What they do doesn't need to influence what you do. That's my whole point. Be better.
Drive-E engine using a quart of oil every 1000 miles; I'm 2.5 hrs from the closest dealer
The title says it all really. In 2017, I bought a 15.5 V60 with 32k miles. When I lived in a big city that had several dealers, I had the dealer replace the spark plugs under warranty right away. Aside from the spark plugs and door latch recall, the car has been trouble-free. I have changed the oil using synthetic ACEA A5/B5 oil and genuine Volvo oil filters every 8k miles or so. The car only gets premium fuel. Everything has been done by the book. Now, at 85k miles, I am going through at least a quart of oil every 1000 miles.
I moved to a different state, work from home and don't log many miles now, but that may change next year. I can keep the oil filled up, but with this rate of consumption, it's only a matter of time before it fouls the catalytic converter.
How much good will, if any, could a 3-time Volvo owner such as myself expect from Volvo NA on this? How am I supposed to get them involved when the closest dealer is 2.5 hrs away. I don't have time to drive 5 hrs on a regular basis for the dealer to monitor my oil consumption. Would Volvo NA ever work with a 3rd party shop on something like this?
Has anyone had success reducing consumption by replacing the breather box (Volvo PN 31430923)?
Has anyone paid out of pocket for just new piston rings at an independent shop?
I moved to a different state, work from home and don't log many miles now, but that may change next year. I can keep the oil filled up, but with this rate of consumption, it's only a matter of time before it fouls the catalytic converter.
How much good will, if any, could a 3-time Volvo owner such as myself expect from Volvo NA on this? How am I supposed to get them involved when the closest dealer is 2.5 hrs away. I don't have time to drive 5 hrs on a regular basis for the dealer to monitor my oil consumption. Would Volvo NA ever work with a 3rd party shop on something like this?
Has anyone had success reducing consumption by replacing the breather box (Volvo PN 31430923)?
Has anyone paid out of pocket for just new piston rings at an independent shop?
41 - 60 of 104 Posts
I don't profess to speak for people with an issue that Volvo has never been forced to address.What they do doesn't need to influence what you do. That's my whole point. Be better.
Just because you have the mechanical prowess or financial capability to pay for something doesn't mean everybody else does.
If we want to take the moral and ethical High Ground, Volvo should have stepped up, issued a recall, and fixed the Rings on all these cars
I don't know why you keep harping on money or technical prowess. Those two things have nothing to do with integrity.
I do agree with you on that last part. I have a hard time believing this was unknown to Volvo engineers when the switch was made. Just the same as when Toyota/Lexus had similar issues with oil burners. Engineers aren't stupid. But executive decisions based on bizarre claims like "EPA standards" is a total contradiction in hindsight.I don't profess to speak for people with an issue that Volvo has never been forced to address.
Just because you have the mechanical prowess or financial capability to pay for something doesn't mean everybody else does.
If we want to take the moral and ethical High Ground, Volvo should have stepped up, issued a recall, and fixed the Rings on all these cars
The conspiracy theory side of me thinks that maybe this was the plan all along: a deliberate effort to force the move towards electrification. If engineers can intentionally make ICE vehicles have a shorter life, but squeak through the factory warranty, then the customer gets backed into a corner in making a choice: expensive repair on their own dime, or move "up" to the hybrid or battery.
However, I've now seen multiple XC40 recharge owners stranded on the side of the road in the past couple weeks. Coupled with the ongoing T8 nightmares, that theory didn't really work out lol.
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American Express, do you accept "Integrity" as a form of payment. You Don't? Well sh*t. guess some sacrifices are going to have to be made on feeding the family, rent, etc etc to come up with $5k.I don't know why you keep harping on money or technical prowess. Those two things have nothing to do with integrity.
Other manufacturers got class actioned on their consumption issues. Volvo did not, leaving Volvo to "selectively apply" their integrity on who and how much they wanted to help.
Again, I don't see Volvo stepping up to fix a known issue that plagued several years worth of their vehicles. Instead, Volvo has taken the "Let's Hope Most of these Cars FAIL OUTSIDE WARRANTY" and stick the owner with the expense. Which is now happening quite a bit, as these vehicles age out of their CPO's or long surpassed their factory warranty.
So yes, this has everything to do with Dollars and Cents. Volvo acted unethical but refusing to acknowledge the issue rose to the level these cars needed repaired. Instead, they're playing the numbers game.
How many of these cars would fail post Factory Warranty or 7 yr / 100k CPO. Thereafter, we can legally absolve ourselves of financial responsibility. Offering goodwill only if we see fit.
