Not sure where to post here but wanted to vent a bit. We got our 2017 T8 a couple months ago CPO after selling our model 3 to get third row and a car for trips. Screen has always been laggy and takes awhile to switch between reverse camera etc, just thought it was normal. As of yesterday the whole console went out, no AC no screen, just keeps rebooting, lines go across the screen like it’s booting, freeze, then turn off. So took it to the dealer today and they say there is clearly water damage from a spill into the unit. Nothing has been spilled and we’ve only had the car two months, so I ask to take a look and cannot see any sign of liquid anywhere, bone dry. They point to a small brownish spot on the tunnel the size of a quarter thats a bit dirty and say it looks like something sticky spilled, again bone dry can’t even scrape it. Nothing near the IHU and nothing damp, no drip marks, nothing. They are claiming we will have to go through insurance to get the unit replaced fully or pay out of pocket. the tech said he’s never even seen an issue with the IHU black Screening︎, is my BS meter just off or am I being strung up the flag pole here?
Dealer trying to blame dead IHU on us (CPO T8)
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Hi!
IHU is located inside of front console so it's quite hard for an owner to make a kind of water damage to the unit other than diving of a car into water.
Did the dealer's tech show some spot on the unit itself or just somewhere outside the center console? They would have to detach whole central tunnel to get IHU from the car.
At least they could connect the car to vida and scan for DTCs specific to IHU. Did they do it?
I attached some photos I took of the spot, I didn’t see anything on the unit or of any consequence. The brown spot on the tunnel was dry and seemed like it had been there forever, didn’t feel sticky or raised and was hard to see. They pointed to a small discolored area in the bottom of one screw and said it was likely left over residue, again have not cleaned or removed anything here. No mention of scanning the car. I have found it matches similarly with the service bulletin about rebooting, it just doesn’t ever make it past the screen with the dots going across the lines, then goes to black, sometimes the reverse camera works some times it doesn’t. No controls other than that.
Attachments
Hi!
Did you notice some brown traces on the bottom of your IHU? Is it similar to brown spot on the tunnel or a kind of dirt?
In fact there's no any PCBs "on a floor" of IHU to be affected by some liquid (if there was any), but there's a box with HDD screwed on bottom side.
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Did you notice some brown traces on the bottom of your IHU? Is it similar to brown spot on the tunnel or a kind of dirt?
In fact there's no any PCBs "on a floor" of IHU to be affected by some liquid (if there was any), but there's a box with HDD screwed on bottom side.
I saw what you pointed out in the picture, that’s really it, and I can’t tell anything about it, it’s all dry and there is no clear path or drips etc, just a little residue at one screw and the spot, everything looks pretty clean, no dirty cables or pooled liquid residue in a seem. As far as I’m aware they have not removed anything further than what is shown in the pictures, they stopped there and started saying they wouldn’t cover it ( we have warranty + Volvo’s extended. )
My opinion is if they claim the IHU to be damaged by liquid they have to get the IHU from the car and prove that liquid got inside the IHU as it will be visible on PCBs. Otherwise faulty unit should be covered by warranty.
If you use cup holders and put coffee there doesn’t mean that warranty shouldn’t work.
If you use cup holders and put coffee there doesn’t mean that warranty shouldn’t work.
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This one could be a little tricky.
First, if there was any way to replace it easily under warranty then they would do that without challenge. They get paid for that work after all, and asking customers to pay results in such a small increase that it wouldn't be worth the bad reputation. So I have to start with saying, they believe it is damage and not going to be covered under warranty. That part is likely not BS.
So the tricky part comes with WHEN it was damaged. If we also assume no one in your family (sometimes a spose can be a bit sheepish admitting a mistake or even genuinely forgetting the spill happened if at the time it caused no effect at the time), then it would be likely that the previous owner did the damage. But how do you prove that? If the problem is intermittent it could have gone unnoticed and then pop back up again.
A previous owner could have ad the same intermittent issues. Look at the carfax and see where it was serviced. Being under warranty it likely has a record somewhere if the previous owner knew about the problem... because they would have tried to get it fixed under warranty first too (no one ever assumes they damaged something). Was it the dealer you bought it from or did they get it from auction? It's too old to be off lease in most cases, so I'd say there is a decent chance it's either a local trade. However, if it's not a local trade that's a little concern.... not that auction cars are bad, but if it's too old to go through lease auction then the question is... why wasn't it sold by whoever did trade it in. They likely knew it had an issue and didn't want to pay for the repair. The servicing dealer for any previous repairs should be able to provide some details about what they saw. It wouldn't be their responsibility to fix it though, just the certifying dealer who missed it (unless they are one in the same).
