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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Something just occurred to me. If you turn on ACC (say, 70mph) and have LKA turned on, won't it effectively function the same way that Pilot Assist functions (up to 30 mph anyway)?

ACC: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc.

LKA: keeps you in your lane.

Pilot Assist: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc, while also keeping you in your lane.

What am I missing?

(We won't have our car till early May, hence my question now.)
 

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Something just occurred to me. If you turn on ACC (say, 70mph) and have LKA turned on, won't it effectively function the same way that Pilot Assist functions (up to 30 mph anyway)?

ACC: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc.

LKA: keeps you in your lane.

Pilot Assist: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc, while also keeping you in your lane.

What am I missing?

(We won't have our car till early May, hence my question now.)
I'm glad you posted this, as I've been thinking the same thing. The only real difference I've noticed is the Pilot Assist (under 30) will do a much better job of steering for you (not that you are supposed to stop steering as the driver). Using ACC and LKA at highway speed will only nudge a bit and vibrate when you get to the lane marking.

My guess is the slower speed with Pilot Assist just allows the system to do a better job of assisting you with steering in between the lines. Otherwise, my experience with the vehicle says your question is valid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm glad you posted this, as I've been thinking the same thing. The only real difference I've noticed is the Pilot Assist (under 30) will do a much better job of steering for you (not that you are supposed to stop steering as the driver). Using ACC and LKA at highway speed will only nudge a bit and vibrate when you get to the lane marking.

My guess is the slower speed with Pilot Assist just allows the system to do a better job of assisting you with steering in between the lines. Otherwise, my experience with the vehicle says your question is valid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's sort of what I figured. I'm guessing that over 30mph, the same hardware/software suite is still utilized, but scaled back, with the result probably to "ping-pong" in the lane rather than truly follow and remain centered in the lane. Effectively, causing your car to drive drunk, then. :)
 

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Something just occurred to me. If you turn on ACC (say, 70mph) and have LKA turned on, won't it effectively function the same way that Pilot Assist functions (up to 30 mph anyway)?

ACC: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc.

LKA: keeps you in your lane.

Pilot Assist: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc, while also keeping you in your lane.

What am I missing?

(We won't have our car till early May, hence my question now.)
LKA assists your steering. When I tried this (no other cars were around me for miles), the vehicle was practically on the line then tugged it back toward the middle of the lane but by the time it was over the line on the other side of the vehicle, the angle was too sharp to nudge you back so the wheel vibrated and she crossed over the line. Moral to the story is LKA assists your steering input, it doesn't replace it. I'm now use to it and I really like it but.....

Pilot Assist on the other hand is absolutely awesome! Just wiggle the steering wheel every minute or two and she stays right in the center of the lane, no hands needed. I really hope they allow is to upgrade when the 2.0 becomes available. Given the choice of paying $1200 for P* or Pilot Assist 2.0, I'd pay for the latter. Don't tell them I said that though, I'm hoping it's a free update!
 

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I feel like they could tweak the braking just a bit with Pilot Assist. It seems to brake a bit more abruptly than I would.
 

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I've gotten use to ACC & Pilot Assist braking, my wife on the other hand only likes it when I have it set to 3 or more car lengths back for a smoother slow down.
 

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Ive gotten use to it, my wife on the other hand only likes it when I have it set to 3 or more car lengths back for a smoother slow down.
Good reminder about how the distance functions can differ in real life use between Pilot Assist and ACC. I use ACC more frequently than Pilot Assist, and almost always have distance set to 1 or 2 (at most), as otherwise it leaves gaps that encourage cars to cut in front on the highway. I probably keep the distance closer than necessary in some of the situations I use Pilot Assist just because it is what I am accustom to doing with ACC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You know, all this talk about ACC distance settings with respect to cars cutting you off, leaving gaps so large that cars cut you off, etc., is making me realize that -- yet again -- our stubborn "Americanism" when it comes to driving continues to do us more of a disservice than we realize. In this case, of course, I'm talking about our failure to abide by the pan-European standard of "left lanes for passing ONLY," otherwise known as, "move over if anybody is behind you," with the obvious corollary to "never move in front of someone moving faster than you." And for the love of all things sacred with driving, "never pass on the right!"

