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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All!

First post and have read a lot of previous posts the past week or so. I am currently shopping around for a new vehicle. I have grown up with Toyota's all my life, never had anything different, except a 5.0 mustang in high school that spent more time in the shop than actual drive time with it!

Currently have a Rav4, which has served me quite well, but am now shopping around. Had a few on the list, Hilander, Venza, Infiniti, MDX, Q5 and xc60.

I test drove a few Audi's last week, was most impressed with the Q5 of the bunch (A3 s-line, A4 s-line, and Q5 non s-line). Volvo dealership was right next door, so I went and spoke with someone there. Ended up testing the xc60 r-design and then they let me take it for a day. Was really impressed with it. The power was great, handling was great, the overall feel was very nice. My wife likes the safety features the most, but thought red suited me as well.

Took that back and they wanted me to test the s60 r-design to see if I could get along with a sedan. Was blown away at how it handled and the power! My wife loved it also, so now instead of taking one off the list, we have now added it.

Here is the real dilemma. In all honesty, really liked everything about the xc60, but some of the nice touches of the Q5 were nice, the hi-res screen for the digital speedometer, the upgraded materials, the MMI was really spot on. But I don't get excited to drive it when I see it, which tells me which way I'm heading.

My questions at this point revolve around maintaining costs and reliability. As mentioned, have had great service with Toyota and haven't had many issues with them, they are relatively inexpensive to service. What is the general concession with Volvo's?

I haven't driven the Infiniti or MDX yet, but feel I need to cover all my bases before a decision is made. A bit concerned with the wear of the seats in the xc60 I drove, only 1000km on it, and starting to show a bit. 2013 looks like it's coming with an upgrade to the interior, we should have more info next month.

Sorry for the choppy post, got a lot going through my mind. I know a lot of you have tested many of the same vehicles and have choses the xc60, as I am leaning that way right now, but wanted to get some feedback, especially as compared with Audi and the likes and especially switching from Toyota which seems to have a lot of the same features and at a bit lower price.
 

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Hi there. After about three months of research, I just bought a new XC60 3 weeks ago, and I am very happy with it. I also come from a long time of Toyotas. Currently, we have a Highlander, which we really like. I test-drove most of the cars you mentioned in your post, and the XC60 was an easy choice to make. During my research, I found overall Volvo reliability seems to be about average in the industry. I am hoping the XC60 will prove reliable, but in the US this model has only been sold since 2010, so I guess there is not enough history to track long-term reliability yet. I will however defer to other forum members with more experience.

I did do a lot of research and test driving, and I would recommend you review sources of reliability data such as Consumer Reports or JD Powers. Me personally, I have nothing against Audi and I think they make beautiful cars, but Audi reliability is consistently below par in most car-related publications, so I would caution you to read about it first. Some people may mistake luxury for reliability, but they don't really go hand-in-hand. As far as maintenance costs, at least in my neck of the woods, Volvo includes free maintenance + wear & tear for the first five years, so that is also part of the equation.

Good luck shopping around!
 

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We test drove practically everything in the small SUV class including: Kis Sportage, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rogue, Ford Edge, Infiniti FX (1st and 2nd gen), BMW X3 (new), Audi Q5, XC60 3.2/T6/RD, Honda CRV, Lexus RX350 (1st and 2nd gen), Nissan Murano, etc. Search for some of my posts for the details. In general, the Audi Q5, BMW X3 and XC60 were the top contenders by far for us. We came form BMWs so frankly, we expect problems...these things aren't Japanese cars...sorry (heck we only made it 2 weeks before our first check engine light). In all honesty, the X3 is probably the best car in this class, but even it had issues. I was underwhelmed by the X3's powerplant (28 or 35) - the T6 is really just so sweet in terms of output and power delivery. The X3 rides better and feels a whole notch above the Volvo in terms of quality/solidity/luxury. We do love the passion red and my wife likes the general drive. Frankly, the ride quality and some of the solidity of construction are my two biggest complaints. Like you, the Audi was neither here nor there for us...nothing really wrong with it, but I just didn't have any passion for it. In the end, we got a decent deal on the Volvo and love the power, color and style. I am embarking on some mods now to try and improve the ride quality..we'll see how that goes.

