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Same here in Finland. Even if I totalled a loaner I'd only pay 500 € for it.
Yeah, that would never work in the US - drivers would be wrecking loaners with impunity!

Kind of a bitter pill if in OP's case his insurance gets cranked up because the valet caused a significant loss -that would hurt for awhile!
 

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lawyers…..it is the only profession to make a fortune off other peoples misfortunes!🙄
LOL. Lawyers are like vultures circling an injured animal. Unfortunately, you can die and let the vultures eat you or try to get help and make it another day.

Lawyers certainly aren't there out of the kindness of their hearts, but sometimes, they are the only means to a solution.
 
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I’d be asking for a favorable purchase price on the XC90 and maybe some add ons at cost (polestar upgrade, roof rack, whatever).

The leased car did not belong to the OP. It was a lease and still owned by Volvo. The buy out price at the end of the lease is based on the expected depreciated value of the car at the end of the term, so there isn’t much in way of equity in the vehicle at any point in the lease (there’s obviously some, but not a huge number). Asking for all the money you paid into the lease is unreasonable as it was a sunk cost anyway.
 
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The way this thread is so full of speculation without any real world updates from OP yet cracks me up. It's great to have varying takes on the situation for OP to weigh his options and consider advice, along with useful experience from others in the know, but tensions are running high for absolutely no reason lol.
 
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I’d be asking for a favorable purchase price on the XC90 and maybe some add ons at cost (polestar upgrade, roof rack, whatever).

The leased car did not belong to the OP. It was a lease and still owned by Volvo. The buy out price at the end of the lease is based on the expected depreciated value of the car at the end of the term, so there isn’t much in way of equity in the vehicle at any point in the lease (there’s obviously some, but not a huge number). Asking for all the money you paid into the lease is unreasonable as it was a sunk cost anyway.
Op did not own car, but he had a contract that allowed him to buy out the car at the end of the lease for a negotiated rate.

Volvo's valet, either negligibly or through fault of another driver caused the vehicle to be a total loss.

If fault of another driver, I'm sure Volvo would be far more willing to give favorable terms on another vehicle, as it can subrogate its losses.

If the valet was negligent, then it becomes what does contract say, can op and Volvo come to an amicable agreement, or should op consult a lawyer.

None of us know the answer as OP is awol.
 

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Wow this really sucks!! But... the car was never yours to begin with. So really, they don't owe you anything but to cancel the current lease. A discount on a new one would be nice, but really, since you didn't own the collateral to begin with.. they really don't need to do anything to help out. If the insurance covers the loss, that is all you should expect from this, really.

sorry to be a downer.
Sorry to pee on your parade, but you are very wrong.

The OP had the right to purchase the vehicle at a set price. He is exercising that right.

In the last month two clients of mine did what the OP wants to do. He had a 24k buyout on his 3 year old Lexus sedan, and traded it in on a BMW M for 40k. Another had a 32 k buyout on a Lexus SUV. He sold it outright to a ford dealer for 40K, took the money,and put it down on a X5.

Like you said, at no time did either own the car, but they owned the right to sell it simultaneous to buying it.
 

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Reality check. The OP will put a claim in with his insurance. He should get fair market value for his car less the deductible. the dealer should cover his deductible. His I surance co will go after the dealer or dealers insurance.

The check will probably be cut to the OP and Volvo. If the FMV is is more than today's buyout, the OP would get a check for that amount ($10,200?). Then the OP would take the check for the difference go to whatever dealer he wants and buy a car.

If his Volvo dealer jacks him around he can go down the block to the Chevy dealer, or around the block to the BMW dealer or even heaven forbid the Subaru dealer with the check for the difference.

The only issue I see is how much the check will be for. That's where the dealer has an ethical obligation to step in and fight for the highest value.
 

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Sorry to pee on your parade, but you are very wrong.

The OP had the right to purchase the vehicle at a set price. He is exercising that right.

In the last month two clients of mine did what the OP wants to do. He had a 24k buyout on his 3 year old Lexus sedan, and traded it in on a BMW M for 40k. Another had a 32 k buyout on a Lexus SUV. He sold it outright to a ford dealer for 40K, took the money,and put it down on a X5.

Like you said, at no time did either own the car, but they owned the right to sell it simultaneous to buying it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the scenarios listed, those clients could not sell the cars until they had purchased them off lease, correct? So, till each was purchased by the lessor, the car still belonged to the leasing company, no?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the scenarios listed, those clients could not sell the cars until they had purchased them off lease, correct? So, till each was purchased by the lessor, the car still belonged to the leasing company, no?

