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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've noticed recently (within the last week) that when my <I>R</I> is cold, the clutch engagement is anything but smooth. For lack of a better term, the clutch "chatters" when the power is just beginning to make it's way to the wheels. The car shudders violently enough to elicit comments from the peanut gallery, which is both embarrassing (clients) and annoying (family and friends). After a few first-gear starts the clutch is buttery smooth again. The car has clocked only 20,000 miles. Old faithful, my Peugeot 405S (<I>stop laughing!!!</I>), didn't exhibit this behavior until it reached 140K. Is this problem caused by a common wear item (throw-out bearing perhaps?) and, if so, should this be an easy warranty claim on a car with such low mileage? I am VERY easy on my clutch. In fact, I have never replaced a clutch on any car I've owned thus far.<p>TIA - Tryg<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by RainyS60R at 2:20 AM 5-30-2006</i>
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (RainyS60R)

The fact that this only occurs when cold, eliminates many things such as abuse related or contamination of the disc. I would make it abundantly clear to the dealer that this only occurs when cold so they do not start going down the wrong diagnostic path.<p>I suspect something binding on engagement. Is it also difficult to get into lower gears when cold? Do you hear any bearing noise with the clutch depressed? Could it be that something else is binding in the drive train, and is making the clutch chatter?<p>This may well be the disc binding on the input shaft for which there is a TNN out. The symptom of this has typically been difficult lower gear engagement WHEN COLD. The same type of binding could lead to chatter however.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (rogersampson)

Mine does ONE, two at the most. However this started the day I installed the powerflex bushings.<br>It goes away after a block and seems not to do it now that the summer is here so I'm chalking mine up to the more solid bushings transmitting noise when cold and hard.<br>Yours, I'm not sure
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (RainyS60R)

Thanks for the advice - the clutch is quiet as can be, except for the rattling of things in the car as it shakes.<p>- Tryg
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (RainyS60R)

Rainy,<p>My R started doing the exact same thing after they replaced the transmission and angle-gear 2 months ago (24k miles). It was happening on cold mornings for the first 2-3 engagements (in reverse or first) and then would go away. Now that the weather is warm (>60F in the mornings) it's not doing it. We'll see if it returns in the fall.<p>p.s. I used to own a 405, good car for the $$, I didn't have many problems at all (besides finding a reliable mechanic around here). Peugeot is making some great cars these days, but I doubt we'll see them back here anytime soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (mjv2744)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mjv2744</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any update on this mine does it also</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Naturally, immediately after I complained about the problem it went back into hibernation mode. I am waiting for it to return so I can take the car to the dealer with a well-defined "do this" set of instructions. My dealer likes to keep my car for several days before telling me that they cannot reproduce the problem. Arghhhh...<p>I will update you when and if I take it to the dealer.<p>- Tryg
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (RainyS60R)

Bumping this one back to the top.<p>Anyone found a solution here?<br>I have the same issue and I'm hoping it will reproduce for the dealer while its in for 30k service.<p>Only when cold, only the first 2-3 engagements. Nothing at ANY other time.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (smolvar)

LOL, Magoon's car is in right now for this very fix. Not sure it's going to be successful. <p>There is a TNN out for a clutch damper valve replacement, that gets installed on the clutch hydraulic line. May help..
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (Needsdecaf)