And it's not just passing / left lane rules. Speeds, too, are strictly obeyed. But in this case, I'm not even talking about the upper limits (or lack thereof in Germany, sometimes, on some stretches), I'm talking about the arguably more important lower bounds: one thing I've noticed when I drive in Europe (and I've driven all over, a lot) is that people go neither too slow nor too fast; they tend to maintain constant velocity, i.e., not varying their speed much, and in general, just do a much better job driving for the purpose of driving, i.e., of getting A to B. The act of driving is respected in a way that we simply don't do here in the States.

Don't worry, I'm not going to let this devolve into a discussion on the obvious, myriad exceptions to this rule, or why the European style is better than the American, etc.... so here's my point.

The point is, things like Pilot Assist and ACC would work infinitely better -- and our drives would be infinitely more pleasant -- if we drove the way people do in Germany and, frankly -- albeit to a less awesome degree -- the rest of Europe. Yes, even eastern Europe follows this basic driving convention.

I think one thing that we all forget is that many of the things we just accept blindly here often developed largely as a function of European driving convention, for instance, as alluded to in one of my other posts on the "oh no i saw a q7," the "überhaupte prestige" -- or however it's spelled -- that menacing front fascia of most german cars, is to really scream "out of my way!" if you're behind someone, and the knowledge that they WILL move over. The notion that, if someone is in front of you, and you flash your high beams once, they WILL jump out of your way. The notion that fog lights ARE FOR FOG and nothing else, and you will be ticketed for using them in pristine driving conditions (same for rear fogs which are curiously absent on most USDM cars (do the XC90 have them?). The ability for forward-looking cameras to read street speed limits (because strictly enforced, often by camera, in much of Europe). The fact that S Class autopilot explicitly does not let you pass on the right (in Europe anyway).

The point is, I strongly believe that many of the trends including and especially with respect to car tech (and, to a lesser degree, design and functionality) largely comes from laws and convention in Europe. Shame we can't exercise such things here. Would make driving infinitely more pleasant.

NB. If you haven't experienced driving in Europe, well, it's like this: imagine being a cop with your sirens on blasting down the freeway. See how the cars just instantly move out of the way? Yeah. It's like that. No exaggeration. In a word then, awesome. Less traffic bottlenecking, less road rage, less accidents (Germany, anyway). More awesome.
 

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You know, all this talk about ACC distance settings with respect to cars cutting you off, leaving gaps so large that cars cut you off, etc., is making me realize that -- yet again -- our stubborn "Americanism" when it comes to driving continues to do us more of a disservice than we realize. In this case, of course, I'm talking about our failure to abide by the pan-European standard of "left lanes for passing ONLY," otherwise known as, "move over if anybody is behind you," with the obvious corollary to "never move in front of someone moving faster than you." And for the love of all things sacred with driving, "never pass on the right!"

And it's not just passing / left lane rules. Speeds, too, are strictly obeyed. But in this case, I'm not even talking about the upper limits (or lack thereof in Germany, sometimes, on some stretches), I'm talking about the arguably more important lower bounds: one thing I've noticed when I drive in Europe (and I've driven all over, a lot) is that people go neither too slow nor too fast; they tend to maintain constant velocity, i.e., not varying their speed much, and in general, just do a much better job driving for the purpose of driving, i.e., of getting A to B. The act of driving is respected in a way that we simply don't do here in the States.

Don't worry, I'm not going to let this devolve into a discussion on the obvious, myriad exceptions to this rule, or why the European style is better than the American, etc.... so here's my point.

The point is, things like Pilot Assist and ACC would work infinitely better -- and our drives would be infinitely more pleasant -- if we drove the way people do in Germany and, frankly -- albeit to a less awesome degree -- the rest of Europe. Yes, even eastern Europe follows this basic driving convention.

