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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just picked up my car from Volvo service. The CEL was on 2-4 days and off 2-4 days for about five months, beginning about a month or so after getting the beta fix for s-s-s. This was the second CEL episode. About a year ago, they replaced all five injectors and that took care of the CEL (I was getting misfire codes). The car always ran fine after a slightly rough warmup during both CEL periods. This time, after checking codes, doing a cylinder leakage test and a compression test (no faults found), they cleaned the intake system, valves and ports. Told me they had to decarb. I was shocked. Only 12,750 miles. They explained that the problem was the crappy gas we get in Oregon. Doesn't burn fully or cleanly and leaves some sort of residue. They suggested staying away from premium grade gas, which is the biggest problem. This was a warranty claim which otherwise would have been $500-$600. I have no confidence that it won't happen again. Volvo is blaming the gas and said other manufacturers are having similar problems, but it seems to me that they didn't properly test the cars against US gas. I would love to get a reaction from someone who knows a lot more about this stuff than me.
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

well you ain't had a VW where you gotta take off the intake manifold and pressure wash it cause the ports are clogged 85% and no VW don't warranty it either, you either drive a slow car with poor MPG or you do it yourself or you pay for it, I'm sure other cars have the same problems. My VW was a turbo diesel if that matters.
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

Is the gas in Oregon really any crappier than elsewhere? I'd also be suspicious that decarbonizing the intake would be caused by bad gas. The T5 is a direct-injection motor, the only thing in the intake manifold should be air. But, they're not likely to feed you this kind of line unless they see it often. Surely there are other Oregonians (?) who can pipe up.<p>Have they ruled out leaking turbo seals?<p>Tom.
 

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Re: check engine light (tmtalpey)

don't know about your t5, but my injectors are in the intake manifold. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: check engine light (Oldman)

Barely. All right I am misusing "direct" but this is not a throttle body system, and I don't see how his manifold itself requires decarbonizing due to bad fuel. Do you?<p>Tom.
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

<I> Told me they had to decarb. I was shocked. Only 12,750 miles. They explained that the problem was the crappy gas we get in Oregon. </I> <p>I have had a number of fuel injected cars and I have never had the intake <I>decarded</I> I guess Oregon has some pretty bad gas...<p>~180,000 '86 SAAB 900<br>~135,000 '86 Mustang<br>~130,000 '95 Ford Contour<br>~100,000 '00 Mustang<br>~20,000 '05 V50
 

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Re: check engine light (tmtalpey)

What I've seen in the past is the injectors shoot the gasoline at the "Back side" of the intake valves and a carbon & gasoline "Gum" deposit builds up and kills the air/fuel flow into the cylinders. The face of the valve head inside the combustion chamber is fine. There may be a small amount of carbon buildup around the intake valve seat as well. I suspect the intake manifold is fine and the intake ports in the head are the problem.<br> Besides the cleaning mentioned here getting the car out on the highway regularly and "Blowing the Cobs" out of it as Our Dad's used to say is about the only cure. My normal commute is 58 to 59 miles one-way according to My S40 so My engine gets good & warm twice a day. Short trips, lots of idling, stop-and-go driving, especially in cold weather allows the engine to cool off and not burn these deposits off. <br> Son has a '93 Ford Lightning with 165,000 miles on it. It starts running not as well about every year or so and holds less vacuum at idle. Son runs a can of GM Top Engine cleaner thru the engine to clean the valves, ports, and combustion chambers. He has the intake manifolds off it right now to replace a manifold gasket and the ports & valves look fine. He ran the last can thru it about 3 weeks ago, and the can before that about a year ago.
 

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Re: check engine light (POWERSTROKE)

The VW problem is caused by sulfer in the fuel, mixing with hot crankcase blowby and cool EGR all of which gets put back in the intake and the deposits are in the intake manifold where there is NO fuel as a TDI is a direct inject engine.<p>I did not find the EGR on my Volvo so I don't know if it has one, maybe it has the ports cast into the head <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/confused.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: check engine light (POWERSTROKE)

My thanks to everyone for the information and comments. POWERSTROKE, your explanation pretty much supports what the service advisor told me. He talked about a residue building up, particularly in the intake ports. It seems that would explain the rough idle at warmup, maybe also the slight sluggishness when accelerating from a stop. You also are right about the short trips and stop and go driving. I do a lot of that. The car has not had the CEL come back on since Monday afternoon and has been noticeably smoother. I will try to get some longer highway trips on a regular basis to fully warm the engine and burn off deposits. Service rep has been insisting for a year that Oregon gas is the pits, especially premium, so I will switch to mid range fuel. <p>About GM Top Engine cleaner ---- I recall the manual saying not to use additives, but your experience seems to be positive. Anyone else out there with experience using something like that? Thanks again.<br>
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>alderaan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You also are right about the short trips and stop and go driving. I do a lot of that.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>You didn't say that! Cowabunga! Give that girl some air and your problems will be a lot less.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">About GM Top Engine cleaner ---- I recall the manual saying not to use additives, but your experience seems to be positive. Anyone else out there with experience using something like that?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nooo don't do that. At the very most I'd suggest a bottle of Techron injector cleaner from time to time, which is positively wonderful stuff on deposits, but even that shouldn't really be necessary in a low-mileage engine.<p>A long time ago in a galaxy far away, I was taught to take a bottle of ATF, remove the air filter from a V8, and slooowly pour it down the 4-barrel to burn off these kinds of deposits. And in nineteen-somethy-something it actually worked. Not today!<p>Tom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: check engine light (tmtalpey)

Thanks, Tom. I guess I have a good game plan now. The only problem left is the s-s-s. I got the beta fix last year and didn't have any s-s-s attacks after that, but it was after the weather turned cooler. Waiting to see what happens when it heats up in a few months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: check engine light (alderaan)

Update (in case anyone experiences similar problems): The CEL is back. Service rep is pretty sure that he will have to replace the injectors again (they did that about a year ago) because they just cleaned the valves and ports and the codes were still "misfire - multiple cyliners" and misfire codes for cylinders 3,4,5. I admitted that I had been running premium gas and he explained once again how Oregon, Washington, and two other states have inadequate fuel quality standards and that's why I need to switch to regular. He said they are telling everyone to run regular gas. Something about how it ignites more easily or burns cleaner. According to him, Saab and VW (the dealership also sells VWs) and other makes are also experiencing gas quality problems around here. Turbos seem most impacted. Volvo has been trying to get the state to adopt more up to date fuel quality standards. Oregon is getting closer to adopting California emissions standards, but he said those standards couldn't work in Oregon unless the fuel standards are fixed. Anyway, he will discuss my car with the regional tech rep and get back to me tomorrow or Monday. Car continues to run fine. Any T5 owners in Oregon or Washington with a similar tale?
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

also have a 2004.5 T5 and live in Oregon. Sounds like we have had the same problems. I have had the injectors replaced twice. I use the other dealer in pdx and was told the same thing about the gas. I tried reg. gas, but felt it did not make a difference with the sss problem and switched back to prem.
 

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Re: check engine light (alderaan)

This is pretty incredible. I'd love to hear more input on this maybe IPD has a comment?<p>Anyway, it's true that regular is more volatile and burns more readily than premium. Whether that translates to fewer deposits isn't clear though, usually that's a function of detergents and other formulations.<p>If I were you, I would research alternative gasoline brands available in your area, and seriously look into a regular program of using Techron. The best (cheapest) source of it I have found is Walmart, it comes in two sizes, I'd recommend the small bottle that treats 10 gallons. I use it no more than a couple of times a year, but it can be used every fillup, if you're so inclined.<p>Tom.
 
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