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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey everyone. <br>i'll be having a custom downpipe made for my car. <br>what's the maximum power i can expect from this mod any clues? <br>and also how much more noise will i be getting in the car?<br>thanks <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: downpipe (Serdar-S60T5)

you wont gain any more maximum power.<p>the bigger DP allows the turbo exhaust to empty faster, thus able to spool faster, so you will gain a slight bit of HP during the transient.<p>the DP should not make your car louder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: downpipe (phuz)

so i guess i'll only be picking up some low end torque and mid curve HP then. do you think it'll improve my 0-60 ?<br>thanks...
 

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Re: downpipe (Serdar-S60T5)

maybe a little...nothing to brag about though <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: downpipe (Serdar-S60T5)

without a ecu remap it will be very small your gain, you need to make an upgrade in your car to see a good gain
 

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Re: downpipe (Serdar-S60T5)

Anything that lowers exhaust restriction will increase your HP, but not by nearly as much as getting an ECU upgrade in addition. Think about it, the cylinders "push" the exhaust out the manifold, thru the turbo, and out the cat/exhaust. If it takes less energy to push out the exhaust gasses (less restriction in the exhaust) then the engine loses less power (which is equivalent to gaining power).
 

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Re: downpipe (Warpedcow)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Warpedcow</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything that lowers exhaust restriction will increase your HP, but not by nearly as much as getting an ECU upgrade in addition. Think about it, the cylinders "push" the exhaust out the manifold, thru the turbo, and out the cat/exhaust. If it takes less energy to push out the exhaust gasses (less restriction in the exhaust) then the engine loses less power (which is equivalent to gaining power).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>grrr...it will only increase transient HP, not maximum HP.<p>btw, volvos60t5x, how did you manage to go from 250 at the crank to 278 at the wheels with just an ECU upgrade, dp, and exhuast for your "major" performance enhancements. thats quite a jump. how much boost psi?
 

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Re: downpipe (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">grrr...it will only increase transient HP, not maximum HP.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Why? That doesn't make sense to my (admittedly often feeble) mind. I'll try to explain a bit more. The cylinder makes power when gas+air blows up and expands, pushing the cylinder down. On the next cycle, the valve opens, and the cylinder has to push the exhaust out. Suppose that it takes X horsepower to push out the exhaust through the stock plumbing - I assume it will take X-A horsepower (for some measureable A) to push the exhaust out of a much freer-flowing aftermarket exhaust. So in the end, wouldn't you gain A HP from the exhaust upgrade? If I am wrong, please explain why (and I am fully ready to admit that I'm wrong, I just need to understand the flaw in my logic above). Thanks in advance.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>btw, volvos60t5x, how did you manage to go from 250 at the crank to 278 at the wheels with just an ECU upgrade, dp, and exhuast for your "major" performance enhancements. thats quite a jump. how much boost psi?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The T5 has more "overhead" than an R. The R only has .2 more L of displacement, and the T5 turbo is big enough to reach the boost levels of a stock R. Also, FWD is far more efficient than Haldex. If the R and the modded T5 both make 300HP at the crank, the T5 will probably have 10-15 more HP at the wheels.
 

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You shouldn't put a DP on your car without the proper ECM software. You might run your car on the lean side. And get engine troubles or worse.. a blown piston/valve.. <p>catback with standard ECM software is okey. But when you add a diffrent DP you need special software.
 

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Re: downpipe (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>the DP should not make your car louder.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Not exactly true. I installed the downpipe before my exhaust and it DID growl a bit more on start up. You can hear a bit more noise/power <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> than the stock pipe<br>Spool up is defintely quicker and a pipe is usually good for about 8 to 12 hp depending on the rest of your set up
 

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Re: downpipe (phuz)

well i didnt do any engine mods, just down pipe, catback, intake and ecy, the T5 engines is amazing and support a lot of power at the wheels with good clutch stage and also driver. <br>The boost psi i dont remember, the stock was 12 i think with just the ecu was 18 psi, with the dp and all the goodies i dont know yet. But the car pulls a lot and much better than R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
hey. actually i already have an ecu upgrade on my car. it's a superchip with 15psi. and i do have a cat replacement, too. do you still think i'll need my ecu re-done for the downpipe? maybe i'll try it with the current set up for now, and then try to get superchips to help me <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>volvos60t5x, as far as i know, the stock boost on a S60 T5 should be more like 10.5 psi ( 0.70 - 0.75 bars ) if you are boosting 18psi ( 1.25 bars ) now, then you probably picked up like 50 bhp with the upgraded boost from your chip only. which is nice and perfectly doable. because as far as i've seen, a healthy engine around 2.0 - 2.5 liters and a turbo, will pick up a good 10bhp with every added 0.10 bars of boost as long as you richen the fuel accordingly. and you have like 0.5 bars extra from stock. btw, that should probably be around the upper limits of a 16T turbo.<p>if you picked up more hp than that, your ecu upgrade must be a really good one... i agree with the intake + downpipe + exhaust and all your goodies you can have well over 300bhp i'm quite sure. maybe 310 - 320 if your car is in good shape?<p>if you're a manual and losing only around 15% over the drivetrain, that means you can put something like 270 - 275 to the wheels which is very close to what you quote. <p>nice work <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>
 

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Re: downpipe (Serdar-S60T5)

Is the downpipe from the S60 R compatible with the T5? Are there fitment issues? Would there even be a big enough difference to notice any gains?
 

