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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
All,

Got my car back last Friday from a complete Fluid+Filter and TBelt change including the water-pump. (All Filters and Belt kit + pump were original Volvo parts)
My mechanic said while he was completing the belt change, noticed whoever did the previous belt change wasn't paying attention at all and the timing was off compared the document from VIDA. It wasn't the original belt either.(different brand).
I said, hmmm, that's not the first thing we discover about this car, (wrong ignition plugs, un-tigthend intake pipe and few other things, which have been sorted since I bought the R).
After the service, the car still drives absolutely fine, no backfire/misfire pulls even better than before and the engine has more healthier sound too, however, when I completed the service interval reset within VIDA, noticed the 2 cel codes ECM-643A & ECM-644A.
These weren't present when I checked the car before this service/belt change. ( I have 2 other codes in present - Alarm Siren module signal missing, and Air Quality Sensor Signal too high)
Looking at the codes
  • ECM-643A Camshaft position, inlet - Signal too high
  • ECM-644A Camshaft position, exhaust - Signal too high

Both deleted several times and comes back right after the car restarts.

Called the mechanic and he states the timing was set correctly according to the document from VIDA. Also he's willing to look at it again once I'll bring the car back.

While searching on the net it came up, that sometimes engine oil can cause similar issues.
I need to mention here, the engine oil has been also replaced during the very same service with Valvoline MaxLife 10-40W, the exact same what I've use the past 3 years in my S60 2.0T with absolulte satisfaction.

The car has 80700 M on the clock and it is a late 2004 Model.

Before the oil change it had unknown engine oil in pretty bad state.
A month ago the oil level went below the 'dipstick min mark', 5 miles before arriving home. Error message was also lid on the dash saying oil level too low. After arrived home and the engine was cool again, used the same 10-40 Maxlife to up the missing amount. No code has been registered then and again none of these 2 were present before I left the car for the full service.

Advices are welcome.
 

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It's not timed right. The camshaft position has no relation to the camshaft pulley position. Get it retimed by someone. Also, the oil level in the car is only right when it's cold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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If I understand correctly, someone could have replaced the timing belt previously and if when they did this, they removed the cam shafts, then upon re-installation they did not have the cam marks aligned correctly (but still installed them so the timing was correct), then if the mechanic did not verify that the marks were correct before removal of the timing belt, then when he installed the new belt and realigned the marks, the car could actually be out of time even if the marks are correct.

Just a guess.
 

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If I understand correctly, someone could have replaced the timing belt previously and if when they did this, they removed the cam shafts, then upon re-installation they did not have the cam marks aligned correctly (but still installed them so the timing was correct), then if the mechanic did not verify that the marks were correct before removal of the timing belt, then when he installed the new belt and realigned the marks, the car could actually be out of time even if the marks are correct.

Just a guess.
Yep. Cam pulley has no relation to the camshaft and if you remove them and put them back offset the timing an be right but it's not correlated to the cam marks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the useful info and it matches what my mechanic said to me in the second sentence when I mentioned the error codes.
He suspects that the f*** idiot who removed the belt previously also removed cam shafts and did not place it back correctly.
Now the question is, can someone point us to the right direction how the set the cam shafts back to the original position. Are there any marks?
Appreciate all help on this!
 

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The cams will need to be locked with the special tool & both intake & exhaust CVVT hubs will need to be set correctly. I suspect your mechanic did not unload the CVVT hubs correctly prior to removing the belt. If the previous mechanic had done it incorrectly, it would have already had the fault.
 

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The cams will need to be locked with the special tool & both intake & exhaust CVVT hubs will need to be set correctly. I suspect your mechanic did not unload the CVVT hubs correctly prior to removing the belt. If the previous mechanic had done it incorrectly, it would have already had the fault.
Yep. Doesn't matter how the cam sprockets go back on as long as the camshafts themselves are locked in position. Now most people paint a mark where the new timing mark is... But still your mechanic messed up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks!
And also thanks to my friend at the local dealership, finally I've received the proper overhaul doc (Volvo VVT and belt) available from the link below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/amu37eh7wrrtz5w/Volvo VVT and belt.pdf?dl=0
Hopefully, the mechanic will be able to sort this out next week.

Meantime, please feel free to add comments and suggestions as I want this to be done properly.
Again, Appreciate all help on this matter!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
All,

Service completed today. Everything is set back according to the overhaul doc received from the local dealership. The Mechanic said, it was all over the place. As he suspected already, someone (before him) had already worked on the area before and misplaced the parts during re-assembling. I don't have a single reason not to trust him and what he was saying about the timing. I'll leave both docs in my dropbox in case if someone runs into the same issue. (the second one applies to the R)
Same time he also replaced a pulley on the aux belt line as the bearing was already noisy, plus the fuel filter. The fuel filter was full with dirt, so it seems, this was the very first time that it was replaced.
 

