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Just saw a Volvo commercial, They now have automatic braking, they are calling it City Safety. Not sure of model I believe they said XC60. Anyone else heard of this? What are your thoughts?
 

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Took one for a test drive while I was waiting for my R to come outta the service bay. Gotta say.. I was impressed with the XC60.. the auto braking feature is cool but it only works with you're doing slowwwww speeds (5mph).. and it hits the brakes HARD. Haha i went straight forward not expecting it to brake so hard.<p>The one thing that irked me was that after it braked.. after it stopped it immediately released the brakes and i went right into the testing cones. Sales guy told me the auto braking feature is to get your attention so you put your foot on the brake. Either way, I don't know how much I'd need the feature, but it was kinda cool<br>
 

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Re: (harderbeats)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>harderbeats</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Took one for a test drive while I was waiting for my R to come outta the service bay. Gotta say.. I was impressed with the XC60.. the auto braking feature is cool but it only works with you're doing slowwwww speeds (5mph).. and it hits the brakes HARD. Haha i went straight forward not expecting it to brake so hard.<p>The one thing that irked me was that after it braked.. after it stopped it immediately released the brakes and i went right into the testing cones. Sales guy told me the auto braking feature is to get your attention so you put your foot on the brake. Either way, I don't know how much I'd need the feature, but it was kinda cool<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Stop jerking off the sales people. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"> jk jk.<p>I should send you to PUtnam volvo to harrass some of hte people i dont like over there.<p>
 

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Re: (chinaonnitrous1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>chinaonnitrous1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Stop jerking off the sales people. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"> jk jk.<p>I should send you to PUtnam volvo to harrass some of hte people i dont like over there.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>haha dude the sales dude asked ME if i wanna drive it! i didn't even notice it out front.. who am i to turn down a test drive? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (harderbeats)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>harderbeats</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>haha dude the sales dude asked ME if i wanna drive it! i didn't even notice it out front.. who am i to turn down a test drive? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I kno!<p>I walked into Mazda.... and some n00b asked me if I wanted to see the new Mazda 3.<p>I'm like, uh. ..... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: City Safety (vlvman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>vlvman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just saw a Volvo commercial, They now have automatic braking, they are calling it City Safety. Not sure of model I believe they said XC60. Anyone else heard of this? What are your thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Imagine that. And you can even find out more on the XC60 Forum. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=109418" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=109418</A>
 

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My wife and I just did the Volvo XC60 presentation at our local dealership two days ago. Volvo had several XC60's there and we did the city safe demo, pretty cool I will say. I guess Volvo is traveling throughout the country doing this presentation/unveiling of the XC60. I then went out and test drove one and was impressed with it. Nice interior and nice features. I also like the BLISS system. They had one fully loaded with 19" gray two tone wheels that looked really nice. I think the XC60 puts Volvo where it needs to be with the technology front as they have been behind in my opinion but hopefully the XC60 will give them a boost. Overall, it is a nice looking SUV, crossover or whatever you want to call it. I got a free Volvo safety kit also, pretty nice.
 

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Re: City Safety (vlvman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>vlvman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are your thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>I'm glad I won't be around long enough for more of this "safety" equipment being rolled out to ever end up in one of my cars. The dream of making the driver just another widget in the metal box rolls on; all for our own good, of course. <end rant>
 

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Re: (harderbeats)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>harderbeats</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Took one for a test drive while I was waiting for my R to come outta the service bay. Gotta say.. I was impressed with the XC60.. the auto braking feature is cool but it only works with you're doing slowwwww speeds (5mph).. and it hits the brakes HARD. Haha i went straight forward not expecting it to brake so hard.<p>The one thing that irked me was that after it braked.. after it stopped it immediately released the brakes and i went right into the testing cones. Sales guy told me the auto braking feature is to get your attention so you put your foot on the brake. Either way, I don't know how much I'd need the feature, but it was kinda cool<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's designed to REDUCE damage in city collisions (slow driving) from 18mph-9mph and PREVENT accidents below 9mph. If it does stop you, it will hold the brakes for 1.5 seconds. The theory behind it is that the jolt and stopping with gather your attention what to where it was supposed to be and you'll, out of reflex, grab the wheel + foot on brakes.
 

