Charging system issue need help urgently

411 Views 7 Replies 4 Participants Last post by ZZZZZZZ, 5 mo ago

Turbo the World

Hello all,

I am helping a buddy with his 2005 S60R AW50/51. Now I need help lol.

(NOTE: this is NOT for my 2007 S60R)

He had a "Power System Service Urgent" notification. I diagnosed it as a faulty alternator. While the alternator was worn out same issue, so with free exchanges and it taking only 50-60 minutes a shot we tried 3 in total. Strange but I've seen it before on my car getting multiple lemon alternators, the current one is working as intended EXCEPT...

The system is only seeing 13.5-13.7 volts.
I connected an autel two way scan tool and Vida dice and performed alternator quick tests with both. Now the alternator failed to pass but I noticed that the "Battery Tempature" is registering as 1,800,000,000° which is obviously incorrect and it appears that the car will sandbag charging to 13.5-13.7v in this instance. Voltage drop across the charging system according to the tests laid out in Vida and Alldata are within spec.

So next was a web search and trying to find the sensor. The internet turned up that they were housed in the mirrors, well they check out vs a new sensor and they are not the issue. (Unless I am wrong). (Comparable resistances)

I then used the Autel scan tool to hunt for the sensors to check the reading. They talk to the CEM and I found a sensor is tied to each door module. The DDM sensor is giving an error and the PDM is only saying (°C) with no value tied to it. But no error on the PDM.

I have no saved DTC's to go off of, no freeze frames.

Am I barking up the right tree here? And am I looking at the correct sensors? Are they in the mirrors in the 2005 P2R.

My next step tomorrow is to check the harness supply voltage to the sensors.

As a side note we did try different batteries, both about ~800 CCA
Both batteries are only 1 year old, contacts were cleaned on batteries and terminals.

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ZZZZZZZ

· #2 · 5 mo ago

Yes - the ambient outside sensors are in the mirrors. I had one go bad on my 05. Curious - does the build spec on VIDA specify the alternator amperage? Mine did - I ran across it the other day resetting the service light nd clearing a CEL for a MAF issue. I know there are a few ratings and wonder if it's too low or too high for the car. Further - is the battery new? For grins, try a different battery too, and do the cables taped together with no power for 15 minutes reset trick to see if the hard reboot clears it?

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bencrabtree27

· #3 · 5 mo ago

ZZZZZZZ said:
Yes - the ambient outside sensors are in the mirrors. I had one go bad on my 05. Curious - does the build spec on VIDA specify the alternator amperage? Mine did - I ran across it the other day resetting the service light nd clearing a CEL for a MAF issue. I know there are a few ratings and wonder if it's too low or too high for the car. Further - is the battery new? For grins, try a different battery too, and do the cables taped together with no power for 15 minutes reset trick to see if the hard reboot clears it?

When I was trying to find my engine whine (stupid inner alt bearing) I bought a used one off Erie, there ARE certain amperages, at least on my 04. Don't quote me, but I am pretty sure its the 140 amp, not the 160.

These cars electrical systems can drive you nuts, my old S60 was acting all sorts of funny and a new battery fixed it, VR was acting funny, and a new nut and bolt on the negative did the trick (I might have over tightened the factory nut and thought a zip tie would be tight enough 😬)

I agree with @ZZZZZZZ. Try a new battery make sure terminals are tight, then maybe try a new alternator. Erie might have a few in stock, and they will confirm amperage with you. $75 and lifetime warranty - I'll take that over a "new" cheapy. The swap isn't terrible. I didn't have to move intercooler I had JUST enough room to twist and lightly slide it out. Maybe try to locate the main grounds and make sure they aren't in need.

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volvogod

· #4 · 5 mo ago

Here is info if you do decide to replace the outside temp sensor. LH temp sensor for ECM. RH temp sensor for Climate and DIM display of the outside temp.
The mirror temp sensor is the round bump on the bottom side of the mirror, #6 in parts pic. The YouTube video shows how to remove the mirror and door panel. Ignore the mirror motor replacement. You are replacing the temp sensor and white pig tail temp wires that goes into the green connector. It does not matter which temp wire goes back into the correct connector hole of the green connector.
(683) Volvo S60 Door Mirror Disassembly and Replacement - (S60, S80, V70, XC70) - YouTube

6 Sensor, L.H., temperature sensor, left 1.00 31104009
CH -314999
Sensor, L.H., temperature sensor, left 1.00 30634727
CH 315000-
Sensor, R.H., temperature sensor, right 1.00 31104010
CH -314999
Sensor, R.H., temperature sensor, right 1.00 30634728
CH 315000-

Outside temperature sensor

The outside temperature sensor detects the temperature in the surrounding air. The signal is used by the engine control module (ECM) as a substitute value in the event of a fault in certain components or functions and to control certain diagnostic functions.