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Re: downpipe (Warpedcow)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Warpedcow</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why? That doesn't make sense to my (admittedly often feeble) mind. I'll try to explain a bit more. The cylinder makes power when gas+air blows up and expands, pushing the cylinder down. On the next cycle, the valve opens, and the cylinder has to push the exhaust out. Suppose that it takes X horsepower to push out the exhaust through the stock plumbing - I assume it will take X-A horsepower (for some measureable A) to push the exhaust out of a much freer-flowing aftermarket exhaust. So in the end, wouldn't you gain A HP from the exhaust upgrade? If I am wrong, please explain why (and I am fully ready to admit that I'm wrong, I just need to understand the flaw in my logic above). Thanks in advance.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>While your reasoning isn't off-based, but if you were to use the downpipe as your ONLY variable in an experiment, you would most likely see NO gain in your top-end HP. <p>Let's see if I can try to explain this in better detail. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>You have your exisiting setup of exhaust pipe, which through a distance, creates a pressure drop, aka back-pressure on the turbo. this back pressure is what keeps the turbo from spooling at the rate it does. when you add a bigger downpipe (ie. more diameter), you are increasing the volume in the pipe IMMEDIATELLY after the turbo, therefore it is able to unload its exhaust at a faster rate, (ie, turbine spinning faster), and therefore the compressor spins faster making boost sooner. You will see an improvement through the RPM range, but as it gets close to the upper end, that increase tapers off back to the stock curve because the turbo has already spooled to its controlled PSI and the added volume from the downpipe is full again with backpressure.<p>NOW...with that said, if you ran a larger exhaust the ENTIRE way back, you would have a lower backpressure throughout the whole RPM range, and therefore gain a few HP in the upper end...and this is because your overall backpressure has been reduced, NOT just during the spooling stage. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>let me know if this clarifies anything <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: downpipe (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>You have your exisiting setup of exhaust pipe, which through a distance, creates a pressure drop, aka back-pressure on the turbo. this back pressure is what keeps the turbo from spooling at the rate it does. when you add a bigger downpipe (ie. more diameter), you are increasing the volume in the pipe IMMEDIATELLY after the turbo, therefore it is able to unload its exhaust at a faster rate, (ie, turbine spinning faster), and therefore the compressor spins faster making boost sooner. You will see an improvement through the RPM range, but as it gets close to the upper end, that increase tapers off back to the stock curve because the turbo has already spooled to its controlled PSI and the added volume from the downpipe is full again with backpressure.<p>NOW...with that said, if you ran a larger exhaust the ENTIRE way back, you would have a lower backpressure throughout the whole RPM range, and therefore gain a few HP in the upper end...and this is because your overall backpressure has been reduced, NOT just during the spooling stage. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>let me know if this clarifies anything <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes that makes sense. I was speaking of your latter scenario, where the entire turbo-back exhaust system became less restrictive.
 

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Re: downpipe (Warpedcow)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Warpedcow</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes that makes sense. I was speaking of your latter scenario, where the entire turbo-back exhaust system became less restrictive.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Does anyone know what the stock DP and exhaust diameter is on my 2005 T5? Please advise. Thanks in advance!
 

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Re: downpipe (darylkaiser30)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>darylkaiser30</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Does anyone know what the stock DP and exhaust diameter is on my 2005 T5? Please advise. Thanks in advance!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's what I was wondering as well. Also what the diameter of the S60 R d/p is. Any fitment differences?
 

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Re: downpipe (S60Driven)

well, i think the stock size is 2.5" OD. not sure though.<p>BTW, guys, i found an online friction loss calculator, and the variables I used were this...now they are not exactly what our cars dimensions are, but they are close and give you a rough idea.<p>I assume 12 feet of pipe, 400 degrees F, a flow rate of 200cfm, and the specific gravity and viscosity of air.<p>at 2.5" ID pipe, you have a 67psi loss through the pipe<br>at 3" ID pipe, you have a 25psi loss through the pipe.<p>hows that for some real world data! woohoo! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: downpipe (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, i think the stock size is 2.5" OD. not sure though.<br>BTW, guys, i found an online friction loss calculator, and the variables I used were this...now they are not exactly what our cars dimensions are, but they are close and give you a rough idea. I assume 12 feet of pipe, 400 degrees F, a flow rate of 200cfm, and the specific gravity and viscosity of air. at 2.5" ID pipe, you have a 67psi loss through the pipe, at 3" ID pipe, you have a 25psi loss through the pipe. how's that for some real world data! woohoo! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Excellent! A+ for phuz! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: downpipe (darylkaiser30)

thats my engineer mentality....i analyze crap like that <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>quite impressive how adding only 1/2" to a pipe can drastically reduce friction, huh? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 
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