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A local volvo dealer was returning 2019 XC60 after the pickup/drop-off valet service, and 2 minutes from my house the driver hit a wooden electrical pole, metal electrical guide pole, speed sign - then crossed the road to go down a ditch and through a fence. Amazingly, the driver walked away without even a scratch. (GOD I LOVE VOLVOS!)

So first off, the dealership so far has been amazing. Really great customer service. Brought me a brand new xc60 the next morning, etc. However I'm now starting to talk about what's next, and the goal is to get into the XC90. The original plan was to buy out the XC60 lease at the end of our term ($34,782), hold the car for another year, then trade it in for an XC90 (financed). Obviously, that plan no longer works; but I'd love to get the groups advice on how to negotiate best into the XC90. This is the one on their lot that they have set aside for me while the insurance adjusters finalize the paperwork. I'm thinking if I can get the invoice number it would be a good starting point?
 

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Wow, first time reading about a valet wrecking a customer car. I don't know what the invoice number is for this car but I would imagine that would be a pretty good discount in a time when these cars are probably selling for more, notwithstanding the fact that the dealer wrecked your other car!

I used to have my service work done at that dealer when I lived in the area 20 years ago.
 
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A local volvo dealer was returning 2019 XC60 after the pickup/drop-off valet service, and 2 minutes from my house the driver hit a wooden electrical pole, metal electrical guide pole, speed sign - then crossed the road to go down a ditch and through a fence. Amazingly, the driver walked away without even a scratch. (GOD I LOVE VOLVOS!)

So first off, the dealership so far has been amazing. Really great customer service. Brought me a brand new xc60 the next morning, etc. However I'm now starting to talk about what's next, and the goal is to get into the XC90. The original plan was to buy out the XC60 lease at the end of our term ($34,782), hold the car for another year, then trade it in for an XC90 (financed). Obviously, that plan no longer works; but I'd love to get the groups advice on how to negotiate best into the XC90. This is the one on their lot that they have set aside for me while the insurance adjusters finalize the paperwork. I'm thinking if I can get the invoice number it would be a good starting point?
This is precisely why I love our dash cams, and why I got very defensive when the tech unplugged our dash cam. I'm very glad your dealer is treating you well. And you seem very patient with an otherwise s***y scenario. My 2021 is optioned almost exactly as the one you linked. Same colors in and out. You will be very happy with it if that's what you settle with.

I'm unsure how to price out a totaled leased car, and apply it to, maybe, a discount for that XC90?

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here are some rough numbers I put together...

XC60:
KBB: $45,000
Post Lease Purchase: $34,782
Delta = $10,218

Random ($1,355):
  • I just bought 4 brand new snow tires (19"- won't fit on XC90) @ $870
  • Volvo just put on new all-season tires @ $458

Questions:
  • What is the Invoice price of the XC90?
  • Should I ask for Invoice - 10,218 - 1,355
  • Should there be other things I should ask for on the discount? (volvo loyalty, etc etc etc). Whats the best I can do here?
 

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Should there be other things I should ask for on the discount? (volvo loyalty, etc etc etc). Whats the best I can do here?
They totaled your car, I'd be asking for all of the above and hope that they realize a happy customer is more likely to be a repeat customer, even if it means them having to make a little less on the XC90.
 

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Wow this really sucks!! But... the car was never yours to begin with. So really, they don't owe you anything but to cancel the current lease. A discount on a new one would be nice, but really, since you didn't own the collateral to begin with.. they really don't need to do anything to help out. If the insurance covers the loss, that is all you should expect from this, really.

sorry to be a downer.
 

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Here are some rough numbers I put together...

XC60:
KBB: $45,000
Post Lease Purchase: $34,782
Delta = $10,218

Random ($1,355):
  • I just bought 4 brand new snow tires (19"- won't fit on XC90) @ $870
  • Volvo just put on new all-season tires @ $458

Questions:
  • What is the Invoice price of the XC90?
  • Should I ask for Invoice - 10,218 - 1,355
  • Should there be other things I should ask for on the discount? (volvo loyalty, etc etc etc). Whats the best I can do here?
I'd be asking every dime spent on your car in cash from dealer or Volvo Dealer to throw you into a 2021 or 2022 comparable vehicle for the same lease terms.

As you obviously do not have the benefit of buying that car, and so all the money spent on Leasing is now in vain.

They wrecked your car in an impossible car market. Their screwup not yours.

KBB values mean nothing right now. The used car market values are insane, and used cars are selling for new car prices.

Let alone, you are now without a car. Hopefully you are not a one-car household.
 