The sensor is a negative temperature coefficient (NTC) type which is supplied with power from the control module (signal) and is grounded in the control module.
The resistance in the sensor, which provides a signal between 0-5 V, changes depending on the outside temperature. Low temperatures produce high voltage (high resistance), high temperatures produce low voltage (low resistance).

The outside temperature sensor is positioned in the left door mirror.

The engine control module (ECM) can diagnose the outside temperature sensor. The sensor value can be read off using VIDA.

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Reactions: 1

Turbo the World

Discussion Starter · #5 · 5 mo ago

ZZZZZZZ said:
Yes - the ambient outside sensors are in the mirrors. I had one go bad on my 05. Curious - does the build spec on VIDA specify the alternator amperage? Mine did - I ran across it the other day resetting the service light nd clearing a CEL for a MAF issue. I know there are a few ratings and wonder if it's too low or too high for the car. Further - is the battery new? For grins, try a different battery too, and do the cables taped together with no power for 15 minutes reset trick to see if the hard reboot clears it?

I will try hard resetting computers, we tried both alternator sizes (I have successfully run both sizes in my R in the past) and the two batteries we tried were one year old ish and they function and test fine.

Thanks for commenting 🙂

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Reactions: 1

Turbo the World

Discussion Starter · #6 · 5 mo ago

bencrabtree27 said:
When I was trying to find my engine whine (stupid inner alt bearing) I bought a used one off Erie, there ARE certain amperages, at least on my 04. Don't quote me, but I am pretty sure its the 140 amp, not the 160.

These cars electrical systems can drive you nuts, my old S60 was acting all sorts of funny and a new battery fixed it, VR was acting funny, and a new nut and bolt on the negative did the trick (I might have over tightened the factory nut and thought a zip tie would be tight enough 😬)

I agree with @ZZZZZZZ. Try a new battery make sure terminals are tight, then maybe try a new alternator. Erie might have a few in stock, and they will confirm amperage with you. $75 and lifetime warranty - I'll take that over a "new" cheapy. The swap isn't terrible. I didn't have to move intercooler I had JUST enough room to twist and lightly slide it out. Maybe try to locate the main grounds and make sure they aren't in need.

In original post we have tested with know good batteries and checked a few alternators.

Thank you for commenting 😀

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Turbo the World

Discussion Starter · #7 · 5 mo ago

volvogod said:
Here is info if you do decide to replace the outside temp sensor. LH temp sensor for ECM. RH temp sensor for Climate and DIM display of the outside temp.
The mirror temp sensor is the round bump on the bottom side of the mirror, #6 in parts pic. The YouTube video shows how to remove the mirror and door panel. Ignore the mirror motor replacement. You are replacing the temp sensor and white pig tail temp wires that goes into the green connector. It does not matter which temp wire goes back into the correct connector hole of the green connector.
(683) Volvo S60 Door Mirror Disassembly and Replacement - (S60, S80, V70, XC70) - YouTube

View attachment 178223

6 Sensor, L.H., temperature sensor, left 1.00 31104009
CH -314999
Sensor, L.H., temperature sensor, left 1.00 30634727
CH 315000-
Sensor, R.H., temperature sensor, right 1.00 31104010
CH -314999
Sensor, R.H., temperature sensor, right 1.00 30634728
CH 315000-

Outside temperature sensor

The outside temperature sensor detects the temperature in the surrounding air. The signal is used by the engine control module (ECM) as a substitute value in the event of a fault in certain components or functions and to control certain diagnostic functions.

The sensor is a negative temperature coefficient (NTC) type which is supplied with power from the control module (signal) and is grounded in the control module.
The resistance in the sensor, which provides a signal between 0-5 V, changes depending on the outside temperature. Low temperatures produce high voltage (high resistance), high temperatures produce low voltage (low resistance).

The outside temperature sensor is positioned in the left door mirror.

The engine control module (ECM) can diagnose the outside temperature sensor. The sensor value can be read off using VIDA.

Thanks for the great write up, and yeah I looked on alldata and pulled the sensors to test, they appeared to be OK, they have the same resistance as a new unit we had on hand. I am thinking that I need to pull them out and check the pins, maybe corrosion? Also good to know on the temp values, we could put them in the freezer and check the resistance delta vs room temp.

Thank you for commenting 😀

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Reactions: 1

ZZZZZZZ

· #8 · 5 mo ago

That’s a good idea!

Turbo the World said:
Also good to know on the temp values, we could put them in the freezer and check the resistance delta vs room temp.

Thank you for commenting 😀

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Charging system issue need help urgently

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