I'll admit much of this is relative. If you are coming from a Toyota the Volvo probably seems pretty dang nice. If you are coming from a BMW, Mercedes or Audi that is much tougher competition.


Good Luck!
 

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Hello All!

First post and have read a lot of previous posts the past week or so. I am currently shopping around for a new vehicle. I have grown up with Toyota's all my life, never had anything different, except a 5.0 mustang in high school that spent more time in the shop than actual drive time with it!

Currently have a Rav4, which has served me quite well, but am now shopping around. Had a few on the list, Hilander, Venza, Infiniti, MDX, Q5 and xc60.

I test drove a few Audi's last week, was most impressed with the Q5 of the bunch (A3 s-line, A4 s-line, and Q5 non s-line). Volvo dealership was right next door, so I went and spoke with someone there. Ended up testing the xc60 r-design and then they let me take it for a day. Was really impressed with it. The power was great, handling was great, the overall feel was very nice. My wife likes the safety features the most, but thought red suited me as well.

Took that back and they wanted me to test the s60 r-design to see if I could get along with a sedan. Was blown away at how it handled and the power! My wife loved it also, so now instead of taking one off the list, we have now added it.

Here is the real dilemma. In all honesty, really liked everything about the xc60, but some of the nice touches of the Q5 were nice, the hi-res screen for the digital speedometer, the upgraded materials, the MMI was really spot on. But I don't get excited to drive it when I see it, which tells me which way I'm heading.

My questions at this point revolve around maintaining costs and reliability. As mentioned, have had great service with Toyota and haven't had many issues with them, they are relatively inexpensive to service. What is the general concession with Volvo's?

I haven't driven the Infiniti or MDX yet, but feel I need to cover all my bases before a decision is made. A bit concerned with the wear of the seats in the xc60 I drove, only 1000km on it, and starting to show a bit. 2013 looks like it's coming with an upgrade to the interior, we should have more info next month.

Sorry for the choppy post, got a lot going through my mind. I know a lot of you have tested many of the same vehicles and have choses the xc60, as I am leaning that way right now, but wanted to get some feedback, especially as compared with Audi and the likes and especially switching from Toyota which seems to have a lot of the same features and at a bit lower price.
Like you, I had a Japanese car phase which lasted about 20 years -- and included Camrys and Hondas (my favorite was my '02 S2000).

The car I bought just before my wife's XC60 was a 2009 Honda Civic EX-L Navi. It's the last Honda I will own. Bottom line is that the car isn't well built and has a terrible interior...even with the leather.

It took me over two years to decide to buy the XC60, my first Volvo. I keep cars about seven or eight years and begin hard shopping for the next car about five to six years in. With that kind of time lag, you can do more than just test drive a car -- you can REALLY get to know it. You can spend months in the forums, read everything you can find on the Internet and watch the pricing trends closely.

(For example, did you know that the XC60's T6 engine is made in Wales in a Ford plant, the AT is Japanese and that Volvo stamps body panels in Sweden and ships them to the Belgium assembly plant? All things you can learn if you take your time learning a car. It may be useless knowledge, but I think it's the kind of thing an owner might want to know. Of course, you have to take what you learn on the Internet -- especially in the forums -- with a grain of salt. But the sheer volume of technical and user information available that you can trend over time is astonishing,)

I wanted to love the Q5. I like German cars. The fit and finish in Audis is amazing. But what killed it for us was a test drive in which my teenage daughter and I sat in the rear seat. It was like a pew. Hard as a rock and uncomfortable after only five minutes. Plus, the Audi Q5 is a corporate cousin of the Tiguan, using the same pedestrian platform as that car and, I believe, the Q5 isn't even assembled in Germany.

The XC60 we bought is a notch below the Audi in many ways: fit and finish, refinement, handling and especially in the electronics. But it wins in safety and funkiness. It's less common, too. Couple those advantages with Consumer Reports' average reliability ratings and a great Overseas Delivery program (the only way I'd buy a Volvo) and it comes up the winner, at least for us.

