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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This ranking has to improve for Volvo in the US for it to sell more cars, now that they are going to go all-electric which will mean more software/hardware issues as they have with XC90. XC90 is a good car but for sure there are a lot of annoying software issues.

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This ranking has to improve for Volvo in the US for it to sell more cars, now that they are going to go all-electric which will mean more software/hardware issues as they have with XC90. XC90 is a good car but for sure there are a lot of annoying software issues.

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Yup, totally agree.

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Totally. After two lemon buybacks, I am done with the brand. I still have a Volvo in a vacation home, but... done, despite the fact that, on the days they work, they are awesome cars - especially at their price point.

But you need three of them in the garage to be sure to make it to work in the morning...
 

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Why is XC60 so much better than S60 and XC90, with all of them on SPA?

I have the impression that 2016-17 XC90 was a bit of reliability ****show, but could that impact it so much now? And what of S60?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It just amazes me that we continue to buy Volvo's even after knowing that reliability scores are so bad. I want to understand what is the psychological term for this type of decision making? 😆 I am on my 4th Volvo and for sure I had experienced issues with all the cars but continue to persevere through them. Logic vs. Emotional purchase I guess..
 

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At least we're higher than the Telsa. In a separate ranking report I saw that our XC90 (2021) was 2nd place as far as Best Luxury 3rd Row SUVs.
 
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I take stuff like this with a grain of salt - particularly when there's such a lack of specificity. A lot has changed over the MYs they inquired about (2001-2021). Every one of the Volvos on that list have gone through 2-3 generations with the S60 having had three generations.

Moreover, this data was collected based on their readers - not hard and fast data. My local Chick-fil-A and local Outback Steakhouse both have a 4.6 star rating on Google whereas my absolute favorite restaurant in the midwest only gets 4.5 stars on Google. Does this mean that the food at Chick-fil-A and Outback is better than the best farm to table restaurant I've ever been to? Absolutely not. User ratings are almost entirely set by user expectations and overwhelmingly biased.
 

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What's amazing to me is that anyone reads consumer reports =-D
I think a car shopper is crazy to buy without reading Consumer Reports (re: education), but also crazy to read it without massive truckloads of salt (re: rankings & recommendations).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I agree @mhyer
But Consumer Report is a non-profit Professional(no influencers) Organization that has been around for a very long time, their reviews and ratings have created winners and losers, I know there are companies who reverse-engineer Consumer Report testing so they can perform better on consumer report tests.
I would not consider a Google review to Consumer Report yes there is truth to Consumer sentiment which is reflected in Google reviews but I don't think you can compare Consumer Report which takes consumer data and runs it through their professional engine and creates a score yes it's old school but I think it's still relevant.
 

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I agree @mhyer
But Consumer Report is a non-profit Professional(no influencers) Organization that has been around for a very long time, their reviews and ratings have created winners and losers, I know there are companies who reverse-engineer Consumer Report testing so they can perform better on consumer report tests.
I would not consider a Google review to Consumer Report yes there is truth to Consumer sentiment which is reflected in Google reviews but I don't think you can compare Consumer Report which takes consumer data and runs it through their professional engine and creates a score yes it's old school but I think it's still relevant.
Though not the exact article you shared the below article was also released yesterday and by the same author. This is what he says about where the data came from:

"CR gathers auto reliability data through online questionnaires sent to our members. We ask about any problems members may have had in the previous 12 months with 17 aspects of their vehicles, including major areas such as the engine, transmission, and electrical system, as well as issues with body hardware, and paint and trim. Within each of these potential trouble areas, respondents can give feedback on more specific issues that cause a problem, helping us to understand where a vehicle might have experienced troubles, and predict the likelihood of the same or similar models experiencing them. This year CR has data on more than 300,000 vehicles as reported by their owners, covering the 2001 through 2021 model years."

I know CR has a lot of clout. My father was a devout CR reader and I used to have a subscription with them but let it slip. I can understand that CR performs some fancy statistical modeling on their member data acquired via questionnaires but I don't think that makes their results any more valid than Google reviews. Quite literally, I build predictive statistical models for a living and there is one common phrase we are taught from day 1 when it comes to data: "garbage in, garbage out." So long as the CR models are built on the same caliber data as we get with Google reviews, it is plagued by the same issues. As soon as they start using objective data, I'll be the first to support their findings. Until then, their fancy predictive models are still based on bias-filled subjective data and have to be interpreted as such.
 

