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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My current whip is a 2013 S60 that I got a couple of years ago as a CPO. I got in when it still was a 7 year-100K mile warranty deal so I'm fortunate enough to still have it under the CPO warranty though the end of this year. It's generally been a great car. Was a leased car before I got it so all the maintenance records were clean and in the clear. I've only had one warranty issue with it ever where they had to replace a faulty alternator around 40K. I've since put around another 50K on it an no other issues. I'm pretty careful with it and change the oil ever 5k despite the it being only required every 10.

About a month ago I noticed a small spot of clear coat starting to flake in the center of the drivers side door. Was a bit annoyed because I've never had a car have an issue with clear coat. I'm pretty dedicated about washing and waxing. Additionally i've never had a car this new either so was pretty blown away. So i took it into the body shop to see what it would take to get it repaired and that's where the questions started...

It became clear that at some point body work was either done on the drivers side door and it was repainted (this is the opinion of two separate body shops) and it was a pretty poor repair. This despite the CPO requirements that the car never should have been in a wreak. I do remember there being a guarantee of some sort that all the provisions around the CPO vehicle requirements were met but i can't find the paper work. I'm a bit concerned to go back to the dealer because it's starting to seem like they maybe fudged a bit to get the car certified. Does any one know if there's a way to reach out to Volvo directly? Or am I stuck dealing with the dealer who it seems like was already lying to me?

Thanks for any guidance or suggestions any of you have. It's a smart community we have here so i feel fortunate to have a place to turn to in a situation like this.
 

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My current whip is a 2013 S60 that I got a couple of years ago as a CPO. I got in when it still was a 7 year-100K mile warranty deal so I'm fortunate enough to still have it under the CPO warranty though the end of this year. It's generally been a great car. Was a leased car before I got it so all the maintenance records were clean and in the clear. I've only had one warranty issue with it ever where they had to replace a faulty alternator around 40K. I've since put around another 50K on it an no other issues. I'm pretty careful with it and change the oil ever 5k despite the it being only required every 10.

About a month ago I noticed a small spot of clear coat starting to flake in the center of the drivers side door. Was a bit annoyed because I've never had a car have an issue with clear coat. I'm pretty dedicated about washing and waxing. Additionally i've never had a car this new either so was pretty blown away. So i took it into the body shop to see what it would take to get it repaired and that's where the questions started...

It became clear that at some point body work was either done on the drivers side door and it was repainted (this is the opinion of two separate body shops) and it was a pretty poor repair. This despite the CPO requirements that the car never should have been in a wreak. I do remember there being a guarantee of some sort that all the provisions around the CPO vehicle requirements were met but i can't find the paper work. I'm a bit concerned to go back to the dealer because it's starting to seem like they maybe fudged a bit to get the car certified. Does any one know if there's a way to reach out to Volvo directly? Or am I stuck dealing with the dealer who it seems like was already lying to me?

Thanks for any guidance or suggestions any of you have. It's a smart community we have here so i feel fortunate to have a place to turn to in a situation like this.
Ok so you ask a lot of questions, let me answer them one at at ime.

1. I don't know the name of the tool, but there's a way you can measure paint thickness. The importance is that a factory paint job and a repaint are never the same depth. So any repaint is indicative of either an accident (replaced / repainted panel) or of a repair.

2. If you can measure the paint thickness (or take it back to those body shops to do so) and get a write up that there's been a repaint, then we can proceed to step 3. Have both bodyshops be very descriptive when outlining where the paint thickness varies (from X to X). And then outlining what they perceive to be the cause. I.E. an accident. You'll need this to move on to step 3.

3. I just helped someone on here force a Volvo Dealership buy back a CPO car that was a "clean car fax". Well apparently either dealer or person owning car before dealer bought at auction had a serious accident. Guy measured paint after noticing some major variances in color (bought at night didn't notice). It became very clear the panels were replaced and repainted (very poorly). Dealer try to play coy and offer a paint warranty. He didn't budge and gave them state law. Forced a refund.

His case is different to yours in that the car had recently been bought and not a nearly 7 year old vehicle. But still, a CPO does call for a vehicle that has never been in an accident. Sadly, Carfax + Auto Check are tools, but not the most accurate. Many body shops and insurance companies don't report to Carfax. Any repairs done in house will never show. Meaning there could be a major accident that never gets reported.

Anyway, go ahead and get the stuff in step 1 and 2 compiled. I'll help you write the Volvo Executives once you have the necessary information. And we'll go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Great advice!

Just got off the customer support chat with Volvo and they suggested taking it to the nearest dealer (that's not the dealer that sold it to me) and calling the warranty company (they provided me the name and number for them) as well. Maybe I could even get that dealer to inspect the car the way you were describing. I'll follow up tomorrow with an update. Thanks for your help.
 

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Great advice!