Search for posts by my in this forum and you'll see I am none too happy with Senus and fit-and-finish. If you can't live with better-than-GM-but-not-quite-Audi levels of FnF, then you won't be happy with the XC60. But if you want a real looker (the XC60 is, by most opinions, an exceedingly attractive design), are willing to load it up with all the safety gear, you'll be happier than with the Q5.
 

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I wanted to love the Q5. I like German cars. The fit and finish in Audis is amazing. But what killed it for us was a test drive in which my teenage daughter and I sat in the rear seat. It was like a pew. Hard as a rock and uncomfortable after only five minutes. Plus, the Audi Q5 is a corporate cousin of the Tiguan, using the same pedestrian platform as that car and, I believe, the Q5 isn't even assembled in Germany.

The XC60 we bought is a notch below the Audi in many ways: fit and finish, refinement, handling and especially in the electronics. But it wins in safety and funkiness. It's less common, too. Couple those advantages with Consumer Reports' average reliability ratings and a great Overseas Delivery program (the only way I'd buy a Volvo) and it comes up the winner, at least for us.

Search for posts by my in this forum and you'll see I am none too happy with Senus and fit-and-finish. If you can't live with better-than-GM-but-not-quite-Audi levels of FnF, then you won't be happy with the XC60. But if you want a real looker (the XC60 is, by most opinions, an exceedingly attractive design), are willing to load it up with all the safety gear, you'll be happier than with the Q5.
Ditto on the above comments regarding the XC60 and the comment on the Audi Q5 rear seat is spot on. My wife and I sat in it and were like "Um, this is ridiculous"....such a dumb thing that could have been so easily rectified. The BMW rear seat has its own issue...you sit a bit low and as a result you are somewhat "knees high". I wish I could combine the Audi, Lexus, BMW and Volvo into one super SUV in this segment. Exterior body and engine from the Volvo, chassis, suspension and interior from the BMW, automatic tranny, shift tuning and AWD gear from the Audi, and um..well I guess the quality from the Lexus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey everyone, thanks a bunch for the replies, it has been very insightful and helpful.

I agree with cab (my father's initials), wish I could combine a bunch of these into one. I haven't driven the lexus (maybe tomorrow), or the Infiniti (not a fan of the look of it I guess), and when I think about it, I want to love the Volvo. It is my favourite looking one of the bunch, especially in Passion Red. It was fast (s60 rd was wicked though), and handled great for me (looking into the beefed up stabilizer bar) as I have come from simple toyotas. Really the only thing I was disappointed in was the interior and have been wondering about a few things such as why a 2009 Q5 sells for not much below what a new one would cost me now, and yet a 2009 XC60 depreciates so much over the same time frame, and I have read conflicting reports of maintaining it over the years, some say it's super expensive and others say naught to this. I like the inside of the Lexus, as well as the build quality, but I wanted something fun to drive to work (Volvo fits the bill on this point), and was a bit different. At least I have some time. Looking at buying in the next 8 or so months, but I am one that likes to research and decide and then when I'm ready, pounce on a great deal that comes up.

With the new trim level on the 2013 (inscription?) perhaps it might come closer to the others? I have read the leather in some isn't all that great. Looked at a bunch of pics of 2009-2011 xc60's and there was some noticeable cracks in the leather and looked not so hot, but boy the seats are comfy! Frustrating times to say the least, but I have to agree with Lexus, in the pursuit of perfection :)

Will keep you posted, and I have enjoyed reading some of the other posts by those that responded. Again, much appreciated, especially your candor and honesty. As it sits right now, I am still in love with the xc60 r design, I think I have eliminated the Audi, but my wife will need a quick test drive to confirm. She doesn't like the look of it, but then again, as far as cars go, we are opposites :)
 

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Seat leather is a concern too....which is why I researched the prices for new seat covers ahead of time (basically, $450 for the lower cushion cover and $450 for the back cushion cover - R-design style - you can factor those $$$s in if you want). The bottom cushion outer edge seems to be getting the most wear - since we sort of sit on it when getting "down" out of the vehicle (my wife and I aren't very tall). The RD will probably wear a bit worse simply because it is more heavily bolstered AND the leather appears to be the smooth, perhaps higher end, variety. As a comparison, my wife had an '01 530i with the standard heavily textured leather. At 125K miles it looked great - she described it as tough elephant skin (it was gray so that description really applied). Conversely, My '02 M5 with less than half as many miles has the "higher end" smooth leather. It is definitely heavier leather than the Volvo, BUT it sure hasn't worn as well...so much so that I had to do this over the last few weekends:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/204491-caramel-door-panel-re-dye.html