But the fact "Not Every 2012, 13, 13, 15, 15.5, 16" will be oil burners is Volvo's excuse to ignore the problem. They know of the issue, and even released a technical journal. Volvo is playing the numbers game instead of the Ethics game. If we sold 500,000 Drive-E affected cars in that timeframe, and only 75,000 come back under warranty, we've saved ourselves 425,000 cars. If after 50k (Factory warranty) or 100,000 miles (CPO) these cars develop a problem, not our concern. We made it past the financial responsibility and now it's the consumers issue to deal with.I do agree with you on that last part. I have a hard time believing this was unknown to Volvo engineers when the switch was made. Just the same as when Toyota/Lexus had similar issues with oil burners. Engineers aren't stupid. But executive decisions based on bizarre claims like "EPA standards" is a total contradiction in hindsight.
The conspiracy theory side of me thinks that maybe this was the plan all along: a deliberate effort to force the move towards electrification. If engineers can intentionally make ICE vehicles have a shorter life, but squeak through the factory warranty, then the customer gets backed into a corner in making a choice: expensive repair on their own dime, or move "up" to the hybrid or battery.
However, I've now seen multiple XC40 recharge owners stranded on the side of the road in the past couple weeks. Coupled with the ongoing T8 nightmares, that theory didn't really work out lol.
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Instead of issue a recall to fix the problem and be "Ethical" like @p.rico is suggesting aggrieved customers act
Well it’s always someone’s problem once a car becomes more expensive to repair than it’s worth… last time I was in that situation was when my 20 year old 240,000 all me from new mile Altima had a whole bunch of annoying things that needed attention… it was still legal/drivable, just didn’t have the appetite or budget for a whole bunch of repairs that would have still left me with a 20 year old car approaching a quarter million… took the $500 the dealer offered trading it in against my c70 because it saved me the hassle of dealing with people who buy cars for $1500 obo…
I'm talking about personal integrity, in response to catfish's posts, in light of the fact that corporations are out to look for their bottom line. This isn't about your crusade to make Volvo fix every 2015.5 engine out of pocket.American Express, do you accept "Integrity" as a form of payment. You Don't? Well sh*t. guess some sacrifices are going to have to be made on feeding the family, rent, etc etc to come up with $5k.
Other manufacturers got class actioned on their consumption issues. Volvo did not, leaving Volvo to "selectively apply" their integrity on who and how much they wanted to help.
Again, I don't see Volvo stepping up to fix a known issue that plagued several years worth of their vehicles. Instead, Volvo has taken the "Let's Hope Most of these Cars FAIL OUTSIDE WARRANTY" and stick the owner with the expense. Which is now happening quite a bit, as these vehicles age out of their CPO's or long surpassed their factory warranty.
So yes, this has everything to do with Dollars and Cents. Volvo acted unethical but refusing to acknowledge the issue rose to the level these cars needed repaired. Instead, they're playing the numbers game.
How many of these cars would fail post Factory Warranty or 7 yr / 100k CPO. Thereafter, we can legally absolve ourselves of financial responsibility. Offering goodwill only if we see fit.
As far as your position on this. I hear you. We've heard you. Every. Time. This. Comes. Up. It doesn't need to be iterated on every time someone posts about this. I am not in here to argue with you about this, nor wish to continue with you on this path, it wasn't even the purpose of me posting.
Not to burst your bubble dude, but what the first salesman did is perfectly legitimate. He didn't tell you where the car was because he knew you would do exactly what you did if you knew where it was. A dealer that has to buy a car off another dealer to sell to you is always going to be more expensive than the dealer that has the car for sale. I'm actually surprised you don't realize this, but you are actually the jerk in this story. He worked with you for 8 months and he actually found you what you wanted and wanted to get paid for that work. In the end, you wasted his time. Is his time worth as much as he wanted to charge you? No. But it's your job to negotiate on that inflated number. Good for your wallet that you were able to go around the back of the guy that actually found the car you wanted, but don't act like you are pure as the driven snow in this story. You are clearly not.I worked with a salesman for 8 months to find my specific Santa Fe back in 2014/2015. The color combo I wanted was less popular. He called me one day to say he found one but wouldn't tell me where it was. He kept insisting I schedule with him to see it. He set the lowest price possible and wouldn't budge...and still wouldn't tell me where it was located. I took that as a clue.
You keep missing the point. You don't avoid the moral dilemma of offloading an oil-burning car onto an unsuspecting owner by selling the car to carmax vs.putting it on auto trader yourself. That car is still going to be sold to an unsuspecting person by carmax. The problem with our cars, and you pointed this out, is that the defect is essentially invisible. A pre purchase inspection won't show it. Without literally going onto this forum and reading through these threads or asking about the car, there is no way for the general car buying public to know about this problem.Let's be honest, very few consumers are going to have a "Moral Reckoning" on telling Carvana or CarMax the vehicle burns oil.