At the end of the day, if you can verify that it was damaged before you bought it, then the certifying dealer is at least morally on the hook. They might have had no idea about it... but if they sold it with damage, that's on them and the certification covers them. But in two months, it's legally reasonable to think you or your family might have damaged it too. So that's where finding some sort of history of that screen being looked at would help.
First, if there was any way to replace it easily under warranty then they would do that without challenge. They get paid for that work after all, and asking customers to pay results in such a small increase that it wouldn't be worth the bad reputation. So I have to start with saying, they believe it is damage and not going to be covered under warranty. That part is likely not BS.
So the tricky part comes with WHEN it was damaged. If we also assume no one in your family (sometimes a spose can be a bit sheepish admitting a mistake or even genuinely forgetting the spill happened if at the time it caused no effect at the time), then it would be likely that the previous owner did the damage. But how do you prove that? If the problem is intermittent it could have gone unnoticed and then pop back up again.
A previous owner could have ad the same intermittent issues. Look at the carfax and see where it was serviced. Being under warranty it likely has a record somewhere if the previous owner knew about the problem... because they would have tried to get it fixed under warranty first too (no one ever assumes they damaged something). Was it the dealer you bought it from or did they get it from auction? It's too old to be off lease in most cases, so I'd say there is a decent chance it's either a local trade. However, if it's not a local trade that's a little concern.... not that auction cars are bad, but if it's too old to go through lease auction then the question is... why wasn't it sold by whoever did trade it in. They likely knew it had an issue and didn't want to pay for the repair. The servicing dealer for any previous repairs should be able to provide some details about what they saw. It wouldn't be their responsibility to fix it though, just the certifying dealer who missed it (unless they are one in the same).
At the end of the day, if you can verify that it was damaged before you bought it, then the certifying dealer is at least morally on the hook. They might have had no idea about it... but if they sold it with damage, that's on them and the certification covers them. But in two months, it's legally reasonable to think you or your family might have damaged it too. So that's where finding some sort of history of that screen being looked at would help.
We bought it from a different dealer out of state, i know it wasn’t an auction car but I don’t fully remember how they got it, fleet return maybe? I would have to look at the car fax again. Under service history I remember updates and reprogramming but that’s about it. My issue is I don’t actually see anything indicating a spill, I get the little spots that were pointed out, but nothing as to how they got there and it’s such a tiny amount of whatever it is. The unit also doesn’t appear to be dead, it’s like it’s corrupt and can’t boot. If something was spilled it would have had to be a long time ago and someone had to of removed trim to clean it and maybe missed a bit? If it was cleaned they did a good job though.
Yes fleet return to the dealer we bought it from, then CPO inspection and sale to us. I think what I’m trying to wrap my head around is that I haven’t seen anything showing liquid damaged the unit, and if the spots they showed are evidence of that, they are so old, dry, and dirty, that it would have had be long before we got the car.
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I would think they'd have to prove that whatever dried liquid that is (soda, coffee) caused the issue through some sort of diagnostics on the unit. I would think the burden of proof would be on them, not on you to prove it didn't cause a problem. At this point I think they're just guessing as to what the cause and effect are.
I'm an electrical engineer by training (although I'm not a practicing PE), and I just wanted to chime in here:
Instead, you need to move this from a mechanical/electrical discussion to a customer service one (as DFrantz says above, the service guys aren't likely acting in bad faith here).
You should establish that it was a failure of the CPO certification to have sold you a car a few months ago with water damage. Stand steadfastly by that position and do not waiver.
"I was sold a car that had water damage and you missed it, certified the car, sold it to me, and now it's broken" is probably the line you need to stick to (since if you're tellling the truth about not being the culprit, this is entirely true). Escalate if you have to "is there other water damage to the car? Should this have been a salvage title?"
My point here isn't to be a jerk, it's just that right now you're having a discussion of "can I prove I didn't damage this" and you need to be having the discussion of "can they prove they didn't sell me a water-damaged car" because that evidence of water damage is just as damning to the Volvo CPO certification failure as it is to you as an owner.
Just my 2c. Hope this is helpful & good luck!
- It does look like there was some water/liquid present in there at some point. From the photos it looks pretty old, but that's a really difficult thing to prove (read on, because that's not really your problem).
- Liquid around the screws isn't going to break the electronics, but are there signs of gunk/residue anywhere in/around that multipin connector in your second photo? I can't tell if those black spots are printed on the purple wire (and a few others) or if they're mold/residue.
- Regardless, that connector is likely where the evidence would really be-- shine a flashlight into the empty pin slots and see if there's gunk in there. If there is, yeah something got in there and that's just asking for a short.