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Re: (MancUnited1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MancUnited1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>It's designed to REDUCE damage in city collisions (slow driving) from 18mph-9mph and PREVENT accidents below 9mph. If it does stop you, it will hold the brakes for 1.5 seconds. The theory behind it is that the jolt and stopping with gather your attention what to where it was supposed to be and you'll, out of reflex, grab the wheel + foot on brakes.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Well, sounds great in theory, but 1.5 seconds is not long enough in my opinion. Driver should already be holding the wheel, I hope. The same thing happened to me and while I was watching others try it out, it was happening to some of them also. It's always been about the driver reacting and applying the brakes FIRST hoping to avoid a situation. Now it's essentially the complete opposite. Remembering to apply the brakes AFTER the fact.<br>
 

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Re: (pattyweb)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pattyweb</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Well, sounds great in theory, but 1.5 seconds is not long enough in my opinion. Driver should already be holding the wheel, I hope. The same thing happened to me and while I was watching others try it out, it was happening to some of them also. It's always been about the driver reacting and applying the brakes FIRST hoping to avoid a situation. Now it's essentially the complete opposite. Remembering to apply the brakes AFTER the fact.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>In all honesty, it's not an issue. <p>First, in this demo, you are consciously trying NOT to brake. <p>Second, the stupid salespeople probably aren't telling you that you must put your foot on the brake after you've stopped. <p>Third, if that was real life, it's likely that you would be braking closely after the city safety system kicked in. It'd be your natural reaction. <p>
 

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Re: (pattyweb)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pattyweb</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>...1.5 seconds is not long enough in my opinion....<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>All of these "driver intervention" features are new, and the design engineers have to figure out the right balance among:<br>- reminding<br>- severe warning<br>- taking control<br>- giving back control<p>In this case, it's hard to do much reminding at low speeds, because drivers (for better or worse) tend to creep along directly behind the bumper of the leading car in city traffic, so the "reminding" would be constant and annoying. And for similar reasons, the reaction times here are too short to have a much of a warning before taking control of the brakes. The application of brakes is deliberately sudden, not just to stop the car but also to jolt the driver to attention. Now we're left with last issue of giving back control: how long should the car wait for you to take active control after this occurs? If you are a generally competent driver, then 1.5 seconds is a long time compared to other reaction intervals you are expected to deal with. If you are clueless or confused, then 5 or 10 seconds might not be long enough.<p>Arguably, even 1.5 seconds of not being able to move the car could become dangerous. Consider a couple of very possible scenarios:<p>1. You are tailgating the front car at low speeds, trying to get through a city intersection before the light changes. The traffic suddenly stops before you completely clear the intersection. Your attention is distracted because you see, in your peripheral vision, a delivery van bearing down on you in the cross-street. The van driver, who is behind schedule, and perhaps is an aggressive city driver anyway, is busy watching the yellow light cycle of your signal, hoping to catch his green light without having to stop. Or alternatively, he sees the blockage start to clear again and he assumes you will be out of the way before he gets there. But your City Safety kicked in, and you are sitting there stopped until the car decides you've had enough time to gather your wits. Maybe you'd think that 1.5 seconds is too long in this case, certainly 2 or 3 seconds would be.<p>2. You are traveling in the right-hand lane of a city boulevard, and you turn right into the parking lot of a strip mall. You are momentarily distracted while you quickly scan the building signs for the Radio Shack or whatever you came for. But the driver turning right just in front of you stops cold for a second, to survey the parking lot himself - oblivious of cars behind him that need to get out of the street. Again your City Safety kicks in. It holds you in place for tick...tick...tick while the third and fourth cars behind you are leaning on their horns, trying to get out of the traffic lanes and hopefully not having crashes themselves.<p>I think these kinds of scenarios are the basis of 1.5 seconds - it's a compromise and it won't be right for every situation. Remember, Volvo is not guaranteeing you that you will not hit anyone else - they are telling you that an accident will be avoided or minimized if you're not paying attention. If you don't react and take control within 1.5 seconds, then the car will move and you'll bump - too bad but it's softer than the bump you avoided. If you are in active control (braking/steering), the City Safety will supposedly not react at all.<p>As you may have heard, there is a large segment of drivers who are annoyed at the very thought of intervention safety (just as many were - and many still are - annoyed by the lower tech concepts of seat belts, air bags, no-kids-riding-in-the-pickup-bed, and so on). There are already complaints on this forum that City Safety is for idiots. That is a fair point, but anyone who doesn't admit to being an idiot driver, on occasion, is a liar.<p>If my City Safety ever kicks in, I'll be red-faced and I'll try to learn from my mistake. Not likely I'll complain to Volvo that they didn't take longer to release the brakes so I could rejoin the in-control driver population.<br>
 

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Re: (jhalbert)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jhalbert</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Arguably, even 1.5 seconds of not being able to move the car could become dangerous. Consider a couple of very possible scenarios:<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Does the system actually lock the driver out of doing anything with the car for 1.5 seconds?<p>I don't understand why if the car decides that it needs to brake, that it doesn't just keep the brakes applied just a bit longer for the driver to grasp the situation OR until either the driver touches the brakes OR the accelerator. If the car activates the brakes but within .001 seconds I hit the gas, then the car should immediately go. As soon as any pressure is on the brake or accelerator, shouldn't the system immediately get out of the drivers way? Assuming it can do that, I don't see how keeping the brakes applied just a bit longer after an auto activation could hurt. In all your situations, I'd think everything would have been fine.<p>I agree the test itself doesn't lend itself well to real world scenarios.<br>
 