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Wow this really sucks!! But... the car was never yours to begin with. So really, they don't owe you anything but to cancel the current lease. A discount on a new one would be nice, but really, since you didn't own the collateral to begin with.. they really don't need to do anything to help out. If the insurance covers the loss, that is all you should expect from this, really.

sorry to be a downer.
I would debate that one considering if his lease terms allowed him to buy the car, all the equity he paid into it is now lost, because he no longer has the option of buying it for the agreed-upon terms.

Not to mention that Volvo dealer has left in -1 car, and hopefully he is not a one-car household
 
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I doubt they'll entertain giving the the equity your lease would have had. There is no way to recoup that at the dealership, they are not under obligation to provide it that I can see, and frankly it's just as well to lose someone as a customer at that point. The offset from MSRP to Invoice is just under 6%, so you're effectively asking for $15k in lost profit potential (cars are selling for MSRP or more right now). I just don't think that's a realistic expectation, of course, it doesn't cost anything to ask.

I would agree there isn't a legal obligation to cover that loss of equity (but I'm not an attorney). The lease contract allows you to buy it... so by that contract... you could still buy it, use the insurance to fix it up and then sell it... and it won't be worth as much because it will be reconstructed, but it's not in violation of the contract.

"Early Termination Because of Total Loss. If you suffer a total loss of the Vehicle,
you are in Default, the Lease terminates and you are obligated to notify the insurer
of the Vehicle and to coordinate with the insurer of the Vehicle to ensure payment
by the insurer of the Vehicle on the claim to us. If you have complied with all other
provisions of this Lease, and the Vehicle is declared a total loss by the insurer of
the Vehicle, you will owe us nothing more once we have received (1) all amounts
due under the Lease as of the date of total loss of the Vehicle, (2) an amount from
you equal to the amount of your deductible and any other subtractions from the
actual cash value under the insurance policy covering the Vehicle, and (3) insurance
proceeds from the insurance policy required under the Lease or the equivalent
amount of the value of the Vehicle. If the Vehicle is a total loss and the requirements
of this Section 36(a) are not satisfied, you will owe the Standard Early Termination
Charge, less the Turn-in Fee."

So nothing in that contract seems set up to give a customer any proceeds from insurance paying more than the buyout. You could call VCFS and ask... but they've been stiffing dealers in the current market so I'm sure they'll stiff a customer too. I think it's unlikely to get more than a discount on the new car.
 

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I doubt they'll entertain giving the the equity your lease would have had. There is no way to recoup that at the dealership, they are not under obligation to provide it that I can see, and frankly it's just as well to lose someone as a customer at that point. The offset from MSRP to Invoice is just under 6%, so you're effectively asking for $15k in lost profit potential (cars are selling for MSRP or more right now). I just don't think that's a realistic expectation, of course, it doesn't cost anything to ask.
Ouch, that's pretty bad, even more so considering the loss occurred at the hands of the dealership - just cost this customer $10k.

I wonder what the fine print says in the valet agreement, if there is one.

I would talk to the dealership and then consult an attorney if that goes nowhere.
 
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Ouch, that's pretty bad, even more so considering the loss occurred at the hands of the dealership - just cost this customer $10k.

I wonder what the fine print says in the valet agreement, if there is one.

I would talk to the dealership and then consult an attorney if that goes nowhere.
I second this, too. If negotiations don't prove fruitful, I'd consult an attorney. Have him read over the lease terms, valet contract, etc. See what your legal options are at your disposal. As I would imagine Volvo leaving you without a car and the equity are avenues worth investigating.
 

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I doubt the full $10k is actual cash value equity for one, but lets pretend it is. I think the highest I've seen is $8k, so it might not be impossible in some markets.

If you take away the accident... if you wanted the car today you'd likely be paying MSRP (minus owner loyalty rebate of $500)... and getting $10k for you trade (using your numbers)...You would NOT get both a discount of invoice and a $10K bump in equity.

If you were to have bought it out and waited a year, you are getting to the point in time when we expect the market to be more normalized.... in a normal market, most leases are NOT worth more than their buyout, so you'd be at a wash there and maybe get $5k off the new one.

But under no situation would you get both the $10k equity and $5k off... those two figures don't exist at the same time. The $10k exists because of the current market, and is not something that anyone would realistically expect to stay once prices normalize. Asking for both is double dipping reality and I don't think a realistic ask, regardless of whos fault it is.

Certainly you could (and perhaps should) speak to an attorney to see if there any anything they can do. Certainly the dealer could just give you what your asking for and take the loss. Just from a common sense approach I don't see it as realistic or required.
 

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I doubt the full $10k is actual cash value equity for one, but lets pretend it is. I think the highest I've seen is $8k, so it might not be impossible in some markets.