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/205244-caramel-seat-bolster-armrest-re-dye.html

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/205720-caramel-seat-re-dye-part-3-a.html

Test drive the X3 (you might as well since you are now in that price range), but know that you might need to spend a considerable hunk more to get the same "fun features" - or just give them up. Unfortunately, I am now addicted to PCC and will have a tough time ordering a car w/o it now - dang you Volvo!

A buddy of mine just ordered a new X3 28i (new turbo 4) white M-sport package...It stickered at $54K as ordered (lot of options as he is a techy). I wish they had a really sweet color on those (like passion red), but they don't. If we had gotten one I might have gone with the deep sea blue with the (sweet) Oyster interior or perhaps Alpine white on Oyster. Like the Volvo, you have to get the M-sport (aka R-Design) package to get the nice exterior cosmetic features - like the body color lower section - which stinks as it is so pricey.
 

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I test drove all the cars mentioned in this thread and there was no perfect car for me (maybe a Cayenne but I didn't have an extra $20,000) so it was a decision as to which was the best compromise. I had had three Volvos before my last car which was a Lexus RX 300. For the most part the Lexus was wonderful but I won't ever buy another Toyota product. They had problems with that engine and the transmission. They extended the warranty for the engine but completely ignored thousands of early transmission failures. I keep my cars for 10 to 12 years and my priorities are safety, reliability, value, and driving enjoyment. I am 6'4" so I don't comfortably fit in some cars. I need AWD and good clearance for driving in unplowed snow.

The Volvo is hands down the safest (it was awarded the Insurance Institute's Safety award last year). It has great technology for avoiding those accidents caused by momentary inattention or distraction. My previous Volvos were reliable to til the end. It uses regular gas. (I know it is only a few hundred a year but over 10 or twelve years it adds up.) The warranty covers everything but tires for 5 years. We took OSD and drove around Europe for a month and got the flights and a car in Europe so that was another few thousand dollars in value. The seats are remarkably comfortable and with 15,000 miles on the car I see no visisble wear. I have the 3.2 and get great gas mileage for an AWD SUV.

There are a few annoyances- the speedometer is terrible. You can get a digital readout in km/hr but none for mph. The Sensus with nav is powerful but clunky. I haven't had another car with this kind of system so they all may be this clunky. The ride is a little jolting but you do get good road feedback. I am a convert to the adaptive cruise control. It is fantastic if you do a lot of highway driving. The PCC was thrown in by the dealer and is also a wonderful piece of technology that I didn't think I would become attached to but it is so nice to not have to search for a key and have to handle it every time you go to and leave your car. I have just started using the "automatic manual" shifting and it really changes the car. It makes the car much more fun to drive around winding or hilly roads. It really works well and makes the car very responsive. The closest competitor in the end was the Q5 which was more fun to drive but isn't as safe, has a higher price, uses premium, isn't as reliable, doesn't include 5 years of service, and has no European vacation so it was a no brainer.
 

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I also came from a long standing relationship with Toyota. My rd replaced a 90 4-Runner and while the Toyota was very reliable, there sure wasn't much "fun factor" driving it. When my wife and I started to shop around for a new vehicle, it didn't take us long to realize that we would end up with a Volvo- we just needed to decide which one and the XC-60 is perfect for us. It is fun to drive, the size is just right for what we use the vehicles for and the safety features make the car a no brainer for us. Hense the "His" and Hers" in my signature. As others have mentioned, there is a compromise (or many compromises) in purchasing a new vehicle so I guess that one needs to decide what their priorities in a vehicle are before deciding. Pete
 

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Never liked the way Toyotas feel. Honda man myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
wow, some great comments here, thanks so very much!