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Those codes only come on when the engine of out of time. You DIDN'T have those faults before the timing belt replacement. Tech noted he thought engine was timed wrong and decided to ADJUST it. Now you have timing faults. He doesn't know what he's doing. There is no "misplacing parts" during a timing belt replacement. He's making that up. I've been a Tech for 24 years, worked exclusively on Volvos for 17 years. He doesn't know WTF he's doing. Timing doesn't go "All over the place". It's IN or OUT. Hopefully you got it fixed and there was no damage to your engine which can happen if someone installs the timing belt incorrectly. You can have up to 6 1/2 degrees of camshaft adaption but over that it will toss those codes as 7 1/2 degrees is one cam tooth. Good for that Tech pistons didn't hit valves but seems he would have tried to blame it on you or the person who put the belt on correctly before.
 

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Those codes only come on when the engine of out of time. You DIDN'T have those faults before the timing belt replacement. Tech noted he thought engine was timed wrong and decided to ADJUST it. Now you have timing faults. He doesn't know what he's doing. There is no "misplacing parts" during a timing belt replacement. He's making that up. I've been a Tech for 24 years, worked exclusively on Volvos for 17 years. He doesn't know WTF he's doing. Timing doesn't go "All over the place". It's IN or OUT. Hopefully you got it fixed and there was no damage to your engine which can happen if someone installs the timing belt incorrectly. You can have up to 6 1/2 degrees of camshaft adaption but over that it will toss those codes as 7 1/2 degrees is one cam tooth. Good for that Tech pistons didn't hit valves but seems he would have tried to blame it on you or the person who put the belt on correctly before.
:thumbup: Your mechanic is full of it. He should just take responsibility for the mistake and move on.
 

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If he had verified the timing marks lining up in the first place, he'd have identified at that time that they were incorrect and have been able to create his own timing marks for the purpose of completing the job successfully the first time. Oh well...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Those codes only come on when the engine of out of time. You DIDN'T have those faults before the timing belt replacement. Tech noted he thought engine was timed wrong and decided to ADJUST it. Now you have timing faults. He doesn't know what he's doing. There is no "misplacing parts" during a timing belt replacement. He's making that up. I've been a Tech for 24 years, worked exclusively on Volvos for 17 years. He doesn't know WTF he's doing. Timing doesn't go "All over the place". It's IN or OUT. Hopefully you got it fixed and there was no damage to your engine which can happen if someone installs the timing belt incorrectly. You can have up to 6 1/2 degrees of camshaft adaption but over that it will toss those codes as 7 1/2 degrees is one cam tooth. Good for that Tech pistons didn't hit valves but seems he would have tried to blame it on you or the person who put the belt on correctly before.
Ok, I'd like to give some background here. I bought this car back in May 2015 via private sale, with 75495k miles on the clock. Before that, I knew there were only a handful of these brought into Ireland - 14 in total to be precise. (in the past 10 years, I saw 1 P1 V70R and 2 P2 V70R on the road including my one!) So, after a test drive I took my chances even the car had no full dealer stamped service history. The last 3 services were completed by a general ( not specialised for Volvo) private garage at the other side of the country. So, who knows what they did and how.

In general: the overall quality of work in these type of garages are, khmmm far-far from ideal/perfect. Same story with the dealers here. So better avoid them at all costs unless you have no other choices.
Also people here don't give a f*** about their cars at all. Just to give an idea what's going on in this country: no regular oil change, filters - forget them. 4 different tyres on cars ( here is not mandatory to have at least 2 exact same type tyre on each axle), tracking and balance off, steering wheel off by 30-50 degrees. Trust me, a good portion of cars passing through the National Car Testing are lethal on the road and now imagine the ones are does not pass....
To repair something properly, ex gearbox, gearbox valves, engine etc, forget it. Only change/replace type of service for a steep price & bad quality work and the list never ends.
No wonder when something goes south, then most of the cars are handed over to the scrapyard...
So in a nutshell: to find a good and reliable mechanic in this country is a real challenge.

Back to my car and the timing issue. Maybe you're right, my mechanic made made a mistake. But it is also a possibility that the setting was not according to the proper factory one before he took of the previous belt and adjusted the camshafts according to the factory markings. I wasn't standing next to him when he took off the belt + set the timing at the first time and neither when he corrected it yesterday. So my information is a second hand one.
As said above once, there is already a long list, in terms of previous incorrect services completed (or never been done) so won't be surprised if this was one of those too.

To be completely honest, I was expecting some challenges when I bought the car, but not this many. Sometimes, I'm thinking about to get rid of it and buy something cheap to run, but first of all the VR was my dream car plus it is unbelievable rare in this country (and same story in most of the European countries except the UK and Sweden). in Sep, I've been in Norway for 2 weeks and spotted only 1 S60R during the 5600km trip I made across this country. Then I realised, getting rid of my VR maybe is not the best idea ever.....
 

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If the car wasn't throwing a cam code beforehand it was timed right. Mechanic is dodging the blame. Glad it's fixed though. It takes an ME7 car very little time to determine if it is timed right... ME7 is pretty darn smart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
You should be able to confirm the timing with the CVVT test within VIDA also
https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/2004r/R5CVVT.pdf
Thanks!
Completed the test in VIDA and both camshaft actuals are varies between 0.00 and 0.05 compared to the nominal one. My understanding is, that these actuals are within the deviation range, according to the tech update linked above.
Obviously, DTC codes are gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Cleared already and nothing else comes back besides the air quality sensor and the siren module.
 
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