If you take away the accident... if you wanted the car today you'd likely be paying MSRP (minus owner loyalty rebate of $500)... and getting $10k for you trade (using your numbers)...You would NOT get both a discount of invoice and a $10K bump in equity.

If you were to have bought it out and waited a year, you are getting to the point in time when we expect the market to be more normalized.... in a normal market, most leases are NOT worth more than their buyout, so you'd be at a wash there and maybe get $5k off the new one.

But under no situation would you get both the $10k equity and $5k off... those two figures don't exist at the same time. The $10k exists because of the current market, and is not something that anyone would realistically expect to stay once prices normalize. Asking for both is double dipping reality and I don't think a realistic ask, regardless of whos fault it is.

Certainly you could (and perhaps should) speak to an attorney to see if there any anything they can do. Certainly the dealer could just give you what your asking for and take the loss. Just from a common sense approach I don't see it as realistic or required.
The car was totaled in today's inflated market and not last year's or future tomorrow's normal market.

The big question is also how the insurance payout works. Depending upon the mileage and condition of the car, the dealer might get close to MSRP back for the totaled vehicle. As I assume this is a dealer Insurance claim and would not go under Ops Insurance due to him not totaling the car.

An attorney might have something to say about the dealer profiteering off the accident, and not at least returning any Equity the op had with in his car.

I guess it all breaks down to the contract. Worst case scenario, I am sure he could find an attorney for a free consultation to find out his rights.
 

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If you take away the accident... if you wanted the car today you'd likely be paying MSRP (minus owner loyalty rebate of $500)... and getting $10k for you trade (using your numbers)...You would NOT get both a discount of invoice and a $10K bump in equity.
True, but owner loyalty is $1,000. ;)

So that, the $10k trade equity and maybe a little more for the customer's trouble and call it even.
 

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Owner loyalty for a lease is %$500... but yeah he did say he was gonna finance the next one... so $1000


The car was totaled in today's inflated market and not last year's or future tomorrow's normal market.
Right, I said that.. and in todays inflated market you're not getting a discount on the new car. His suggestion was BOTH full equity for his would be trade as well as a steep discount that you wouldn't get today. I'm saying that's having your cake and eating it.
 

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Owner loyalty for a lease is %$500... but yeah he did say he was gonna finance the next one... so $1000




Right, I said that.. and in todays inflated market you're not getting a discount on the new car. His suggestion was BOTH full equity for his would be trade as well as a steep discount that you wouldn't get today. I'm saying that's having your cake and eating it.
I would say this is one of the few times I really hope a dealer does right by the customer without thinking of the bottom line.

If I were Op, I's be SOL. I own one car. I hope op isn't in same boat.

I would say before consulting an attorney, if the dealer doesn't do right, I would escalate to corporate. Give Volvo execs a chance to intervene.

I don't think this is an ideal situation for Op or dealer. I've definitely never read a story on swedespeed of a dealer employee totalling a car. I'm sure it's happened before, but far from a regular occurence.

The goal here isn't to make a bad situation worse and to find a means to make everyone happy. As once an attorney gets involved, relations sour.
 

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I don't think this is an ideal situation for Op or dealer. I've definitely never read a story on swedespeed of a dealer employee totalling a car. I'm sure it's happened before, but far from a regular occurence.

The goal here isn't to make a bad situation worse and to find a means to make everyone happy. As once an attorney gets involved, relations sour.
I'd call it an opportunity for Volvo to step up and do right by a customer. If you want to talk the talk of being a premium brand with a premium customer experience then you need to walk the walk and provide the service to match.
 
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I'd call it an opportunity for Volvo to step up and do right by a customer. If you want to talk the talk of being a premium brand with a premium customer experience then you need to walk the walk and provide the service to match.
I would go one step further. Dealers are selling cars for MSRP. Even with short supplies, cars are moving at unprecedented rates. Let's say dealer went above and beyond and took at $20k loss on moving OP into a 2021 vehicle with same lease terms. Applying the equity he built from the previous vehicle.

1. Dealer is most likely going to get TOP insurance dollar for the totaled vehicle.

2. Dealer retains a customer who lets friends and family know when something bad happened, Volvo stepped up to make it right.

3. OP is likely to continue remaining a Volvo Customer. Whereas, if this goes south and an attorney gets involved, it's more than likely that wouldn't happen. Plus, the OP is also likely to tell friends and family of the negative experience.

Again, I 100% agree. Volvo has a chance to show Premium Customer service. This is an usual occurrence and not something that dealers face all too often. So exceptions can and should be made to make all right.
 

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Lol not gonna happen…no dealer is going to take a 5-figure loss on a deal. I’d hope for dead cost on new vehicle (invoice minus holdback minus cash if there’s any), buy rate on lease, and maybe throw in some accessories to sweeten things if needed
 
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