SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
41 - 60 of 83 Posts

·
Registered
2005 V70, 2016 V60
Joined
·
291 Posts
I think you guys are missing the bigger picture:

1. Toyota, Honda, etc all suffered from piston ring / consumption issues at one point. Similar to Volvo

2. Our repair stories (and multiple trips to dealer) are anecdotal and not reflective of a large slice of owners

3. I'm sure Lexus, Toyota, and Honda have all had issues to some degree, but repairs on "Mainstream Cars" are far less costly than Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, etc. So I am wondering if Consumer Reports is calculating repair costs in their survey. Clearly, it's going to cost far more to repair a Volvo than a Toyota.

4. Consumer reports should elaborate on their rankings, by posting their survey and an asterisk beside each vehicle on what the most common repairs / complaints were on that given brand. Without knowing the most common failures and the questions asked, it's very hard to judge if Toyota is "more reliable" and Volvo "less reliable"
All car manufacturers have had their issues at various times. For years Toyota V6s had an oil problem caused by very small passages in the head draining back to the block. We got around that by only running Mobil 1 that would not coke up in the small holes and our first Avalon was running strong and burning zero oil at 350,000 miles.
Having had a variety of Japanese cars and a variety of Euro cars, I can say on average the Euro cars are going to run you 2-4 times the repair costs the Japanese cars will over a long time period. I tend to drive cars until they die in my driveway, so reliability past 200K is important to me. The typical customers that buy or lease high-end cars could not care less about this, the car will be under warranty while they have it.
My V70 would have cost me half as much to repair as to buy it if I paid a shop, it ended up being maybe $400 of parts but the diagnoses was very tricky and the typical shop would have been at it for endless expensive hours. It has actually been reliable as a sledge hammer now I got the various things set right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
It was for his significant other who insisted on getting one. And it ended the same way that he had warned her ahead of time. (If I recall this correctly).

We have a 2017 that had over $20k in work done under the VIP warranty including a new long block engine (in addition to lots of warranty work). It never failed to start or get us to where we were going though. So... reliable...? Yes... I think.

My former 2020 was a nightmare and was taken back by the dealer and I was given a 2021 for it. The 2020 never failed to start though. So... reliable...? Yes... I think?

My current 2021 has had a host of issues...albeit relatively minor. It almost didn't start once (very long cranking and sputtering start one morning). But it eventually started and hasn't repeated that issue yet. So... reliable...? Yes...? Maybe?

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
I don't know the back story, I was joking with him or her about giving it a new home. Beyond this I've never had a car that didn't take money and time out of my life. It's Car ownership!!!

There is no such thing as a reliable car it's a freaking piece of moving machinery, it is bound to break down randomly at some point. Regardless of brand!

Electronics are a whole different ball game, cars are being packed with so many electrical components for two reasons Consumers want want want more luxuries; and what most techs would call lazy convince items, and two auto manufacturers have to compete with other brands for consumer attention.

Because consumerism is at such a all-time high many companies haphazardly toss components into vehicles without doing extensive research. Manufacturers figure they will create a TSB or Recall and deal with the repercussions later, a cheaper option.

Some days I wish car manufactures would tell the engineers Keep It Simple Stupid!

On an ending note, I think we can all agree on two thing we bought our Volvos because they stand behind the safety of there vehicles, and the comfortable seats! :D
 

·
Registered
2021 XC60 T8/Recharge
Joined
·
18 Posts
Not having read the CR report, I'm curious how owners of newer MY's on SS would rate their Volvo's.

For older MY owners, do you think that reliability of the newer MY's are the same, better or worse than yours?

As for CR, it would seem that more information is better than less. Unless there is a fundamental flaw in how they collect their data. And if so, what would be a better way?

I have a MY21, and so far no problems. But there are little things that I notice, that I wouldn't think I should notice in my first Volvo. I do love the car, but there is a reason I chose to lease it.

I do find it funny though that a Volvo sales guy really dislikes a publication that unfavorably rates his brand. I wonder what his tune would be if CR ranked Volvo high next year. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,366 Posts
It was for his significant other who insisted on getting one. And it ended the same way that he had warned her ahead of time. (If I recall this correctly).

We have a 2017 that had over $20k in work done under the VIP warranty including a new long block engine (in addition to lots of warranty work). It never failed to start or get us to where we were going though. So... reliable...? Yes... I think.

My former 2020 was a nightmare and was taken back by the dealer and I was given a 2021 for it. The 2020 never failed to start though. So... reliable...? Yes... I think?

My current 2021 has had a host of issues...albeit relatively minor. It almost didn't start once (very long cranking and sputtering start one morning). But it eventually started and hasn't repeated that issue yet. So... reliable...? Yes...? Maybe?

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

Thanks, Ultra - you are absolutely correct.
Yea, the '21.... I warned her... after my '17 turned out to be a lemon, and after Volvo turned out to be such... well, unpleasant people to deal with in court, I really did not want another one in the house.
After that one was bought back as a lemon, apparently, I was not "loud enough in my opposition" - you just can't win, I swear. :rolleyes:

And, the logic on these forums. If you do not own a vehicle and criticize it, you do not know what you are talking about. If you own more than one, you are an idiot for buying a second one. So what, the only people allowed to express an opinions are first-time owners?