As it sits today, I have relinquished the Audi to last place. You know, at least for me, when I drop a lot of cash into a new vehicle, I want to be excited about it. With the Audi, I look at the pictures I took of the car and it doesn't get me excited. That tells me something.

I am going to have a look at the BMW this next week just to see, but was afraid of the maintenance afterwards.

Drove the 2013 Lexus RX350 today. I think the redesign on the exterior was favourable, meaning, they made these look nicer to me than previous models. Interior was great and nicely appointed. I even liked the leather on the door panels! I did like they had fog lights. I wish the xc60 had those. A few gripes. First big one, gutless! Floored the thing and I didn't feel it was any better than my 12 year old Rav 4! The ride was extremely smooth and comfy, very quiet inside, but I left desiring more. They are coming out in a few months with their sport model, the 350f Sport which will give it some more sporty feel. Have a test drive set up as soon as it arrives. The salesman didn't know anything about it, I was unfortunately able to tell him more, but we will see how that drives. Nice upgrade to a 8-speed vs a 6-speed transmission, ends up getting 1mpg better in city and highway than the xc60, but all of the others have been much worse. I'm not holding my breath, but we will see. No panoramic roof, no blind spot etc. They did mention 42 stages of paint, but yet comes with a 6 year warranty, I think the xc60 has 12? Perhaps I heard wrong. The salesman also mentioned that the abs pumps 15 times a second for greater safety, and the competition is only 6 or so a second.

Not much change for the 2013 xc60 that I can find, but maybe the insignia might have some nice features? I agree with avery1317, the speedo isn't that nice on the xc60, the others were nicer looking, hi res displays, and were nice to look at.

so at the end of today, still think I would be getting the xc60 for sure, if the lexus had more umph in the f sport, would be a close call, the audi has slipped down to last place, with bmw set to be driven in the near future. Toyota doesn't have anything I really like, but I have been drawn to the Venza a bit, but didn't excite me too much sitting in it. Those are my thoughts.

again thanks to all for your comments, they have been great to read!
 

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As it sits today, I have relinquished the Audi to last place. You know, at least for me, when I drop a lot of cash into a new vehicle, I want to be excited about it. With the Audi, I look at the pictures I took of the car and it doesn't get me excited. That tells me something.

I am going to have a look at the BMW this next week just to see, but was afraid of the maintenance afterwards.
Certainly agree with your verdict about the Q5. When we were looking about 12 months ago to replace our '05 XC70, it was a 3-horse race between the XC60, Q5 and X3. The Q5 dropped out very early - while it possibly had the best interior of the three, it simply did nothing for us. In the end it was between the XC60 and X3. Was going for the XC60 D5, but in the end went with the X3 30d. Really wanted to stay with Volvo after 3 new Volvos in a row (we still have a C30 T5), but in the end the main reason was the engine - Volvo's D5 diesel is very ordinary. In your case of course you are only looking at the petrol (gas) engines and I'm assuming the T6 engine. From my test drive of the XC60 T6 its a great engine only let down by ordinary fuel economy. We don't have the X3 35i in Australia so I wasn't able to make a direct comparison. In the end a little academic because the X3 30d actually outperforms (0-100 km/h time) even the Polestar-tuned XC60 T6.

Other minor things I didn't like about the XC60 was the fabric-type sunblind on the panoramic roof (the X3 has a solid blind) and the silly location and action of the electronic hand-break. The auto-hold and release system on the X3 works much better.

On the plus side for the Volvo I suspect are the seats. While the X3's standard seats are OK for some of the regular 10-11 hr trips we do, based on our experience with our old XC70 I suspect the XC60's seats would be more comfortable for the longer trips.

Can't really comment on the maintenance costs for the X3 - I have an extended warranty and service contract which was purchased with the car. Discuss this with your BMW dealer (although things may be different in the US).

Either way, best of luck with your decision.

Tony
 

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wow, some great comments here, thanks so very much!

As it sits today, I have relinquished the Audi to last place. You know, at least for me, when I drop a lot of cash into a new vehicle, I want to be excited about it. With the Audi, I look at the pictures I took of the car and it doesn't get me excited. That tells me something.

