it's an embarrassment to the community as a whole.

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Re: Everyone please read. (o2k)

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »


Swedespeed.com Forum Rule
...
# No cross-posting. (see spamming above)
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I had read it in the original post.
Very well put; and I support the re-posting.
http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
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Re: Everyone please read. (o2k)

Thanks for posting this. And I agree 100%. His analogy about the physician was spot on. People come here for advice and tips on their caRs, but more so (IMHO) to belong to a community And what community actively strives to put it's members down?

Yes, people probably could search. Yes, people could pay a bit more attention to grammar and spelling. But neither of these things is an indication of the value each member can provide to the group. And maybe, just maybe, the new members are using their "issue" or "question" as a way to introduce themselves, or start a post? Maybe they feel odd jumping into an existing thread, or reviving a 2+ year old post. Hell, they'd most likely get chastised for that too.

It's fun to bust on each other, it's fun to be sarcastic. But many on here do come across as elitist and arrogant. We own the cream of the crop of Volvo's (whether some of you want to admit it or not). But that doesn't give us the right to berate people or treat them with contempt.

I'll close with this...
At the BVV get-together several months ago, quite a few of the Volvospeed guys were surpised to meet the SS guys. One of them commented to me that he was surprised I was a member of SS, because of the way I acted and spoke. That other folks have these preconcieved images of us doesn't say much for us as a group. And i'll also say this, each time an R pulled into the bay, the younger guys all stopped and stared like a celebrity just walked in. The caR has that kind of presence. Let's not have people think that if they "graduate" to an R someday, they'll start talking down to people, and thinking any question posed to them is a waste of their valuable time.

Off the soapbox now...
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Re: Everyone please read. (AthruC)

I think that anybody who knows anything about car or forums in general should know to SEARCH first before posting. The information is readily available; forum is a database of knowledge. It's faster to search than to wait for replies as is. There are various threads on almost every given topic. So it's not a crime for somebody new to ask a question but there's no reason not to search first as to not make dupicate threads when other people actually do search.
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Re: (-Pascal)

I appreciate the visibility but feel that a link to the original post would give a little more of a well-rounded view of what my diatribe was in response to.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=114680

My reply was not triggered by this one event but rather the frequency with which this occurs in various threads.
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Re: Everyone please read. (o2k)

Quote, originally posted by sh8kdwn »

I have read the 10 page thread on another forum that solely exists in response...

This just highlights the difference in the different forums. The fact that there is a 10 page thread soley about this says a lot. All of the forums have their good and bad points.

As far as the initial posts go, I think a burn from one of the members makes it pretty funny as long as another member chimes in and explains that it is all in good fun. The different personalities add to the fun of the forum. In the end if you can pop your cherry and get through post #1 then you end up learning a TON.
http://********************/smile/emcocktl.gif http://********************/smile/emlove.gif
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Re: Everyone please read. (I Roll)

I disagree. Not in the first post of a new member. You need to get a feel for the new guy (and vice versa) before teeing of on them, even if it is in fun.

And again, this focus on the "search" thing is pathological. Let it go. There's no reason to jump on someone new because they didn't search. Maybe they're not even familiar with the website design. Search doesn't work. The link should be disabled.
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Re: Everyone please read. (xman03)

Quote, originally posted by xman03 »
I think that anybody who knows anything about car or forums in general should know to SEARCH first before posting. The information is readily available; forum is a database of knowledge. It's faster to search than to wait for replies as is. There are various threads on almost every given topic. So it's not a crime for somebody new to ask a question but there's no reason not to search first as to not make dupicate threads when other people actually do search.

Any other forum that might be true, but here in SS land, we answer almost as fast as a google search.

Also, don't assume everyone knows something about cars. There's a 1st for everything.

And yes, there are reasons to ask the same question again, such as up-to-date information. If I find what I'm looking for and the thread is from 2006, you bet your a** I'm going to start a new thread. Lots can happen in 3 years
Sometimes, the keywords I search for don't give me what I'm looking for, and I don't have an hour to read through dozens of related threads looking for a needle in a haysack. There are always reasons.

Swedespeed also confuses its new members. How do we expect people to use google search when we have a button labaled "SEARCH" all by itself? My initial thought when I saw this was "one is for google, one is for the forum, I don't want to leave the forum, so I'll use the search one". We should get rid of the regular search or re-label the links.
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Re: Everyone please read. (T5 for Life)

Quote, originally posted by T5 for Life »
I disagree. Not in the first post of a new member. You need to get a feel for the new guy (and vice versa) before teeing of on them, even if it is in fun.