Anyhow, I do not even know why I bother. Fanboys will believe what they want to believe...
 

·
Registered
2005 V70, 2016 V60
Joined
·
291 Posts
Thanks, Ultra - you are absolutely correct.
Yea, the '21.... I warned her... after my '17 turned out to be a lemon, and after Volvo turned out to be such... well, unpleasant people to deal with in court, I really did not want another one in the house.
After that one was bought back as a lemon, apparently, I was not "loud enough in my opposition" - you just can't win, I swear. :rolleyes:

And, the logic on these forums. If you do not own a vehicle and criticize it, you do not know what you are talking about. If you own more than one, you are an idiot for buying a second one. So what, the only people allowed to express an opinions are first-time owners?

Anyhow, I do not even know why I bother. Fanboys will believe what they want to believe...
If you own a Range Rover and a Porsche, complaining about Volvo is like an MG owner saying he'll never buy another MG again, those things are always in the shop, I am sticking to Triumph and Jaguar from now on :LOL:
Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo and Range Rover are ALL premium Euro brands that tend to break down more and and cost more to repair than the average Japanese appliance. It varies by year and model between them, but if you have no tolerance for problems NONE of them are a good idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,631 Posts
"it is all modern cars"
"CR is for old people"
"it is all about software"
"CR is biased"

My god, you guys will jump through all sorts of rationalizations to defend this brand... let's be honest - the cars have (A LOT OF) issues...
Your Volvos are the safest cars on the road, if they never start or leave the driveway!

I'm kidding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ultrarunner511

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Thanks, Ultra - you are absolutely correct.
Yea, the '21.... I warned her... after my '17 turned out to be a lemon, and after Volvo turned out to be such... well, unpleasant people to deal with in court, I really did not want another one in the house.
After that one was bought back as a lemon, apparently, I was not "loud enough in my opposition" - you just can't win, I swear. :rolleyes:

And, the logic on these forums. If you do not own a vehicle and criticize it, you do not know what you are talking about. If you own more than one, you are an idiot for buying a second one. So what, the only people allowed to express an opinions are first-time owners?

Anyhow, I do not even know why I bother. Fanboys will believe what they want to believe...
Who pissed in your cereal, why are you getting so offended because people have different OPINIONS then you?

I'm not a first time owner

I actually work on my own vehicles

No-one here called you an idiot for buying more then one Volvo.

The logic I was implying was the same logic one would apply to anything else in life if your not satisfied with something why buy it again and again?

I drive other vehicles then just Volvo's and work on any type of car brand that needs servicing. So I'm not some fan-boy bud!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Had CR rated volvo 2 out of 28, everyone on here would be celebrating and talking about how useful and relevant CR is. People will try to justify their choices in whatever ways they can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,631 Posts
Had CR rated volvo 2 out of 28, everyone on here would be celebrating and talking about how useful and relevant CR is. People will try to justify their choices in whatever ways they can.
If CR rated Volvo 2 out of 28, it'd be a miracle, but one that still isn't without fault.

Number one we do not know the questions asked on the survey. Number two we have no idea if Consumer Reports is evaluating a car's reliability on the cost of repairs. Which we all know an exotic car will cost far more than a Japanese vehicle to repair. Number 3 we do not know what items are failing on each given car because Consumer Reports does not list that next to the automaker.

Without any of this data I don't put any stock in consumer reports evaluation of cars. Lexus being the best, and Volvo being at the bottom
 
  • Like
Reactions: BenjaminD

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Interesting you should reference "collapsed suspensions" with regard to Mercedes. I have had to replace the air suspensions on my Mercedes twice now. It is the primary reason I wlll veer away from optioning the air suspension on the Volvo. If as many Volvos came with air suspension as standard as do come with Mercedes I suspect the complaints would be equivalent. I spoke to a mechanic who worked on high end cars and he said he would never order an air suspension if he had the choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
I stopped caring about CR and JD Power a long time ago. There was a survey from one of them a few months ago that put DODGE - yes, DODGE - at the top of the initial quality list (something like that). Obvious crap. I also believe that most consumer publications are taking money from certain companies in return for favorable reviews.

Like some other posters have said, it is all relative to expectation. Somebody spending $20k on a Dart probably won't hold it to the same standard as somebody spending $80k on an XC90. Somebody might bring the XC90 to the dealer for a rattling speaker, but it would probably take an awful lot to get your average Dart owner to care for the condition of their vehicle.

I could give a rat's rear end about reliability if I'm supporting a company that puts money into the safety and well-being of its customers, like Volvo, instead of a corporate monolith like Toyota that sees everything through the lens of profit-driven market domination. Yes, Volvo is a for-profit company of course, but they could save a LOT of money if they didn't devote so much effort to safety and sustainability. They could close their high-tech crash center tomorrow and still be very successful - but instead they're willing to crash hundreds of expensive cars per year because that's their priority. Not to mention the fact that most all Japanese cars leave a bad taste in my mouth, and Swedish ones are among the most satisfying to my sensibilities.