I think one thing that we all forget is that many of the things we just accept blindly here often developed largely as a function of European driving convention, for instance, as alluded to in one of my other posts on the "oh no i saw a q7," the "überhaupte prestige" -- or however it's spelled -- that menacing front fascia of most german cars, is to really scream "out of my way!" if you're behind someone, and the knowledge that they WILL move over. The notion that, if someone is in front of you, and you flash your high beams once, they WILL jump out of your way. The notion that fog lights ARE FOR FOG and nothing else, and you will be ticketed for using them in pristine driving conditions (same for rear fogs which are curiously absent on most USDM cars (do the XC90 have them?). The ability for forward-looking cameras to read street speed limits (because strictly enforced, often by camera, in much of Europe). The fact that S Class autopilot explicitly does not let you pass on the right (in Europe anyway).

The point is, I strongly believe that many of the trends including and especially with respect to car tech (and, to a lesser degree, design and functionality) largely comes from laws and convention in Europe. Shame we can't exercise such things here. Would make driving infinitely more pleasant.

NB. If you haven't experienced driving in Europe, well, it's like this: imagine being a cop with your sirens on blasting down the freeway. See how the cars just instantly move out of the way? Yeah. It's like that. No exaggeration. In a word then, awesome. Less traffic bottlenecking, less road rage, less accidents (Germany, anyway). More awesome.
Agreed, Agreed and Agreed!
This "passing on the right" U.S. nonsense is just that and dangerous.
How did the lack of common sense driving rules and courtesy become the norm in the U.S.
A few well placed signs "passing only permitted on the left" would be a simple way to start.

Here from the U.K Highway Code: (substitute left for right) Note the only circumstance that allows for passing on the "inside" or non-overtaking lane would be in slow moving or congested urban conditions and NEVER on a free-flowing motorway.....
Rule 267

Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right. You should
•check your mirrors
•take time to judge the speeds correctly
•make sure that the lane you will be joining is sufficiently clear ahead and behind
•take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area to verify the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror
remember that traffic may be coming up behind you very quickly. Check all your mirrors carefully. Look out for motorcyclists. When it is safe to do so, signal in plenty of time, then move out
•ensure you do not cut in on the vehicle you have overtaken
•be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.

Rule 268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
 

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All well and good - but if slower traffic is too far left, the rules go out the window.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Agreed, Agreed and Agreed!
This "passing on the right" U.S. nonsense is just that and dangerous.
How did the lack of common sense driving rules and courtesy become the norm in the U.S.
A few well placed signs "passing only permitted on the left" would be a simple way to start.

Here from the U.K Highway Code: (substitute left for right)
Rule 267

Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right. You should
•check your mirrors
•take time to judge the speeds correctly
•make sure that the lane you will be joining is sufficiently clear ahead and behind
•take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area to verify the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror
remember that traffic may be coming up behind you very quickly. Check all your mirrors carefully. Look out for motorcyclists. When it is safe to do so, signal in plenty of time, then move out
•ensure you do not cut in on the vehicle you have overtaken
•be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.

Rule 268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Yup. What people fail to realize here is not only will this reduce traffic accidents, it will reduce traffic bottlenecks too. *sigh* I read that in Germany (and UK) it's SO strictly enforced, that if you're driving in the -- let's say the "slow" lane to avoid right/left confusion -- and there's a car ahead of you, but in the "passing" lane that hits its brakes, you STILL have to avoid passing it. Amazing. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
All well and good - but if slower traffic is too far left, the rules go out the window.
That's the point. It shouldn't be. Cops should strictly enforce. Would be such an easy thing to enforce, and such an easy source of revenue, frankly.

A big part of the problem is the language on our signs (at least in California) which say, stupidly, "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT." Which basically means nobody will obey, since nobody wants to feel like they're conceding that, yes indeed, they are going too slowly.

Rather, it should read something like "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY" or, better yet, "VEHICLES BEHIND YOU HAVE RIGHT OF WAY, MOVE RIGHT."
 

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All well and good - but if slower traffic is too far left, the rules go out the window.
See U.K Rule 268 (above).... The Europeans have that covered. Furthermore, Europeans have a better sense about NOT driving slowly in the passing lanes. Flashing lights behind you from another driver = get out of the way. It's innate.
 

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That's the point. It shouldn't be. Cops should strictly enforce. Would be such an easy thing to enforce, and such an easy source of revenue, frankly.

