[Ultrarunner511]

Ok, you're not the bad guy. But neither is the salesman. Both of you were acting in your best interest. I wouldn't expect him to tell you where the car is and I wouldn't expect you to be loyal over a couple phone calls and a bad offer. But then again, I don't see the point in asking a salesman to locate a car with specific options when you can do it yourself - we all have the same internet. If you said "I only want to pay $XYZ over sticker for your troubles" before he found you the car, and he wouldn't budge on a markup several times that much, I totally agree with going behind his back.

I wouldn't go that far lol. I'm difficult some of the time. But integrity doesn't necessarily mean nice or pleasant haha. All good though. I have now met one legitimate decent, honest salesman with the purchase of my former 2020, and the replacement with a 2021. Pretty much set the standard in my eyes.

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[MyVolvoS60]

...or maybe they don't like their chances.

Honda, Toyota, etc are major players in the U.S. Market. Both of these manufacturers, among others, faced class action lawsuits. Lawyers love numbers. Say you have 1 million customers affected with a $5000 repair. That puts the claim at 5 billion dollars. Lawyers get a nice hefty 1/3rd on fees so that's a nice payday.

Now lets say 10,000 Volvos are affected with a $5,000 repair bill. That's 50 Million. Lawyers get 1/3rd attorney fees.

Simple math pretty much shows Honda / Toyota being major players results in a huge payout. Volvo is a minor player, and the payout far less.

Attorneys chase the money trail and don't often take on these class action cases because "they're nice guys" looking to help out.

 

[Dyno]

You're right. 1/3 of 50 million is chump change. Heck, I wouldn't even get off my couch for that much.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

You're right. 1/3 of 50 million is chump change. Heck, I wouldn't even get off my couch for that much.

To huge law firms that chase these class action lawsuits, I imagine 16.6 million is chump change. Especially, when you can ride the coat tails of a MAJOR class action and get 100s of millions or Billions in fees.

If you've ever had to sue anyone, or been involved in a car accident and dickered with insurance companies, legal crap can takes years and years. It's not an overnight process. If you ever see those stupid ads for class action lawsuits, they are never some mom and pop law firm, instead being some conglomerate with dozens of attorneys.

These dozens of staff / partners that have to be paid in fighting these cases in the ensuring years. So 16.6 Million doesn't go a long way. But 100s of millions or billions do. Especially, when winning isn't a slam dunk. So a Law Firm could be involved in litigation for years and come out losing. Why take that chance on "Chump Change"?

So to dedicate years and years of manpower and resources for $16.6 million is a drop in the bucket, when you can take on MAJOR cases where the potential payout is 10 or 100 times that amount.

Attorneys chase the money trail....

 

[Wayne T5]

That's right, it needs to be on the level of Honda's Oil Dilution Class Action that affected Civics and CRVs from 2017 and 2018 - roughly one million cars, to attract a lawyer's attention.

Question - For those of you who have gotten partial goodwill for your Drive E issues does Volvo have you sign something?

I would imagine Volvo did a good enough job giving full or partial goodwill for repairs outside of the CPO covered cars.

 

[Dyno]

Saul would do it.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

Saul would do it.
View attachment 135164

And then we migrate back to the real world, where it's unlikely a small law firm has the capabilities of handling a sizeable class action. Financially, a small firm with few attorneys is unlikely to be able to dedicate their undivided attention to a massive lawsuit. They've got staff to pay, bills, and families to feed, too.

Sure the payday is great, but if and only if you win.

Which is why huge law firms with laundry lists of attorneys are the ones usually handling these things. So unless the money is worth their time, effort, and risk, they take a hard pass. Volvo is a small fish in the American Market. $16 million, while a huge windfall for 99.9% of working class America, doesn't go far if there are 10 attorneys, 3 Paralegals, and expenses to be paid while handling the case.

Again, this is why unless the payday is HUGE, the little guys like us get ignored. Attorneys are not often known for their Altruistic Nature of handling such cases "Out of the Goodness Of Their Heart".

 

[Dyno]

...or maybe they don't feel they have a case.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

That's right, it needs to be on the level of Honda's Oil Dilution Class Action that affected Civics and CRVs from 2017 and 2018 - roughly one million cars, to attract a lawyer's attention.

Question - For those of you who have gotten partial goodwill for your Drive E issues does Volvo have you sign something?

I would imagine Volvo did a good enough job giving full or partial goodwill for repairs outside of the CPO covered cars.

It's hard to say. Some of us (@meade18, @MyVolvoS60, @Stampermann, etc) got our issues covered under the CPO / Warranty. Unfortunately, @Stampermann was on the receiving end of Volvo's "Decreased Good Will Campaign".

His car had the piston / rings done at 77,000 miles. And all his services but one were done by the same dealer. The one service (oil change) he completed himself when the dealer couldn't work him in during the height of Covid. At 101,300 miles @Stampermann's engine suffered a catastrophic failure. A mere 24,000 miles after the rings were replaced.

Volvo's offer was 2/3rds good Will ($8000) and 1/3rd @Stampermann's cost ($4000). Being that the vehicle was "worthless" without a functioning engine, @Stampermann did what he had to do after Volvo was inflexible. He paid to have the engine replaced. Then decided Volvo was no longer for him and sold the car for $16k in our currently hot market.