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Which he intended to do (purchase). And as anyone who secured a car before the insane market would do in his position. Buy it out, sell it for more than you paid, and buy something else newer!
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the scenarios listed, those clients could not sell the cars until they had purchased them off lease, correct? So, till each was purchased by the lessor, the car still belonged to the leasing company, no?

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It isnt a complicated calculation.
Look up the definition of simultaneous.

Purchase price 34, value 44, that's 10 in equity the OP has/had. No different than buying the car with a loan, and selling it when money is still owed. The seller keeps the equity, or stated differently, the seller keeps the difference between the selling price and what is owed.

How does one sell a car with a lien on the title and give the purchaser a clean title?

How difficult is that to comprehend? The name the title is in is irrelevant for purposes of this discussion.

Also, probably irrelevant is how the OP will get 44 for the car. Simple, his insurance should give him fair market value, and the dealer should have comparable sale data to support the high8value. See the above for an explanation a fifth grader should understand.
 

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It isnt a complicated calculation.
Look up the definition of simultaneous.

Purchase price 34, value 44, that's 10 in equity the OP has/had. No different than buying the car with a loan, and selling it when money is still owed. The seller keeps the equity, or stated differently, the seller keeps the difference between the selling price and what is owed.

How does one sell a car with a lien on the title and give the purchaser a clean title?

How difficult is that to comprehend? The name the title is in is irrelevant for purposes of this discussion.

Also, probably irrelevant is how the OP will get 44 for the car. Simple, his insurance should give him fair market value, and the dealer should have comparable sale data to support the high8value. See the above for an explanation a fifth grader should understand.
LOL... you are really, uh, intense.

Wasn't looking to challenge your... command(?) of the specifics (or compete with fifth graders).

For anyone else able to simply explain to someone who is admittedly a novice on this topic: can one sell a leased vehicle without formally first purchasing it? Still learning how leases work.
 

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This debate about what OP should receive is full of conjecture. We do not know the terms of OP’s leasing arrangement which will govern the disposition of any excess funds/equity in the car. Depending upon the terms of the lease agreement, the equity will go to either the leasing company or OP as the lessee. Bottom line is that the insurance company (whether it be OP’s carrier or some other third party insurance carrier) will determine the ACV of the car and pay that out plus any fees required under state law. In Virginia, that would be the state sales tax and titling fees for the totaled car. Of course the insured can challenge the insurance carrier‘s valuation.
 

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LOL... you are really, uh, intense.

Wasn't looking to challenge your... command(?) of the specifics (or compete with fifth graders).

For anyone else able to simply explain to someone who is admittedly a novice on this topic: can one sell a leased vehicle without formally first purchasing it? Still learning how leases work.
There are two types of leases. An open end and a closed end. One let's you purchase the car at the end (and usually any time in between) the other does not let you purchase the car. Tesla recently changed their leases to ones where you cannot buy the car at the end. That is basically a rental agreement like Hertz.

Hertz, Tesla, Volvo, BMW leases all require insurance. Your insurance policy probably or is required by law to have a clause that covers Hertz rentals, your lease agreement requires you to have proper insurance, the OPs insurance company has the Volvo's VIN, meaning it is insuring only that Volvo, and per the terms with a new car lease he has to have a certain deductible, comprehensive and collision coverage that is agreed to in the contract. The policy covers the OP for the fair market value of the car. Fair market value has been defined by courts, and by the federal government in regulations. This is where GAP insurance comes in.

You are hanging up on not owning the car. When the accident happened, or when the car was traded in, the OP, or my client had the right to buy the car. Where they get the money from is irrelevant.

When they signed the lease deal they meaning OP and Volvo agreed on a buyout and an amortization table specifying buyout at any point in the lease. Just like your home mortgage, or auto loan.

If the car on question's value tanked like an Edsel, or rocketed like all have today the buyout stays the same. That's the gamble Volvo took when the contract started, and why leases are often a better "investment" than buying.
Going off track for a moment, assume not the valet, but the OP only mangled the car a bit. The OP could have the dealer repair it (I said dealer for a reason. The dealer's work, whether great or not should satisfy Volvo's requirements for quality), and at the end of the lease he just turns it in. You and I wouldnt buy that repaired but once mangled used car, and Volvo would eat the loss in value by auctioning instead of CPOing it. On the other hand, if the OP owned the car they would have to sell, or trade it in for less because it was once mangled.

Other than an insurance company instead or the trade in expert at the dealership determining the value of the smashed car immediately before the smash, the deal is no different than trading in a car with a loan.