Instead, you need to move this from a mechanical/electrical discussion to a customer service one (as DFrantz says above, the service guys aren't likely acting in bad faith here).
You should establish that it was a failure of the CPO certification to have sold you a car a few months ago with water damage. Stand steadfastly by that position and do not waiver.
"I was sold a car that had water damage and you missed it, certified the car, sold it to me, and now it's broken" is probably the line you need to stick to (since if you're tellling the truth about not being the culprit, this is entirely true). Escalate if you have to "is there other water damage to the car? Should this have been a salvage title?"
My point here isn't to be a jerk, it's just that right now you're having a discussion of "can I prove I didn't damage this" and you need to be having the discussion of "can they prove they didn't sell me a water-damaged car" because that evidence of water damage is just as damning to the Volvo CPO certification failure as it is to you as an owner.
Just my 2c. Hope this is helpful & good luck!
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There isn't a motivating reason for the dealer to try and not do it under warranty unless they have reason to think Volvo will decline the claim. That's all I'm going with... it's sorta like the "wargames" logic.... you can be safe ignoring evidence if there is only one logical conclusion to come to. There simply has to be a reason they are saying they won't fix it under warranty.... anything else is fairly irrational.
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The challenge is of course the dealer servicing it now isn't the dealer that sold it to you...
How far away is the dealer you bought it from? I just sold a car to a fellow a little over 2 hours away. He had a concern that I don't think is going to be warranty so I sent out a driver to pick his car up and drop off a loaner while we take a look at it. I think the only next step is to reach out to the selling dealer and see if they will step up and look at it. I can't promise they'll give you a loaner... but it's probably not a bad idea to involve your sales person. Good sales folks want folks to have good service interactions.
How far away is the dealer you bought it from? I just sold a car to a fellow a little over 2 hours away. He had a concern that I don't think is going to be warranty so I sent out a driver to pick his car up and drop off a loaner while we take a look at it. I think the only next step is to reach out to the selling dealer and see if they will step up and look at it. I can't promise they'll give you a loaner... but it's probably not a bad idea to involve your sales person. Good sales folks want folks to have good service interactions.
Selling dealer is about 12 hours away, Definitely no mold or mildew, everything is dry and pretty clean if not a little dusty in there looks like they scraped at it with something so that’s what those marks are, and no it doesn’t just wipe off. Had this happen one afternoon and had it to the dealer first thing the next morning. The dealer didn’t even want to take it because they said they were busy and had no loaners, but with no AC or anything we couldn’t do anything with the car anyway so they took it and we will just drive our other car for now. At first I figured they would reflash the unit and that something had corrupted. Boy was I surprised when service called to say we were on the hook cause we had damaged the module.
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Oh snap... not that I never sell to folks from far away, but I am pretty consistent with my "buy local" push when making advice online. Just too many unknowns. But if the deal was worth traveling that far it makes me feel like it's the type of dealer that gets junk and sells it cheaper to get a quick turnover. I know of at least one dealer I wouldn't ever buy a CPO from because they are consistently the cheapest in the market, and to me that means they make shortcuts (not a direct accusation, but the savings has to come from somewhere and I doubt they are just not making money). Generally it is hard to get a great deal on a desirable commodity without some sort of hidden catch. Still it's worth a call to them. If they bulk... then you could try to take it up with Volvo based on the car not meeting certification standards.
Not necessarily a great/bad deal, more like only deal. We needed a 2017-2018, had to be plug in, CPO, 7 seats, picky on interior and color etc. the local dealer said they probably couldn’t get us any form of plug-in for months citing chip shortage. So when it came down to it, for the car we wanted, there were 2. One was 12hr and the other was other side of the country.
XC90 T8 P* Inscription Crystal White 20" | Air suspension | B&W | luxury line | HUD
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This is unbelievable.. The unit does not seem to have any waterdamage. I've had waterdamage in my Mk1 XC90 and that was really visible before things started misbehaving. It really eludes me why they would deny this claim when it's a CPO. Something else must be in play here. If I were you I'd contact a lawyer.
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Does the service record or Carfax show anything that might relate to moisture or an electronics problem?
Nothing on the carfax indicates anything abnormal, well the ac was recharged at like 15k, but the rest is computer checked, ecm reprogrammed once. I don’t even know how much this module controls, between the simi-autonomous driving and vision systems and everything, I’m assuming those are separate modules that just interface with the ihu, but dang.
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Call the dealer that sold you the car and have them deal with it. Or take this one to court. Doesn’t sound like they’ll budge.
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