I am going to have a look at the BMW this next week just to see, but was afraid of the maintenance afterwards.

Drove the 2013 Lexus RX350 today. I think the redesign on the exterior was favourable, meaning, they made these look nicer to me than previous models. Interior was great and nicely appointed. I even liked the leather on the door panels! I did like they had fog lights. I wish the xc60 had those. A few gripes. First big one, gutless! Floored the thing and I didn't feel it was any better than my 12 year old Rav 4! The ride was extremely smooth and comfy, very quiet inside, but I left desiring more. They are coming out in a few months with their sport model, the 350f Sport which will give it some more sporty feel. Have a test drive set up as soon as it arrives. The salesman didn't know anything about it, I was unfortunately able to tell him more, but we will see how that drives. Nice upgrade to a 8-speed vs a 6-speed transmission, ends up getting 1mpg better in city and highway than the xc60, but all of the others have been much worse. I'm not holding my breath, but we will see. No panoramic roof, no blind spot etc. They did mention 42 stages of paint, but yet comes with a 6 year warranty, I think the xc60 has 12? Perhaps I heard wrong. The salesman also mentioned that the abs pumps 15 times a second for greater safety, and the competition is only 6 or so a second.

Not much change for the 2013 xc60 that I can find, but maybe the insignia might have some nice features? I agree with avery1317, the speedo isn't that nice on the xc60, the others were nicer looking, hi res displays, and were nice to look at.

so at the end of today, still think I would be getting the xc60 for sure, if the lexus had more umph in the f sport, would be a close call, the audi has slipped down to last place, with bmw set to be driven in the near future. Toyota doesn't have anything I really like, but I have been drawn to the Venza a bit, but didn't excite me too much sitting in it. Those are my thoughts.

again thanks to all for your comments, they have been great to read!
The Lexus 'f' will be interesting. We enjoyed our '06 RX330 with 'only' 226hp and it would be hard to go back after driving the T6. However, 270/275hp in the RX350f Sport might be tolerable ;) . I'll be curious to hear what Volvo folks have to say about the 'soul-less-ness' of the RX in the new trim. Might be fun if they had a 'Polestar' aftermarket mod. An RX with 300hp would be really fun!

I really don't see the draw of an 8-speed tranny. Six is plenty for me ;) . Panoramic roof--meh...the roof on our RX was fine...only person in the back seat is our Scottie and she would rather look out the side windows! Rearward visibility in the XC is better, I believe; but the RX wasn't bad. No BLIS would be fine with me...not crazy about it.

All in all, I think it gives Volvo a little something to consider. Bodes well for 'us' as Volvo might keep up the incentives(extended S&S, for example) to maintain an 'edge'.

Even though I keep talking about OSD-ing a replacement for our '10 XC60 in a little over a year, I'll have to take a peek at the RX-f when it comes to the showroom. No offense, y'all :) .
 

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Coach if I were you I would test drive all of the major luxury competitors when you get ready a year from now. The new turbo 4 X3 is out (and of course the 35i) - the latest software patch appears to have addressed (at least 90%) the issue with the throttle on those. Audi is putting the supercharged 3.0 in their Q5 (their turbo 4 was great, but the 6 was meh). The forced induction engines just have nice nice fat torque swell and you don't get it with the competing NA 6 cylinders (including the Lexus and Infiniti FX) - makes the FI cars just that much funner to drive. p.s. - After having spent a few days cleaning up and doing some dye work on my all-leather (seats, door panels, console, and dash) interior on my M5 I am reminded of how much I love it...might be worth a look at that Inscription package from Volvo too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
going to start a new thread, as I have officially relinquished my desire to replace my toyota with another one at this point in time. There is nothing wrong with Toyota, I think they are still excellent quality, but unfortunately they don't have anything to offer me like the choices I am looking at. I want a little sport with the cross over. That was the reason for starting the thread, was to go over some of the differences with Volvo and Toyota.

Thanks for all your replies. I am starting a new thread as my journey continues contrasting the 3 main vehicles I am looking at, the Volvo XC60 RD, the Audi Q5 s-line, and the soon to be released and test driven, Lexus RX350 F-Sport.
 
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