With all that said, to be fair - you are absolutely right that it is not the moral responsibility of an owner of a car in need of repair to keep that car forever just because it may be "wrong" to sell it to someone. I think after a car is 7-8 years old and has 100k miles on it, whoever is buying it should be willing to accept the fact they might be buying a car that might have a catastrophic failure at any time. Part of my moral conundrum when I had to decide if I wanted to unload my oil burner was that it was only 3 years old. And I don't think anyone should expect a 3 year old car to have failing engine internals that would require a $5,000+ repair.
In the end, we agree. The moral culpability here lies with Volvo. They engineered, manufactured, and sold a product with such a high defect rate that they literally redesigned it only 2 years later. I don't think they knew what they were doing at the time. But I think, because of the specific failure involved, it should be their duty to repair these engines for all the people in the used market that are getting screwed now and for the next few years. I don't like most people in the civil litigation field and I think class action attorneys are some of the worst actors in it. But this is one of those rare cases where I think their services are needed. Until that happens, I'm going to be really sad every time a new one of these threads is posted.
We're talking intregrity though. Volvo isn't stepping up with integrity. So the consumer left holding the bag should have more intregrity? That's my whole argument.I'm talking about personal integrity, in response to catfish's posts, in light of the fact that corporations are out to look for their bottom line. This isn't about your crusade to make Volvo fix every 2015.5 engine out of pocket.
As far as your position on this. I hear you. We've heard you. Every. Time. This. Comes. Up. It doesn't need to be iterated on every time someone posts about this. I am not in here to argue with you about this, nor wish to continue with you on this path, it wasn't even the purpose of me posting.
View attachment 135099
If someone lies about consumption issue on private sale, or offloads it to Carvana or Carmax feigning ignorance, life isn't always fair. Caveat Emptor.
Lol thanks for the kind words. I could have mentioned that he lied about having mutual friends in my work place on the first phone call I had with him (found out later). Surprise surprise, a lying car salesman. Small or large... a fib isn't a good start no matter how you tell it.Not to burst your bubble dude, but what the first salesman did is perfectly legitimate. He didn't tell you where the car was because he knew you would do exactly what you did if you knew where it was. A dealer that has to buy a car off another dealer to sell to you is always going to be more expensive than the dealer that has the car for sale. I'm actually surprised you don't realize this, but you are actually the jerk in this story. He worked with you for 8 months and he actually found you what you wanted and wanted to get paid for that work. In the end, you wasted his time. Is his time worth as much as he wanted to charge you? No. But it's your job to negotiate on that inflated number. Good for your wallet that you were able to go around the back of the guy that actually found the car you wanted, but don't act like you are pure as the driven snow in this story. You are clearly not.
You keep missing the point. You don't avoid the moral dilemma of offloading an oil-burning car onto an unsuspecting owner by selling the car to carmax vs.putting it on auto trader yourself. That car is still going to be sold to an unsuspecting person by carmax. The problem with our cars, and you pointed this out, is that the defect is essentially invisible. A pre purchase inspection won't show it. Without literally going onto this forum and reading through these threads or asking about the car, there is no way for the general car buying public to know about this problem.
With all that said, to be fair - you are absolutely right that it is not the moral responsibility of an owner of a car in need of repair to keep that car forever just because it may be "wrong" to sell it to someone. I think after a car is 7-8 years old and has 100k miles on it, whoever is buying it should be willing to accept the fact they might be buying a car that might have a catastrophic failure at any time. Part of my moral conundrum when I had to decide if I wanted to unload my oil burner was that it was only 3 years old. And I don't think anyone should expect a 3 year old car to have failing engine internals that would require a $5,000+ repair.
In the end, we agree. The moral culpability here lies with Volvo. They engineered, manufactured, and sold a product with such a high defect rate that they literally redesigned it only 2 years later. I don't think they knew what they were doing at the time. But I think, because of the specific failure involved, it should be their duty to repair these engines for all the people in the used market that are getting screwed now and for the next few years. I don't like most people in the civil litigation field and I think class action attorneys are some of the worst actors in it. But this is one of those rare cases where I think their services are needed. Until that happens, I'm going to be really sad every time a new one of these threads is posted.
And "worked with" translated into 4 or 5 phone calls in that time. The waste of time went both ways, especially with a bottom line price that didn't budge in his eyes. His lack of attention to detail when calling me the day after I already purchased the car showed that I was a dollar sign. Nothing else. His answer was my silence... since that can't be misquoted.