Had Volvo stepped up fully, it's safe to say @Stampermann would have remained with the brand, being a multi Volvo family, that always dealer serviced.

The Point here is that Volvo seems to have hit good will fatigue. No idea if some Non Disclosure or Acceptance not to pursue legal action had to be signed.

Either way, some of us were lucky. Those that aren't, are probably a smaller number. As These cars have been traded in, sold, and upgraded over the years. Meaning a lot of these issues will now appear on the 2nd hand market. With Original Owners dwindling as time presses on.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

...or maybe they don't feel they have a case.

Volvo has admitted fault with a Technical Journal detailing the exact cause of the failures (faulty piston rings)....Pretty sure they have a case, but not one worth spending years pursuing for Legal Pennies.

 

[Dyno]

"Your honor, these rings are FAULTY!"
"Oh. Do they all fail?"
"No your honor, only a small percentage"
"I see. And the manufacturer failed to honor the warranty when they did fail?"
"No, your honor. Warranty obligations were invariably fulfilled."
"Oh, but the "little guy" was left hanging as soon as he was one mile out of warranty?"
"No your honor, in many or most cases, some measure of good will was extended despite no legal obligation to do so"
"So what's your claim?"
"These rings are FAULTY!"

 

[MyVolvoS60]

"Your honor, these rings are FAULTY!"
"Oh. Do they all fail?"
"No your honor, only a small percentage"
"I see. And the manufacturer failed to honor the warranty when they did fail?"
"No, your honor. Warranty obligations were invariably fulfilled."
"Oh, but the "little guy" was left hanging as soon as he was one mile out of warranty?"
"No your honor, in many or most cases, some measure of good will was extended despite no legal obligation to do so"
"So what's your claim?"
"These rings are FAULTY!"

Like Toyota, Honda, etc, and has already been explained to you, most of these class action cases are retroactive. Consumers paid for repairs on a manufacturer defect. Years later they get compensated.

Volvo has replaced the rings under warranty. That's never been an issue.

Volvo has offered good will (partial / full) to some owners on rings and engines.

Like most of these lawsuits, the issue becomes not everyone was compensated or had the issue addressed. As Volvo, like Honda, and Toyota, put out a flawed product. Instead of issuing a recall, Volvo has left their decision to assist to a case by case basis.

Some owners get full help (rare now). Some owners get SOME HELP (partial). Some get none.

Volvo admits to the design flaw, but has put the onus on the customer. But the payday for some high profile law firm to handle Volvo isn't there. Leaving the consumer (little guy) to fight this one out on their own.

 

[Dyno]

When does a manufacturer's obligation end?

I'd really like to know because my Windows 95 machine just crashed and I'm about to call Bill Gates.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

When does a manufacturer's obligation end?

I'd really like to know because my Windows 95 machine just crashed and I'm about to call Bill Gates.

Considering many of these lawsuits are settled 5-10 years down the road... I guess that's for the lawyers and courts to figure out....But the courts disagree with your sarcasm.

Again, the issue is that Volvo isn't a Huge Brand. There's clearly fault, but Lawyers don't see the same pay day as Honda, Toyota, Etc.

Honda (under Acura Brand) - Cars going back as far as 2009 and settling lawsuit in 2020

.Report: Honda Settles in Oil Consumption Case

Here's Another Honda Case.

Honda Accord Oil Consumption Lawsuit

About this Case

Plaintiffs allege that 2008 - 2010 Honda Accords contain a common manufacturing defect that causes the engine to burn excessive amounts of oil. The defect may be present in the guide valve seals or piston rings or the VTEC variable engine-timing system.

Case Status

This case was filed in 2013. The parties reached an agreement to settle the case in 2014, and final approval was given to that settlement the same year. As a result of the settlement, class members were reimbursed out-of-pocket expenses incurred to fix the engine misfiring defect. Checks have been mailed to eligible class members. Class members also received a 3-year extension on the Powertrain Warranty related to the engine misfiring defect.

 

[Dyno]

Interesting.

But I'd still like to know when a manufacturer's obligation ends. Your comments speak more about how long it takes for court cases to be settled.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

Interesting.

But I'd still like to know when a manufacturer's obligation ends. Your comments speak more about how long it takes for court cases to be settled.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer. As a Layman, I would guess it would depend upon various state and federal laws handling the sale and warranty of goods.

We do have some lawyers on this forum. Maybe they would chime up with a specific legal answer.

 

[Dyno]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer.

After ALL THAT you don't have an opinion? Sheesh.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

After ALL THAT you don't have an opinion? Sheesh.

What's an opinion going to do? My guess is state and federal laws dictate the statute of limitations on these lawsuits. How soon the lawsuit needs filed and the length of time a manufacturers owes responsibility to a customer are legal questions.

I am not a lawyer. I can't answer those.....Feel free to chime in with a legal opinion @Dyno if you are indeed a lawyer.

 

[Tech]

When does a manufacturer's obligation end?

Probably around the same time he stops posting the same thing multiple times in every thread about this.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

Probably around the same time he stops posting the same thing multiple times in every thread about this.

Or when a new question is asked "When does Volvo's Responsibility End", and the topic of other manufacturers gets raised. Volvo isn't the only one who suffered the issue. Honda, Toyota, etc all faced similar issues.

Long story short, the older these cars get, the more we'll see tons of people coming here with threads...My P3 Burns Oil.