On the subject of reliability - I've always felt, maybe due to my bias, that Volvo at least TRIES to make a durable car, whereas Audi and BMW make cars that will definitely be toast in <10 years (planned obsolescence). I see tons of old Volvos where I live and very few old models of other luxury brands. There's a reason for that.

I have had Volvos in my family and in my life since before I was born, from P2s to SPA cars and lots in between. I have never seen them as anything but immensely easy to live with. Yes, like even the best of brands, they have their issues. There are thousands (probably millions) of Toyotas that burn oil. There are Hondas and Acuras with garbage transmissions and terrible paintwork. There are Mazdas with glitchy infotainment and Mercedes with collapsed suspension. But if they were really as bad as some would have you believe, none of these companies would sell any cars. The most reliable brands would completely eclipse everything else. There's more to life than that.

I'm not exactly sure what this rant accomplishes, and I apologize for the long read - but I am sick and tired of the 'consumer publications' that garner income by putting out sensationalized statistics. Some are more factual than others, but I want to remind everybody, that one article does not suddenly make Volvo an unreliable brand - just as one mediocre crash test result (which does not actually come into effect until 2023) does not make the XC40 a death trap.

Interesting you should reference "collapsed suspensions" with regard to Mercedes. I have had to replace the air suspensions on my Mercedes twice now. It is the primary reason I wlll veer away from optioning the air suspension on the Volvo. If as many Volvos came with air suspension as standard as do come with Mercedes I suspect the complaints would be equivalent. I spoke to a mechanic who worked on high end cars and he said he would never order an air suspension if he had the choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Though not the exact article you shared the below article was also released yesterday and by the same author. This is what he says about where the data came from:

"CR gathers auto reliability data through online questionnaires sent to our members. We ask about any problems members may have had in the previous 12 months with 17 aspects of their vehicles, including major areas such as the engine, transmission, and electrical system, as well as issues with body hardware, and paint and trim. Within each of these potential trouble areas, respondents can give feedback on more specific issues that cause a problem, helping us to understand where a vehicle might have experienced troubles, and predict the likelihood of the same or similar models experiencing them. This year CR has data on more than 300,000 vehicles as reported by their owners, covering the 2001 through 2021 model years."

I know CR has a lot of clout. My father was a devout CR reader and I used to have a subscription with them but let it slip. I can understand that CR performs some fancy statistical modeling on their member data acquired via questionnaires but I don't think that makes their results any more valid than Google reviews. Quite literally, I build predictive statistical models for a living and there is one common phrase we are taught from day 1 when it comes to data: "garbage in, garbage out." So long as the CR models are built on the same caliber data as we get with Google reviews, it is plagued by the same issues. As soon as they start using objective data, I'll be the first to support their findings. Until then, their fancy predictive models are still based on bias-filled subjective data and have to be interpreted as such.
CR data are more objective than, say, restaurant reviews in Google. CR asks about concrete issues: what broke down?
 
  • Like
Reactions: rpm92109

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
You can debate on Consumer Reports ranking all life long..... that's why I didn't read this thread accurately.
Just my 2 cents
  • Consumer reports AND Truedelta and all the statistics I have had access to professionnaly say that
  • Toyota and Lexus built rock solid cars for the last 30 years
If you priority is reliability, buy one

Volvo is average or below in term of reliability
See for instance https://car-recalls.eu/reliability/tuv-report-2022-4-5-years/ (You'll see Toyota is not that good either, and that a German organization finds german cars being the best :ROFLMAO: )

All the rest is personnal feeling and wrongly extrapolated impression of relatives or personnal experiences.

Reliability being top of my priority, (juste after safety), I'm stuck as I dislike Toyotas and the lack of available plug-in versions.

So I'll go with a Volvo, trusting their warranty, service, and loaner availability :LOL:
 

·
Registered
2004 V70 T5M -- 2019 V90CC T6
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
I was worried about the reliability, and then I learned that 10yr warranty is available for purchase. Got that, and plan to sell it during the last year of warranty coverage.
Seeing that you're in Canada from your profile, where did you get that offer from? From what I know, 4yrs/250k km is the max extended warranty you can get here.
 

·
Registered
2004 V70 T5M -- 2019 V90CC T6
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
I got unlimited miles CPO added to my existing CPO when I bought my V60, that essentially is a 10 year warranty or close to it from new if you think about it.
In Canada?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
I would not take much of what CR says without understanding the specifics of what constitutes “reliability”.

There was a big deal made a few years ago where Ford got a lower reliability score because the CR subscribers couldn’t operate the mySync system. That isn’t reliability, that’s user error. I could see a similar issue with Volvo since I would guess CR readers tend to be older (as a 36 y/o, I don’t shop by CR reviews and don’t have any friends who do either) and who may not find touch screens as intuitive as the younger generation, therefore lower the “reliability” score for stuff like the mySync issue.

I’m sure there are people who have had significant issues with Volvos, but I own 2 SPA cars and an older 2013 s60 that have all been trouble free, so individual experiences do not necessarily represent a larger problem.
 
41 - 60 of 83 Posts
Top