But some details I didn't think I needed to share after already hijacking the thread.
Not sure how much time you've spent in a dealer. Outside of working at multiple dealers, I've had "Volvo's idea of luxury" having spent embarrassing amounts of time at the dealer show rooms while waiting for whatever issue to be addressed on any 3 of our SPA's. Listening to the salesmen calling their leads is all he was doing. He didn't lose any sleep over spending a total of 20 minutes on the phone with me through 8 months.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but a dealer trading one car with another dealer does not cost much money. Especially in a high volume manufacturer like Hyundai.
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Volvo is a corporation designed to make money selling a product and to lose as little money as possible in the process. Corporations do not make moral considerations. They only do "the right thing" if it is deemed to be financially advantageous either by avoiding lawsuits or by avoiding bad publicity. No one should be surprised that they have chosen not to take the good-faith measure of repairing a product that clearly has a material defect. I'd love for some legal team to step up and force their hand with a class-action lawsuit, but if that were going to happen, it would have already been done.
I drove a couple other options this weekend (lightly used GLC300, CX-5, and CX-9) in case I sell and buy something else. The idea is that we buy a new car for the wife, sell the Volvo, and keep her Civic around in case I need to drive somewhere while she's at work.
The Mercedes had no redeeming qualities to me. It didn't ride all that smoothly and it handles like a boat. The seats were all slippery and the widely spaced bolsters did not hold me in place at all. The infotainment was slow and clunky even compared to my older V60.
The Mazdas were really impressive, but my wife thought the CX-9 was too big and I think the CX-5 is too small, so no agreement there. Too bad they don't make a CX-7 anymore. The Mazdas handle really well for what they are. We need to go find a lightly used X3 and a well-optioned Forester to drive before we make a final decision, but so far, driving the competition has made me appreciate my V60 a bit more. I'd love to go SPA XC60, but with no dealer around, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea.
I drove a couple other options this weekend (lightly used GLC300, CX-5, and CX-9) in case I sell and buy something else. The idea is that we buy a new car for the wife, sell the Volvo, and keep her Civic around in case I need to drive somewhere while she's at work.
The Mercedes had no redeeming qualities to me. It didn't ride all that smoothly and it handles like a boat. The seats were all slippery and the widely spaced bolsters did not hold me in place at all. The infotainment was slow and clunky even compared to my older V60.
The Mazdas were really impressive, but my wife thought the CX-9 was too big and I think the CX-5 is too small, so no agreement there. Too bad they don't make a CX-7 anymore. The Mazdas handle really well for what they are. We need to go find a lightly used X3 and a well-optioned Forester to drive before we make a final decision, but so far, driving the competition has made me appreciate my V60 a bit more. I'd love to go SPA XC60, but with no dealer around, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea.
I had a Mazda 6 rental car a year or two ago and I was quite impressed by the comfortable seating and handling of the vehicle. Interior also felt rather plush and less plastic. Not sure the long term reliability or safety, but first impressions were strikingThe Mazdas were really impressive, but my wife thought the CX-9 was too big and I think the CX-5 is too small, so no agreement there. Too bad they don't make a CX-7 anymore. The Mazdas handle really well for what they are. We need to go find a lightly used X3 and a well-optioned Forester to drive before we make a final decision, but so far, driving the competition has made me appreciate my V60 a bit more. I'd love to go SPA XC60, but with no dealer around, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea.
I'm in a bit of a similar boat. Closest dealer is 70 miles with the preferred being about 80 miles away. I try to incorporate my service visits or warranty work with passing through the area. I schedule a loaner in advance. Dealer is very flexible with their loaners, too. They know a lot of the time, I need to drop off my car, then get back on the road. Their loaner car will be returned with an extra 300 miles, while my vehicle sits around waiting to be worked upon. Their car will get dropped off after hours and the key goes into the box. We've got this worked out to a science.
I've brought my dealer all services 10-90k, brakes, wipers, warranty piston job, ecm / thermostat, and a bunch of other warranty work. I do an alignment every 10K. So all and all I try to be very loyal. When mishaps occur, and I've had a few occasions where I couldn't make it back to return their loaner, they understand.
Not everyone has this relationship with their dealer, but it helps.
Best thing I can say is find a brand where you are happy. Whether you keep the Volvo and get it fixed, or find greener pastures.