Just got off the customer support chat with Volvo and they suggested taking it to the nearest dealer (that's not the dealer that sold it to me) and calling the warranty company (they provided me the name and number for them) as well. Maybe I could even get that dealer to inspect the car the way you were describing. I'll follow up tomorrow with an update. Thanks for your help.
Pretty much, we need proof before we can proceed, so Volvo steered you in the right direction. I'd suggest taking either to the original bodyshops or to a different dealing than one who sold vehicle. Selling dealer isn't going to benefit from being upfront and honest. Maybe they knew and maybe they didn't. Either way, Id get a "3rd party" - Volvo Or Another Bodyshop - to give you a conclusive statement. This way the original selling dealer can't muddy waters by claiming everything is fine and dandy.

Once done, we'll email William Casey and Scott Doering. I can't promise they will reply, but if they don't, usually someone higher in the Volvo Food Chain will investigate the mater.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj1x6OK78ThAhVJ1IMKHanjDBQQFjACegQIBRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.volvocars.com%2Fus%2F~%2Fmedia%2Fus%2Fdownloads%2Fbrochures%2F2017%2Fvolvo-cpo-2017-brochure-v1.pdf%3Fla%3Den-us&usg=AOvVaw1oUzyaPfo44_COkp1Tl8aF

There's the CPO brochure. Let me tell you that the CPO program has been abused by many dealers. Where they'd slap a CPO without thoroughly checking the car. I had issues on my car, and some cosmetic, that definitely would have been repaired if properly inspected. Of course, they CPO'd it and sent out the door. I bought from afar and had shipped, so didn't get to catch those items. Nothing major on cosmetic, but like a small hole on door arm rest. Some curb rash on bumper. Stuff that "should have gotten done" but of course dealers conveniently overlook to avoid having to spend the money.

None the less, your car should not have been in an accident. So when you get back to me, well work on resolving the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's interesting because I thought I knew the CPO stuff well and I caught them trying to push the car on to me with stuff like your describing unaddressed (small scratch marks in the leather on the back seat, couple tires that were questionable). Probably should have been a redflag for me but they fixed the issues and didn't add anymore to the price so i thought no harm no foul. Clearly i didn't catch everything.
 

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It's interesting because I thought I knew the CPO stuff well and I caught them trying to push the car on to me with stuff like your describing unaddressed (small scratch marks in the leather on the back seat, couple tires that were questionable). Probably should have been a redflag for me but they fixed the issues and didn't add anymore to the price so i thought no harm no foul. Clearly i didn't catch everything.
What is not known is "if" the door was repainted (2 body shops say yes) is why?
I see the word "wreak" in your initial post. It could have been a good paint scratch that needed to be addressed.
I would advise to keep your gun in your holster until you find out. :)
 

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What is not known is "if" the door was repainted (2 body shops say yes) is why?
I see the word "wreak" in your initial post. It could have been a good paint scratch that needed to be addressed.
I would advise to keep your gun in your holster until you find out. :)
Very easy way to see how and where the paint varies by measuring its thickness. I HIGHLY doubt a dealer would repaint the whole door over a scratch, unless it was a very large and one. Either way, as I suggested to OP, have the paint measured by the body shops and write up an opinion as to how extensive the repairs appear.

Far as the CPO, dealers are notorious it seems for overlooking stuff to get car out the door. Mine arrived with Bumper Rash, Small Hole in Leather on Door Arm rest, and probably a dent. I fixed the dent for $80, because I didn't notice immediately. So arguing that it happened before or during shipping wasn't worth headache. Lived with tiny pin hole in leather.

Complained on bumper rash but was told this is "normal"....Which might be but it should have been addressed. Didn't bother arguing. Bumper has been replaced since then with new bumper, and then that bumper got curb rashed by city screw breaking our driveway. So apparently wasn't worth the effort there either.
 

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It's interesting because I thought I knew the CPO stuff well and I caught them trying to push the car on to me with stuff like your describing unaddressed (small scratch marks in the leather on the back seat, couple tires that were questionable). Probably should have been a redflag for me but they fixed the issues and didn't add anymore to the price so i thought no harm no foul. Clearly i didn't catch everything.
Have paint measured and a report written as to the extent of paint variation. Let us know the findings.
 

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Very easy way to see how and where the paint varies by measuring its thickness. I HIGHLY doubt a dealer would repaint the whole door over a scratch, unless it was a very large and one. Either way, as I suggested to OP, have the paint measured by the body shops and write up an opinion as to how extensive the repairs appear.

Far as the CPO, dealers are notorious it seems for overlooking stuff to get car out the door. Mine arrived with Bumper Rash, Small Hole in Leather on Door Arm rest, and probably a dent. I fixed the dent for $80, because I didn't notice immediately. So arguing that it happened before or during shipping wasn't worth headache. Lived with tiny pin hole in leather.

Complained on bumper rash but was told this is "normal"....Which might be but it should have been addressed. Didn't bother arguing. Bumper has been replaced since then with new bumper, and then that bumper got curb rashed by city screw breaking our driveway. So apparently wasn't worth the effort there either.
Your use of the word "HIGHLY" still means you don't know.
Variation in paint thickness could also indicate a poor respray to correct a large scratch - you don't know.
In addition to paint the OP could remove the door panel and see if the metal skin has been massaged in any way or maybe a replacement door - again, you don't know.
 