In reference to the OP in the original thread, he was a member for 225 days. IMHO it pays to be a "lurker" for a short period of time. It wouldn't take long to figure out the personalities of some of the regulars.
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Re: (sh8kdwn)

Quote, originally posted by sh8kdwn »
I appreciate the visibility but feel that a link to the original post would give a little more of a well-rounded view of what my diatribe was in response to.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=114680

My reply was not triggered by this one event but rather the frequency with which this occurs in various threads.

I wanted to post it but I felt that your comments didn't represent actions in just one thread so I left it out.
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Re: Everyone please read. (S60R1)

The website layout is easy enough. It does not take a genius to figure the way around it. Furthermore even if searching doesn't help 100%, the person who searched and read older threads will have more background and knowledge about the topic he's posting. Lastly the SS forum is way slower and has less traffic than the forums I'd frequest with my previous cars (s2ki and clubrsx); therefore slower and fewer replies.
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Re: Everyone please read. (I Roll)

Quote, originally posted by I Roll »
In reference to the OP in the original thread, he was a member for 225 days. IMHO it pays to be a "lurker" for a short period of time. It wouldn't take long to figure out the personalities of some of the regulars.
Valid point, I was a lurker for a little while before I really jumped in.

I'm also a member and moderator of several other forums, so I'm familiar with forum etiquette in general. There's a first time for everything, it's not hard to imagine that many visitors here are not familiar with typical forum etiquette, my wife has never "frequented" a forum in her life, she'd get killed if she created an account and posted here, her questions and n00b attitude would not be well received. Unfortunately.
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Re: Everyone please read. (-Pascal)

... and if she posted that she was a female and a new forum visitor, they'd be on her like hawks on a mouse...
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Re: Everyone please read. (AthruC)

Quote, originally posted by AthruC »
... and if she posted that she was a female and a new forum visitor, they'd be on her like hawks on a mouse...

Yes.... yes I.. I mean they would.
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Re: Everyone please read. (o2k)

yeah I am new to this forum and still remember when JRL gave me poop because I didn't capitalize r properly... we are probably all empty as we put so much value in swedish inanimate objects...
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Re: Everyone please read. (o2k)

While it is inexcusable, attack mode replies are hardly unique to SS. I have been active on Hamradio TTY, BBS, and now the Internet for 40 years. I learned early on a few lessons

1) have a thick skin
2) ignore a lot of what you read (see #1)
3) there's a jerk in every bunch
4) only believe 1/2 of what you see and a smaller fraction of what you read
5) the cure is often worse than the disease
6) jerks are "noiser" than the good people
7) every post doesn't need a response
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Re: Everyone please read. (JimLill)

Just think about how each of us entered the community and what responses we received to our posts.

As a Non-Commissioned Officer in the Army, one thing I told myself when I made it here was that I didn't want to be anything like some of the crappy NCOs who brought me up. Utilize the good to make you better, leave the bad behind and do everything you can to not become that.

I would like to apply that to this community. We know how we like to be treated, try to pass that along. I love the fact that we have become as diverse as we have. It felt great meeting and hanging out with Phuz, being as young and open minded as we are, and having that common ground. Beyond our interest in cars that has brought us together, it is nice to know I can hang out with some of you guys, do something that has nothing to do with cars, and still have a good time http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
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Re: Everyone please read. (JimLill)

Please allow me to re-iterate an old post (topic related):

"The problem with you guys is that you know so much and been here so long that you have no more patience for the every day type threads. No pun intended, just human nature. Should we all search before posting? Absolutely. Do we all have time to search, know what to search for every time (keywords) or read all the results? Absolutely not. And keep in mind that some results are so old that it's often good to re-ask the question to get up to date answers. Forums remain one of the best places for fast help when needed. People go to forums for help. Not everyone comes here every single day to keep up with every single post. Questions will be repeated every so often. Sure, some are lazy and don't search, but let's try to keep this a positive experience for newcomers and old. My $0.02."
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Re: Everyone please read. (JimLill)

Quote, originally posted by JimLill »
While it is inexcusable, attack mode replies are hardly unique to SS. I have been active on Hamradio TTY, BBS, and now the Internet for 40 years. I learned early on a few lessons

1) have a thick skin
2) ignore a lot of what you read (see #1)
3) there's a jerk in every bunch
4) only believe 1/2 of what you see and a smaller fraction of what you read
5) the cure is often worse than the disease
6) jerks are "noiser" than the good people
7) every post doesn't need a response

Which is why Jim is a moderator emeritus
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