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Re: (pattyweb)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>pattyweb</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Does the system actually lock the driver out of doing anything with the car for 1.5 seconds?<br>...<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I spent some time looking through the owner's manual (I don't have the car yet, I downloaded the PDF manual from the Volvo site). The City Safety section did not seem to make clear what, if anything, would cancel the brake application. However, it is clear that the system will not engage in the first place if the driver is actively controlling the brake or the throttle. So it could be that those actions will also cancel the auto-braking once applied. I'd have to experiment with it once I have the car, though setting up the experiment will be interesting - I'm certainly not about to experiment with any solid object in front. Some kind of foam-board panel set up on cones might work, but almost anything could scratch the paint.<p>The experiment would involve deliberately punching the accelerator <B>immediately</B> after the brakes are auto-applied. Maybe set up two panels left & right, to swing out and away, like a cowboy busting through a saloon door in a spaghetti Western! Still would need to mount some extra protection bar across the front of the car to keep the painted nose from scraping the panels.<p>Even if that were to work, i.e. cancel the 1.5 second delay, it doesn't mean that a cancelable longer delay is a better design. If the user instructions are to deliberately unlock the brakes by pressing the accelerator, all kinds of unfortunate outcomes could result - particularly with the driver in a confused or embarrassed state after the auto-braking event. If the instructions are to unlock by actively pressing the brake pedal first, then resume normal driving, that might be better, but the long delay might still be too confusing. Consider that the driver may, in many cases, not be the owner, and/or may not have received or understood the "user training". (Sometimes I think I'm one of the few remaining souls who actually reads instruction manuals). Someone with no experience or knowledge of the City Safety feature has the car abruptly stop, then for several seconds it won't go anywhere. The natural reaction, especially under pressure of traffic all around, might be to press the accelerator to the floor in an attempt to make the darn car move along - not good when the brakes finally do release.<p>The more I think about it, the more I think there is no universally applicable "correct" behavior from the car - especially with such a new and unfamiliar feature. Someday, when many more cars have this kind of feature, a different control paradigm might evolve because drivers can be expected to be familiar with this aspect.<p>There is also the unfortunate reality that legions of accident lawyers will be ready to pounce the first time an accident occurs where City Safety did or did not activate, or the driver claims it activated incorrectly, or in a confusing manner, etc. etc. It is a fairly well known issue that the development small civil (General Aviation) aircraft has been severely curtailed for decades, due to the legal risks of introducing anything new. So despite 1,000,000 warnings that City Safety, Active Cruise Control, BLIS and Driver Collision Warning are no substitutes for proper driver control and reactions, there will no doubt be lawyers who claim in court that such systems contributed to an accident, even in cases where they actually reduced accident severity or saved someone's life.<p>I'm willing to bet that the designers have struggled with all these questions more earnestly than we have, and that the present configuration is their best considered compromise, at the present state of the technology.
 

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Re: (C130)

C130:<p>Diito... My wife and I attended our local Volvo dealership for the MY2010 XC60 demo by Volvo. We took the city drive/save demo and was impressed also. ...and yes, as another person posted, after the car is halted abruptly the car will move forward. The whole idea here is that if the driver is distracted and car would likely collide with a car in front the XC60 will brake aggressively which should grab the driver's attention -- and if not the impact will be significantly lessened.<p>I drove the car toward the imaginary car's rear at a steady pace of between 9 and 15 mph. I believe the auto braking is operative between 2 and 19 mph.<p>We liked the XC60 and will be seriously considering this model to replace our MY2003 XC70.<p>Being one of the first 25 people to sign up for the demo we walked away with a very nice orange/black duffle bag packed with cool safety stuff.<p>The diamond cut Silver Stone/Dark Grey two tone 19" Achilles wheels looked awesome with the terra Bronze Metallic body color. The demo XC60 was loaded with ALL the options and the backlit Aluminium instep plates had lots of WOW factor. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"><p>There are some good price incentives at this time if ordered by Mar 31 2009. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"><p>I did not like the Front Bumper Bar. At the demo there were two XC60s to view and one did not have the Front Bumper Bar and this made the front look so much nicer IMO.<p>The two tone seats Espresso/Biege were a nice touch, and the leather quality was soft to touch and felt thickish/solid.
 