With a loan the title is branded with a lien. With a lease the title is in Volvos name. If under water on either, at the end of the lease, or trade in time, the OP comes up with money to get out. If not, like the current market, the insurance company or dealer taking the car in trade steps into the OPs shoes, buys the car from Volvo at the set price, and the OP gets the difference.

That's why all this talk about the dealer doing the right thing, and a satisfied customer is irrelevant. His car was worth X at the time of the accident, his buyout (what he owed) is Y and the difference in this case and the other two examples are the amount(s) the purchaser/insurance company gives to the OP.

Dont make it more complicated than it is.
 

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His car was worth X at the time of the accident, his buyout (what he owed) is Y and the difference in this case and the other two examples are the amount(s) the purchaser/insurance company gives to the OP.

Dont make it more complicated than it is.
It’s amazing how little people know about leasing. The conjectured around here is laughable.
The OP is not the owner, Volvo is. Any “equity” in the deal belongs to Volvo. OP will NEVER get a check from the insurance company. That’s just fact. And as far as his right to buy at the end of the lease……. He didn’t exercise that right. Should his purchase been ongoing that would be different, but when a car is totaled the contract ends….along with your rights to purchase the car. I literally have my Volvo lease agreement in front of me. It’s all spelled out plain as day. All these people are saying this is gonna happen and that person is going to money….. it’s just not true and it’s not my opinion. It’s a fact. I’m holding the document in my hand that tells me that….a current Volvo lease contract. I’ve literally gone through this exact process before myself personally, I know what happens. No speculation needed.
 

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It’s amazing how little people know about leasing. The conjectured around here is laughable.
The OP is not the owner, Volvo is. Any “equity” in the deal belongs to Volvo. OP will NEVER get a check from the insurance company. That’s just fact. And as far as his right to buy at the end of the lease……. He didn’t exercise that right. Should his purchase been ongoing that would be different, but when a car is totaled the contract ends….along with your rights to purchase the car. I literally have my Volvo lease agreement in front of me. It’s all spelled out plain as day. All these people are saying this is gonna happen and that person is going to money….. it’s just not true and it’s not my opinion. It’s a fact. I’m holding the document in my hand that tells me that….a current Volvo lease contract. I’ve literally gone through this exact process before myself personally, I know what happens. No speculation needed.
I believe that there are different rules depending upon the state you are in. Thus, it would appear that Volvo may have state specific leasing contracts - just like there are state specific financing contracts. I have seen one instance where Volvo refunded the equity that was over and above the pay off and another where Volvo did not.
 

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I believe that there are different rules depending upon the state you are in. Thus, it would appear that Volvo may have state specific leasing contracts - just like there are state specific financing contracts. I have seen one instance where Volvo refunded the equity that was over and above the pay off and another where Volvo did not.
Likely this is because of a large cash payment at lease inception to reduce capitalization cost. THAT I can see as a possible reason for a check back to you but even then I wonder if that was them being nice as opposed to actually required by law. I'm sure every state does have minute differences. I doubt this instance is different in any state. That is speculation on my part, however.
 

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It’s amazing how little people know about leasing. The conjectured around here is laughable.
The OP is not the owner, Volvo is. Any “equity” in the deal belongs to Volvo. OP will NEVER get a check from the insurance company. That’s just fact. And as far as his right to buy at the end of the lease……. He didn’t exercise that right. Should his purchase been ongoing that would be different, but when a car is totaled the contract ends….along with your rights to purchase the car. I literally have my Volvo lease agreement in front of me. It’s all spelled out plain as day. All these people are saying this is gonna happen and that person is going to money….. it’s just not true and it’s not my opinion. It’s a fact. I’m holding the document in my hand that tells me that….a current Volvo lease contract. I’ve literally gone through this exact process before myself personally, I know what happens. No speculation needed.
I want to learn this so I dont make a fool of myself again in the future like I did yesterday. Thanks in advance. I appreciate you sharing your expertise and insight.

Dome of your facts do not make sense to me. I interpreted your statement of facts to imply that the moment the car is totalled everyone walks away and that's the end of it. What is the wording in your contract that lead to your determination? Somehow the lessor has to get paid, either by the lessee or the lessee's insurance company, and why would someone pay insurance for an interest in something, or an obligation they dont have?

Let's out our heads together and figure this out using the following simple set of facts:
Four identical$40,000 cars leave the dealership the same day.
One is sold for cash = zero financed.
One is sold with a 48 month 0% loan for 100% of the cost.
One is leased for 48 months with zero down and a 50% residual.
One is leased for 48 months with $10,000 down and the same 50% residual.

Based on the above, there should be no debate on the residual/buyout of both leases. It should be the same even though they put down different amounts. Correct?

