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Can we use ethanol based fuels in the R?<p>There is a gas station in the area that sells Ethanol...it is a little cheaper.<p>Just wondering if it will screw up the engine or mess with the turbo.<p><br>
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>esquiR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can we use ethanol based fuels in the R?<p>There is a gas station in the area that sells Ethanol...it is a little cheaper.<p>Just wondering if it will screw up the engine or mess with the turbo.<p><br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Depends on what the mix percentage is. If you're talking about normal fuel with like a 10% ethanol additive, then yes. That's what we have in NY and the R runs fine. <p>Otherwise, I don't think so.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>esquiR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a gas station in the area that sells Ethanol...it is a little cheaper.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I assume you're referring to E85. If so, you cannot run it in the R. Also, it may be cheaper but it is less efficient. Therefore, your MPG would drop thus negating the cost benefit.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>esquiR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just wondering if it will screw up the engine or mess with the turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am sure that the local dealer will be happy to void your warranty for this one.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (MagoonR)

the warranty will be useless. alcohol is very agressive toward oil, lubrication, and most of the rubber/plastics in the system.<p>do not use it.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

I ran a 50% ethanol blend in my modded 1999 Audi A4 1.8T. Forced induction engines handle ethanol much better than naturally aspirated, fixed-valve-timing engines. In any case, I ran this blend for many thousands of miles with 0 problems and only slightly reduced fuel economy.<p>I am using Minnesota's standard 10% ethanol blend in my R. I may up the percentage at some point, but I'm not monkeying with the car while it's under warranty, even though I'm fairly comfortable with the knowledge that it would run fine with a higher percentage.<p>People love to hate ethanol. It's not the "save-the-planet, solve-all-our-woes, and cure-cancer" magic liquid that the ardent proponents would have you believe, but it's also not going to make your engine pop out from under your hood and punch you in the gut either. Plus, as a Minnesotan, I like the fact that a portion of the money spent on ethanol will eventually make its way back to a farmer in Minnesota (or other corn-producing state).
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

A gallon of E-85 (fuel containing 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) has an energy content of 80,000 Btu — compared with about 118,000 Btu for a gallon of gas. We usually buy fuel by the gallon (volume), but we use it by the Btu. <p>It maybe cheaper to buy it at the station pump but not necessarily in terms of gas mileage. Try a few tanks and see what happens to your gas mileage.<p>(I wouldn't put it in my T5 and I'm nudging up against 170,000 miles now.)
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

The car isn't set up for flex-fuel. You would kill your seals or anything else that is rubber/plastic.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (needsdecaf)

Here in Alberta, Canada we can't get anything higher than 91 Octane without going to an Ethanol blended gas (10% ethanol additive). I was curious not for the cost savings but to try some 94 Octane fuel in my R. I wanted to be sure and contacted the dealer who in turn spoke to Volvo Canada. They indicated that while it will work it is not recommended. I have also noted through some of my investigations that you will find a noticable drop in gas mileage that more than offsets any potential savings at the pump.<br>
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (Vipergtsz3)

My next car had better be able to use E85. I'd gladly suffer the lower mileage and even higher price per gallon just to line the pockets of a farmer/ag business instead of the current oil company slimeballs. E85 is also much higher octane (100-105 octane).
 

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Folks,<p>Read your owner's manual. The answer resides therein.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (esquiR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Wall Street Journal, June 17.2006</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p><b>Can Ethanol Solve The Nation's Energy Problems?</b><br>June 17, 2006; Page A9<p>//snip<p>"Is ethanol cost-effective? At the moment, no. Demand for ethanol has caused the spot price to rise to more than $4 a gallon, which in turn is adding about 20 cents to each gallon of reformulated gasoline, according to Tom Kloza of the Oil Price Information Service. Ethanol also is less efficient than gasoline: A vehicle that gets 20 miles a gallon using conventional gasoline would get only 14.2 miles a gallon on E85."<p>//snip<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I don't know how wasting my money on a product that is more expensive and not as efficient hurts Exxon-Mobil. They won't even notice, but I sure will every time I fill up the gas tank.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>2006 V70 Owner's Manual</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Gasoline containing alcohol and ethers<br>"Oxygenated fuels"<p>Some fuel suppliers sell gasoline containing "oxygenates" which are usually alcohols or ethers. In some areas, state or local laws require that the service pump be marked indicating use of alcohols or ethers.<p>However, there are areas in which the pumps are unmarked. If you are not sure whether there is alcohol or ethers in the gasoline you buy, check with the service station operator. To meet seasonal air quality standards, some areas require the use of "oxygenated" fuel.<br>Volvo allows the use of the following "oxygenated fuels; however, the octane ratings listed on this page must still be met.<p>Alcohol - Ethanol: Fuels containing up to 10% ethanol by volume may be used. Ethanol may also be referred to as Ethyl alcohol, or "Gasohol".<p>Ethers - MTBE: Fuels containing up to 15% MTBE may be used. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><br>
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (bill d cat)