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If we take consumer reports at face value (I'm not going to lie. My own Volvo has seen the inside of the Service Bay numerous times), then most luxury brands don't fair well. Except for Lexus. And Audi.

BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, and Volvo are at the bottom of the pack.
 

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If we take consumer reports at face value (I'm not going to lie. My own Volvo has seen the inside of the Service Bay numerous times), then most luxury brands don't fair well. Except for Lexus. And Audi.

BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, and Volvo are at the bottom of the pack.
Does Audi have a better rep than Volvo? Specifically XC90 vs Q7? The e tron is much more than a T8.
 

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The SPA XC90 had the burden of "going first" with the total revamp of the Volvo line, so it's to be expected that there will be more issues both real and perceived. If I recall correctly, a lot of the early negative press on the XC90 involved Sensus, more so than mechanical or electrical issues. For sure there are issues, but I wonder if it's been more tainted because it was first out of the gate.
 

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What’s also interesting is that some of the brands that rank very high on customer satisfaction with their choice rank low here. I love my Volvos even though I’ve had small weird issues that I’ve not had with cars that I didn’t like nearly as much. Also, I’ll put up with small issues as long as the seats are this good, the B&W system is this good and the overall design is this good. Whenever I’m driving my friends comparable cars or when I stray over to BMW or another brand, I always find myself coming back to Volvo….even though I know it won’t be as reliable as another brand.


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My example, and the last time I ever read a CR magazine, was when the Pontiac Vibe came out. It got mediocre reviews for reliability because it was a Pontiac, while the identical Toyota Matrix got amazing reviews. The give weight based on the brands history... when when you rebadge a Toyota and make it a Pontiac shouldn't be a factor. Even if I gave some merit to the rag, I would never want a car that does great on CR because that generally means it's boring as snot with little innovation, and since it will then last forever, means I'm stuck with a boring as snot car with no innovation. If you want a Toyota or Honda then it will give you great confirmation bias.
 

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It’s interesting to me that Tesla has poor reliability ratings and yet it’s at the top in terms of customer satisfaction? Are people so impressed with the technology that they are willing to look past the issues with the car?
 
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What's amazing to me is that anyone reads consumer reports =-D
It’s just laughable that people think somehow consumer reports is some magical scientific entity that somehow was impartial and the final say in reliability. How can people trust them when cars built on the same assembly line but of two different brands received completely two different rankings? I remember once a Buick in a Pontiac that had polar opposite rankings in the Buick was super high. One of the big complaints was the Pontiac had squeaks and rattles and CD player failures why the Buick had none of those issues. No common sense tells you the same car bill by the same people on the same assembly line with the same parts can I have polar opposite rankings. The difference is the half DEF older Buick buyer fills out the report without mentioning issues the car actually has because they can’t hear them…. And they don’t even own a CD so how do they know if the CD player works? I love it when they specifically reduce points because of some certain aspect and then you realize they’re not even operating it properly and the complaint isn’t even valid they’re just not smart enough to evaluate the car intelligently. And what time on the Volvo they reduced points because the second row middle seat didn’t have a headrest but of course we all know the headrest pulls up but they reduce the car is ranking because they weren’t intelligent enough to realize the headrest moves. But also see brands it on one year are amazing and the next year are terrible and that’s not even logical. There can be some interesting pieces of information to glean from their reports but half of what they say is just laughable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm not a paid member of consumer report just an FYI, read about this on insideevs.com 😆
It is still interesting that Consumer Report is still surviving and thriving under the everyone is a reviewer Society.
For sure what Consumer Report usually recommends is quite boring and stale it tends to recommend Japanese companies. I am very curious what happens when Chinese Brands start to come to the US market and how Consumer Report is going to evaluate them.

My current car the 2017 Volvo XC90 T8 continues to have a check engine light it comes in and goes out I took it to the dealer and he said, oh it's a gas cover issue, it should not have a check engine light in my opinion just because of the gas door.
My preconditioning heater is not working so here are two issues that I'm experiencing and this is a supposedly 150 Point check car as a CPO so I would say the reliability is not as good as it should be compared to Japanese cars.
 
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