A big part of the problem is the language on our signs (at least in California) which say, stupidly, "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT." Which basically means nobody will obey, since nobody wants to feel like they're conceding that, yes indeed, they are going too slowly.

Rather, it should read something like "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY" or, better yet, "VEHICLES BEHIND YOU HAVE RIGHT OF WAY, MOVE RIGHT."
I fully understand - the problem lies in that the passing traffic is most likely speeding and the traffic in the way is not. The laws about lane choice don't make it clear that the speeding traffic still has the right of way, which I'm sure they don't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I fully understand - the problem lies in that the passing traffic is most likely speeding and the traffic in the way is not. The laws about lane choice don't make it clear that the speeding traffic still has the right of way, which I'm sure they don't.
Correct. And that's the problem. Faster traffic should always have the right of way; it's not up to the slower traffic to police or otherwise enforce it -- let them get a ticket if a cop sees them speeding. Put another way, just because they're breaking the law, doesn't mean the slower traffic should also break the law (that admittedly doesn't even exist yet).

I think this is why Europe is so fond of speed cameras. Wish we had them here too, with slightly increased (realistic) speed limits. Like, say, maxing out around 80mph or 90mph on long stretches of desolate highway, not 65 or 70 which are simply never enforced at all. (I'm looking at you highway 5 between SF and LA.)
 

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Correct. And that's the problem. Faster traffic should always have the right of way; it's not up to the slower traffic to police or otherwise enforce it -- let them get a ticket if a cop sees them speeding. Put another way, just because they're breaking the law, doesn't mean the slower traffic should also break the law (that admittedly doesn't even exist yet).

I think this is why Europe is so fond of speed cameras. Wish we had them here too, with slightly increased (realistic) speed limits. Like, say, maxing out around 80mph or 90mph on long stretches of desolate highway, not 65 or 70 which are simply never enforced at all. (I'm looking at you highway 5 between SF and LA.)
Another technique used all over Europe: when one enters a motorway via an on-ramp, the license plate is recorded and then again when that same car exits. The system then calculates that cars average speed speed between the two points. If the average speed equates to something over the limit then = potential for a ticket. This method totally eliminates the need for speed-cops or intermediate speed cameras. Agreed it would not work for ALL stretches of motorway but it's an equalizer for all drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Another technique used all over Europe: when one enters a motorway via an on-ramp, the license plate is recorded and then again when that same car exits. The system then calculates that cars average speed speed between the two points. If the average speed equates to something over the limit then = potential for a ticket. This method totally eliminates the need for speed-cops or intermediate speed cameras. Agreed it would not work for ALL stretches of motorway but it's an equalizer for all drivers.
Wow, I did not know that. Very clever, and logical! Again, why the heck don't we do this here??

I'm doubly lucky, then: when I was first driving in CH, I remember being very surprised, a few times, when I saw that oh-so-beautiful "derestricted speed zone" sign: http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/autobahn-2.jpg

I had thought only Germany had derestricted stretches of freeway. So naturally, I allowed myself to go a bit faster than the previous limit (I think it had been around 140km/h or so). It wasn't until after we had left CH that I learned there's an implied maximum speed of -- I think it's 140 -- and that in the absence of any sign, or where it's derestricted, you still cannot exceed that upper limit.

Fortunately, no tickets in Europe ever. (Though I do have an absurdly stupid almost-ticket story in Romania lol.)
 

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How did the lack of common sense driving rules and courtesy become the norm in the U.S.
You could pretty much leave out the word "driving" and ask the same question.
 

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Something just occurred to me. If you turn on ACC (say, 70mph) and have LKA turned on, won't it effectively function the same way that Pilot Assist functions (up to 30 mph anyway)?

ACC: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc.

LKA: keeps you in your lane.

Pilot Assist: maintains set speed, will brake for slower traffic, even to a stop, start accelerating again, etc, while also keeping you in your lane.

What am I missing?

(We won't have our car till early May, hence my question now.)
No car following steering,which is shut off at about 30 mph. As noted unaided lane keeping steering is too erratic.
 
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