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Re: (barrysharp)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>barrysharp</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>...The diamond cut Silver Stone/Dark Grey two tone 19" Achilles wheels looked awesome with the terra Bronze Metallic body color....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Unfortunately, it seems that these wheels are not being made available as an order option. You have to buy them outright as an accessory, for about $2700/set MSRP. Do you have any different information?<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>...There are some good price incentives at this time if ordered by Mar 31 2009. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"><br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Could you explain what incentives you know about? Thanks.
 

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Re: (jhalbert)

jhalbert:<p>The 19" Achilles Wheel Package is offered as part of the "Three Special Introductory Offers" (valid until Mar 31 2009)<p>These three are<p>1. Exterior Styling Package - Front bumper bar, Rear skid plate and Side scuff plates ($1,275 installed)<br>2. Interior Styling Package - Sport pedals, Sport floor mats, 4x Alu instep plates ($550 installed)<br>3. 19" Achilles Wheel Package - diamond cut wheels in Silver Stone and Dark Grey ($2,500 + tires + installation)<p>and in addition to above there's another two incentives... (again, valid until Mar 31 2009)<p>4. Panoramic moonroof ($1200) is being thrown in for free.<br>5. Free Sirius Satellite Radio subscription for car's life (regardless of XC60 ownership)<p>I'm thinking OSD and I'm currently enquiring if the 19" wheels can be added at the FDC. The OSD program provides a much better choice of options and they aren't locked into packages as stated in the US sales brochure.<p>With OSD one has the choice of specific options that are only offered as part of a package at the US dealerships. For example...<p>1.The "Technology package" ($2700) that includes the Nav system, Premium sound, DVD-maps for North America and Rear park assist.<br>2. Homelink by itself<br>3. Power operated taolgate by iteself<br>4. PCC by itself<br>5. Classic wood steering wheel<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by barrysharp at 3:51 AM 3-30-2009</i>
 

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Re: (barrysharp)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>barrysharp</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>1. Exterior Styling Package - Front bumper bar, Rear skid plate and Side scuff plates ($1,275 installed)</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Like you, I don't particularly favor the look of the front bumper bar. Nor the rear skid plate on most colors. The scuff plates along the side, I think, do look good especially on the darker colored cars, so I may go for that individually.<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>2. Interior Styling Package - Sport pedals, Sport floor mats, 4x Alu instep plates ($550 installed)<br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Nothing wrong with those, but believe I'll skip the expense.<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>3. 19" Achilles Wheel Package - diamond cut wheels in Silver Stone and Dark Grey ($2,500 + tires + installation)</TD></TR></TABLE><br>That's close to the MSRP I believe. I really wish they would allow a substitution for the factory wheels & tires; that would bring the cost way down. For example, an XC90 3.2 can be optioned with 19" wheels & tires for $1095 - far more reasonable.<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>and in addition to above there's another two incentives... (again, valid until Mar 31 2009)<br>4. Panoramic moonroof ($1200) is being thrown in for free.<br>5. Free Sirius Satellite Radio subscription for car's life (regardless of XC60 ownership)</TD></TR></TABLE><br>The Sirius deal might expire, but I wonder if they'll actually start charging for the moonroof. I think all the US cars are getting them put in at the factory, so do you think they'll start adding $1200 to the price in April? I'd be surprised.<p>My order form (I put down the deposit at the tour event) also gives a $300.00 credit towards accessories - I think that's a dealer thing but I'm not sure. I will probably use it towards the side scuff plates or the attractive new wood/leather steering wheel (available in the next month or two in Beige or Charcoal, with or without aluminum accent).<p>I'm a little envious of your OSD plan - because the choice of paint colors is also greater on OSD. You can choose any of the European colors, like you see on the volvocars.co.uk website. I really would have preferred one of the two light blue colors (one was in the printed brochure) but the US cars cannot be ordered with them - I don't understand the logic of this. If I do this new-car thing again (if Volvo is still a going concern in a few years) I may plan for the OSD.<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by jhalbert at 9:15 PM 3-29-2009</i>
 

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Re: (barrysharp)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>barrysharp</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. Interior Styling Package - Sport pedals, Sport floor mats, 4x Alu instep plates ($550 installed)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I saw an accessory brochure from the UK that had a sport steering wheel in beige or off-black, with aluminum accent (looked to have a thicker grip) and a sport gearshift, same colors, different stiching pattern, perhaps a bit thicker also.
 

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Re: (jhalbert)

Classic wood for the interior can only be ordered via the OSD program.<p>I really suspect the Panoramic moonroof and the Sirius subscription will continue as incentives beyond Mar 31, 2009.<p>Accessories obtained at the OSD Factory Delivery Center are installed free and there's no Sales tax imposed.
 
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