Why are you even thinking about cheaping out on fuel for such a high perf/high cost vehicle?<p>
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (dugums)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>dugums</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why are you even thinking about cheaping out on fuel for such a high perf/high cost vehicle?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Exactly. While I was at the grocery store, an R admirer asked me what MPG I get and whether it can run on regular. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Exactly. While I was at the grocery store, an R admirer asked me what MPG I get and whether it can run on regular. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Some people don't get it, but I can understand the question if that person has been driving a 4cyl Camry for 15 years and isn't a car nut.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (bill d cat)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>bill d cat</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A gallon of E-85 (fuel containing 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) has an energy content of 80,000 Btu — compared with about 118,000 Btu for a gallon of gas. We usually buy fuel by the gallon (volume), but we use it by the Btu. <p>It maybe cheaper to buy it at the station pump but not necessarily in terms of gas mileage. Try a few tanks and see what happens to your gas mileage.<p>(I wouldn't put it in my T5 and I'm nudging up against 170,000 miles now.)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>From WikiPedia...if you disagree with what it says, log on there and edit it yourself.<p>Read on...<p>E85 gives particularly good results in turbocharged cars due to its high octane [2]. It allows the ECU to run more favorable ignition timing and leaner fuel mixtures than are possible on normal premium gasoline. Users who have experimented with converting OBDII (i.e., On-Board Diagnostic System 2, that is for 1996 model year and later) turbocharged cars to run on E85 have had very good results. Experiments indicate that most OBDII-specification turbocharged cars can run up to approximately 39% E85 (33% ethanol) with no CEL's or other problems. (In contrast, most OBDII specification fuel-injected non-turbocharged cars and light trucks are more forgiving and can usually operate well with in excess of 50% E85 (42% ethanol) prior to having CEL's occur.) Fuel system compatibility issues have not been reported for any OBDII cars or light trucks running on high ethanol mixes of E85 and gasoline for periods of time exceeding two years. (This is likely to be the outcome justifiably expected of the normal conservative automotive engineer's predisposition not to design a fuel system merely resistant to ethanol in E10, or 10% percentages, but instead to select materials for the fuel system that are nearly impervious to ethanol.)<p>Fuel economy does not drop as much as might be expected in turbocharged engines based on the specific energy content of E85 compared to gasoline, in contrast to the previously-reported reduction of 23.7% reduction in a 60:40 blend of gasoline to E85 for one non-turbocharged, fuel-injected, non-FFV. The reason for this non-intuitive difference is that the turbocharged engine seems especially well-suited for operation on E85, for it in effect has a variable compression ratio capability, which is exactly what is needed to accommodate varying ethanol and gasoline ratios that occur in practice in an FFV. At light load cruise, the turbocharged engine operates as a low compression engine. Under high load and high manifold boost pressures, such as accelerating to pass or merge onto a highway, it makes full use of the higher octane of E85. It appears that due to the better ignition timing and better engine performance on a fuel of 100 octane, the driver spends less time at high throttle openings, and can cruise in a higher gear and at lower throttle openings than is possible on 100% premium gasoline. In daily commute driving, mostly highway, 100% E85 in a turbocharged car can hit fuel mileages of over 90% of the normal gasoline fuel economy. Tests indicate approximately a 5% increase in engine performance is possible by switching to E85 fuel in high performance cars.<p>
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (Moneypenny)

The above post was brought to you by <IMG SRC="http://www.monsanto.ca/gifs/bannerlets/DKB-east.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><br>Just kidding.<br>You'd have to be from the Midwest to understand.
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (Moneypenny)

Strange. It says that:<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Moneypenny</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>In daily commute driving, mostly highway, 100% E85 in a turbocharged car can hit fuel mileages of over 90% of the normal gasoline fuel economy. Tests indicate approximately a 5% increase in engine performance is possible by switching to E85 fuel in high performance cars.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Which means you're STILL getting less economy than regular gas but eariler it said:<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Moneypenny</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> Experiments indicate that most OBDII-specification turbocharged cars can run up to approximately 39% E85 (33% ethanol) with no CEL's or other problems. (In contrast, most OBDII specification fuel-injected non-turbocharged cars and light trucks are more forgiving and can usually operate well with in excess of 50% E85 (42% ethanol) prior to having CEL's occur.)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>So the entry is contradicting itself by telling you you can get better performance, but less mileage, but you'll get a CEL? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (Our R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Our R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The above post was brought to you by <IMG SRC="http://www.monsanto.ca/gifs/bannerlets/DKB-east.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><br>Just kidding.<br>You'd have to be from the Midwest to understand.</TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: ethanol based fuels (Moneypenny)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Moneypenny</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From WikiPedia...if you disagree with what it says, log on there and edit it yourself.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>As above, Wikipedia doesn't need me, the entry seems to disagree with itself. Volvo's engineers say you can use 10%, they also said I could use dino-juice instead of synthetic in my T5 but I never did. It still doesn't use oil. <p>I'm not going to spend $40k on a car and cheap out on the gasoline. Anecdotal reports are that gasohol can cause excessive wear on the gaskets in the fuel system. Maybe it doesn't but it's not worth $0.02/gallon with decreased fuel economy for me to find out. I'd save far more money by just not buying an R than I ever could with gasohol.
 
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