All four have identical insurance that includes comprehensive and collision with zero deductibles. The four cars are driven the exact same miles and the condition of the four is identical when at 24 months the four cars are parked next to each other and in an instant the four are totalled (spontaneous combustion akin to what killed Spinal Tap's many drummers)

Will the insurance company put the same value on the four cars? Of course they will. Correct?

So riddle me this:
Where will the money end up for each of the four owners/lessees assuming the car after two years is worth:
$35,000 or
$15,000

Cash guy: he gets either $35,000 OR $15,000. Correct?

Loan guy: if $35,000 value, he gets check for $15,000 while bank gets $20,000 owed. Correct?
OR, if $15,000 value, if no GAP he pays bank $5,000 out if his pocket and insurance pays the bank $15,000. If he has GAP insurance, that policy pays the bank $5,000, and he walks away with zero. Correct?

So how does it work for the lessees?

According to what you wrote insurance pays Volvo Finance $35,000, or $15,000 and amount put down at inception, or amount owed be damned!
If that isn't what you meant, tell me, how would the checks be disbursed? I am curious to learn since you literally have the lease in hand, and the little bit I know is laughable.

Let's try another scenario since you threw out the word "equity." Same scenario as above, four cars, only they are totalled the day before the lease expires. Does Volvo get the check for $35,000, or does the insurance win and say they only have to pay $20,000? Is it different if the lessee planned in giving the car back, so no ongoing negotiations, or if the lessee was on his way to the dealer (or VCNA finance HQ) to drop off the signed purchase papers with a certified check? What if he was on his way to the bank to get the check? Where is the line for ongoing negotiations?
 

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Had my car in for service today. Went and chatted with the store manager who has worked for Volvo exclusively for over 15 years. His wife’s S60 T8 is leased. I asked him what happens if it’s hit and totaled by another driver today?
The lessee’s insurance pays off the car based on its value to Volvo Finance. End of story. The lessee has no more “rights” to the car. Not to buy the car. Not to be paid some sort of equity from the car. He does not own it. If the other driver is at fault the insurance companies will fight it out on who pays what. Any “equity goes to the owner which is Volvo Finance. If the lessee put money down on the lease that money is gone, which is to Volvos benefit. This is the reason putting money down on a lease is risky
Remember the flip side - if the car is worth less than the payments that should have been owed to Volvo Finance includes GAP coverage in your contract. Equity or inequity is exclusively born by Volvo Finance.

The only thing is the dealership liability. Depends on the policy you agreed to when you signed the loaner car agreement or work order. Overwhelmingly your insurance is in effect, but store policy could be different. The accident is on your record and you rate likely increases.

It’s that simple. No grey areas. This is 100% from the mouth of someone that has leased literally thousands of Volvos snd managed a store. State law might have some subtle changes in how it works, but ultimately the lessee has very few “rights”. And that sucks for the lessee but that’s the way the game works
 

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Had my car in for service today. Went and chatted with the store manager who has worked for Volvo exclusively for over 15 years. His wife’s S60 T8 is leased. I asked him what happens if it’s hit and totaled by another driver today?
The lessee’s insurance pays off the car based on its value to Volvo Finance. End of story. The lessee has no more “rights” to the car. Not to buy the car. Not to be paid some sort of equity from the car. He does not own it. If the other driver is at fault the insurance companies will fight it out on who pays what. Any “equity goes to the owner which is Volvo Finance. If the lessee put money down on the lease that money is gone, which is to Volvos benefit. This is the reason putting money down on a lease is risky
Remember the flip side - if the car is worth less than the payments that should have been owed to Volvo Finance includes GAP coverage in your contract. Equity or inequity is exclusively born by Volvo Finance.

The only thing is the dealership liability. Depends on the policy you agreed to when you signed the loaner car agreement or work order. Overwhelmingly your insurance is in effect, but store policy could be different. The accident is on your record and you rate likely increases.

It’s that simple. No grey areas. This is 100% from the mouth of someone that has leased literally thousands of Volvos snd managed a store. State law might have some subtle changes in how it works, but ultimately the lessee has very few “rights”. And that sucks for the lessee but that’s the way the game works
So the two people that I know who sold or traded in their leased cars in the last month were figments of my imagination. The car I leased in NY for 3 years and sold to a friend after 2 must not have happened, and the leased car I bought from my friend with 2 checks, 1 to him for the difference between FMV and the buyout and one to the leasing co were also figments.

Ask your expert to tell me how the scenarios I laid out works? The numbers don't add up. Maybe an insurance person knows.
 
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