My clutch had the same behavior. I replaced a worn upper engine mount (the round style) with a new one. The problem went away. 35K miles at the time of replacement.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (JAGMAN)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JAGMAN</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My clutch had the same behavior. I replaced a worn upper engine mount (the round style) with a new one. The problem went away. 35K miles at the time of replacement. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I saw in a previous thread that Sue E had this issue as well and a new upper mount did the trick. <p>Curious to hear Magoon's story as it doesn't look like anyone really needed flywheel/clutch/TO/pressureplate work.<p>Is this "Clutch damper valve" similar to BMW's "Clutch delay valve"? If so I've heard nothing but good things about removing it completely from the system as its primary job is to restrict hydraulic pressure for "more smooth engagements" whilst causing a host of other feel and chatter problems.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (JAGMAN)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL, Magoon's car is in right now for this very fix. Not sure it's going to be successful.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Stay tuned.....just picked it up this morning.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a TNN out for a clutch damper valve replacement, that gets installed on the clutch hydraulic line. May help..</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Fat chance on getting this fix unless your tranny is out for the input shaft lube or a new clutch install. Trust me on this one. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JAGMAN</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My clutch had the same behavior. I replaced a worn upper engine mount (the round style) with a new one. The problem went away. 35K miles at the time of replacement. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's what Keystone did to mine as well. Removed the IPD round and installed an OEM square. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Fat chance on getting this fix unless your tranny is out for the input shaft lube or a new clutch install. Trust me on this one. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>So I'm assuming this item is internal and not the delay valve on the hydraulic line mentioned above?<br>....Don't have VADIS on this mac to look it up, booo.<br>
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (smolvar)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>smolvar</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I'm assuming this item is internal and not the delay valve on the hydraulic line mentioned above?<br>....Don't have VADIS on this mac to look it up, booo.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Based on the TNN copy I have, looks to be internal based on the diagram and since it also mentions "when replacing clutch disk" or something similar.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Based on the TNN copy I have, looks to be internal based on the diagram and since it also mentions "when replacing clutch disk" or something similar.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks for the info. Would you mind posting the TNN copy here, if its easy?<br>Nice to have this stuff all in one thread when it happens again <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (RainyS60R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>RainyS60R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the clutch "chatters" when the power is just beginning to make it's way to the wheels. . . . Is this problem caused by a common wear item (throw-out bearing perhaps?) and, if so, should this be an easy warranty claim on a car with such low mileage? I am VERY easy on my clutch. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>"Easy" on the clutch as in allowing lots of slip during engagement? Shifts like that will burn off an organic clutch in no time. Chatter (you are correct with the term) is caused mainly by 1) glazed flywheel faces, or 2) glazed friction surfaces, which are caused by high temperatures usually from slippage. Occurs when cold (i.e., first few shifts of the day). Goes away with heat. It happens, and not just on Rs. Clutches are wear items and some dealers will refuse to replace them regardless, but you can always try. If it were the throwout bearing, you'd hear squealing/chirping every time you pushed the clutch in and let it out. Fluid contamination on the clutch facing would result in excessive slip, not so much chatter. Many drivers - not just Volvo drivers - wear their clutches out "early" from slipping them too much trying to achieve automatic transmission-type smooth shifts, especially if they do most of their driving in city environments with lots of stop-and-go.<p>FWIW, if you think your clutch is less than refined, go drive a Mustang <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (JayDub)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JayDub</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Chatter (you are correct with the term) is caused mainly by 1) glazed flywheel faces, or 2) glazed friction surfaces, which are caused by high temperatures usually from slippage. Occurs when cold (i.e., first few shifts of the day). Goes away with heat. It happens, and not just on Rs. <p> Many drivers - not just Volvo drivers - wear their clutches out "early" from slipping them too much trying to achieve automatic transmission-type smooth shifts, especially if they do most of their driving in city environments with lots of stop-and-go.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks for the rundown. I agree with your analysis but for the 30k I've owned this car, there haven't been any "slipping" incidents. <p>I have an Acura with 286k miles on its second clutch, no chatter.<br>also a Nissan with 161k miles on the original clutch, no chatter.<br>also a BMW with 42k miles on the original clutch, no chatter.<p>It is wrong for me to expect that my Volvo with 30k shouldnt chatter when the cars above, and every other car I've owned since 16 has been a manual, yet not one had a clutch that chattered.
 

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Re: Chattering clutch engagement when cold (smolvar)

Men, what a relief! I thought I was going crazy, so I kept my mouth shut. But my clutch too, at 30K miles (2004 S60R) chatters for the first few engagements if it sits outside in cold temps. It just started doing it this year, though. <br>If I have it in the garage overnight, no chatter. But if it sits outside after a 12 hour shift in 30 degrees or less weather, it is anything but smooth.<br>I thought it might be a motor mount or transmission mount, but that never made much sense to me considering the problem is temperature dependent.<br>It will be interesting to see what the real fix is.
 
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