Ok, you're not the bad guy. But neither is the salesman. Both of you were acting in your best interest. I wouldn't expect him to tell you where the car is and I wouldn't expect you to be loyal over a couple phone calls and a bad offer. But then again, I don't see the point in asking a salesman to locate a car with specific options when you can do it yourself - we all have the same internet. If you said "I only want to pay $XYZ over sticker for your troubles" before he found you the car, and he wouldn't budge on a markup several times that much, I totally agree with going behind his back.And "worked with" translated into 4 or 5 phone calls in that time.
Not necessarily. Up until recently, people were getting goodwill help from Volvo, so there wasn't a claim to make against them. Plus, these things take time. More often than not, the people compensated in these sort of lawsuits aren't given the repair for free. They usually had the repair done years ago and get a check later for how much they paid.but if that were going to happen, it would have already been done.
Agreed. Volvo seems to have hit good will fatigue. Their offers of assistance are becoming more and more percentage-based versus full Goodwill.Not necessarily. Up until recently, people were getting goodwill help from Volvo, so there wasn't a claim to make against them. Plus, these things take time. More often than not, the people compensated in these sort of lawsuits aren't given the repair for free. They usually had the repair done years ago and get a check later for how much they paid.
Unfortunately, I don't see lawyers going after Volvo because they are not a major player in the American market and so ownership numbers are quite Limited. Lawyers want big paydays. Because let's face it the major winners of any class-action are the attorneys who take 30% of a settlement.
You should try the new Ford Escape, the 2.0L turbo and the C2 chassis work well together. Very car like handling, good to thrash on a back road. Nice-ish interior, bigger than a CX5 on the inside.The Mazdas were really impressive, but my wife thought the CX-9 was too big and I think the CX-5 is too small, so no agreement there. Too bad they don't make a CX-7 anymore. The Mazdas handle really well for what they are. We need to go find a lightly used X3 and a well-optioned Forester to drive before we make a final decision, but so far, driving the competition has made me appreciate my V60 a bit more. I'd love to go SPA XC60, but with no dealer around, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea.
The Volvo has a smarter more responsive transmission and the torque difference is noticeable. But worth a test drive if you are shopping down a rung
What can I say? I'm a terrible person. ?♂ Which is probably why I live alone, haven't gotten a date since 2017, and just sit at home at 1am listening to Cigarette Daydream on an hour loop while reading people's arguments about ethics on the internet when I need to be up for work in 6 hours. All I can do is observe the world around me and make inferences based upon what I see.I'm talking about personal integrity, in response to catfish's posts, in light of the fact that corporations are out to look for their bottom line.
1. Car salesmen would eat their own children to get a sale. There hasn't been one yet who's earned my trust. They make insulting offers on your trade and to you directly in my case. To a certain salesman I'll call "Bob", yes, I can afford a $50,000 2018 XC90 inscription when I routinely make $1000 in a weekend driving for rideshare, plus my day job and investment property income. No need to look down your nose at me and treat me like a child.
2. My Volvo has been a world's better car than my Toyota, so I'd rather my next vehicle be anything but a Toyota; for better or worse.
3. When you trade in a car, it will change hands at least 3 times, so every guy has to make a buck.
4. There are no deals right now to be had because there are no cars to buy. Supply and demand dictate that you'll be overpaying for anything you do manage to find.
5. Without as many cars to sell, dealers are struggling too, so they have to make higher profit per vehicle to stay alive.
6. Oil consumption isn't catastrophic failure, unless you fail to keep it topped up. Vanos pumps on BMWs, timing chains on GM 3.6 engines, head gaskets on Northstar engines, computer problems on Nissans and FCA products are far more debilitating. The list of failures that will actually keep the car from running goes on and on and on and on. A 5 quart jug of castrol is $20 on Amazon, so with a fill up every 330 miles (roughly) that's a little over $1 extra per fill up for the oil @1 quart every thousand miles. That is by FAR the cheapest failure of any mentioned above.
I've had a couple of CX-9's - great vehicles, a split between a smaller two row and the larger three row SUVs, but you're right, they're still a little large, at pretty much 200 inches in length, but they drive much shorter! I think I've owned just as many Mazda's as Volvo's at this point - love them.The Mazdas were really impressive, but my wife thought the CX-9 was too big and I think the CX-5 is too small, so no agreement there. Too bad they don't make a CX-7 anymore. The Mazdas handle really well for what they are. We need to go find a lightly used X3 and a well-optioned Forester to drive before we make a final decision, but so far, driving the competition has made me appreciate my V60 a bit more. I'd love to go SPA XC60, but with no dealer around, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea.
...or maybe they don't like their chances.Unfortunately, I don't see lawyers going after Volvo because they are not a major player in the American market and so ownership numbers are quite Limited.
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