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He doesn't know. He likes to make assumptions and extrapolate them into possible worst case scenarios.

A decent scratch could certainly result in the whole door being painted. Maybe even part of the other door and fender. It's called blending.
 

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He doesn't know. He likes to make assumptions and extrapolate them into possible worst case scenarios.

A decent scratch could certainly result in the whole door being painted. Maybe even part of the other door and fender. It's called blending.
Had that happen to me, got a door ding and the other insurance company paid for a paint-less dent repair. It was on the door crease so they couldn't get it perfect and when I went to pick up the car, I said it wasn't satisfactory. The repair shop agreed, said if it was a Toyota then it would be fine, but on a Volvo not acceptable (actual quote). Of course most people wouldn't notice but it would bother me every time I washed my car.

The repair shop, which I used before and does outstanding work, did a complete job and repainted the door and blended so now even I can't tell. I was hesitant at first to do the repaint, but they did such a good job I'm really happy how it came out.
 

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He doesn't know. He likes to make assumptions and extrapolate them into possible worst case scenarios.

A decent scratch could certainly result in the whole door being painted. Maybe even part of the other door and fender. It's called blending.
:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Regardless of if it was a dent or a scratch I shouldn't be dealing with failing clear coat on a CPO car that's just over 6 years old in the center of a door. Sadly we have a blizzard here in Denver today so i won't be making it to the dealer until tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted though.
 

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Your use of the word "HIGHLY" still means you don't know.
Variation in paint thickness could also indicate a poor respray to correct a large scratch - you don't know.
In addition to paint the OP could remove the door panel and see if the metal skin has been massaged in any way or maybe a replacement door - again, you don't know.
Whether a scratch or accident, both you and tech miss the point. The dealer DIDN'T DISCLOSE X damage.... Call me "doomsday scenario", but a dealer with nothing to hide would be honest at point of sale....Which they clearly were not upfront about what led to damage.

Look at the thread where the panels didn't match in color and the car was clearly in an accident of some sort.....Again, dishonesty on the part of dealer.

So no assumption here. Dealer was shady in OP's sale, so the dealer isn't given the benefit of the doubt. It's up to them to now come back and explain what happened and why door and/or other areas of car required a repaint....One that is now pealing of course.
 

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He doesn't know. He likes to make assumptions and extrapolate them into possible worst case scenarios.

A decent scratch could certainly result in the whole door being painted. Maybe even part of the other door and fender. It's called blending.
Neither do you. But what I do know is:

1. Dealer didn't disclose damage at point of sale.

2. Dealer failing to disclose damage conveys a message that there was something to hide.

3. We've seen this happen in prior thread where OP bought a car in the evening, and panels were of different shades after seeing the car in the light of day. And dealer was FORCED to take back car after being confronted it attempted to hide damage, most likely from an accident. And said SHADY dealer has relisted that car with no mention of X accident.

So it happens. Maybe it did here, maybe it didn't. But the fact dealer decided to go about the sale without being honest, removes giving them the benefit of the doubt. Now it's the dealers turn to explain what happened and why it hid X damage that has now resulted in poor paint job peeling.
 

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Regardless of if it was a dent or a scratch I shouldn't be dealing with failing clear coat on a CPO car that's just over 6 years old in the center of a door. Sadly we have a blizzard here in Denver today so i won't be making it to the dealer until tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted though.
Bigger question is if there was damage, how come dealer wasn't up front and honest at point of sale. Conveys a message of there was "something to hide". Now, you have a door that's peeling and a million questions of "why".

I stick to my recommendation. Get paint thickness evaluated either by body shop of choice or another Volvo. And then get a write up of how extensive damage might have been. So you can take this information to Corporate.
 

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Do you know that the dealer knew there was a body repair?

No, you don't.

I love how someone mentions their Elcometer in another thread and now all of a sudden you're a paint thickness expert. Who doesn't understand blending.
 

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Neither do you. But what I do know is:

1. Dealer didn't disclose damage at point of sale.

2. Dealer failing to disclose damage conveys a message that there was something to hide.

3. We've seen this happen in prior thread where OP bought a car in the evening, and panels were of different shades after seeing the car in the light of day. And dealer was FORCED to take back car after being confronted it attempted to hide damage, most likely from an accident. And said SHADY dealer has relisted that car with no mention of X accident.

So it happens. Maybe it did here, maybe it didn't. But the fact dealer decided to go about the sale without being honest, removes giving them the benefit of the doubt. Now it's the dealers turn to explain what happened and why it hid X damage that has now resulted in poor paint job peeling.
Depending on the terms of the CPO, the dealer that sold the car could possibly be on the hook for the paint repair, but that's very unlikely. First thing's first, check the terms.

If the dealer tells the OP to kick rocks because it's been 2 years, I doubt any lawyer that specializes in lemon law or other cases where they regularly sue car sellers would take the OP's case. That's because they would, at the very least, have to prove what you are claiming about the dealer - that they KNEW the car had been in a crash and sold it as a CPO when they shouldn't have. Good luck proving that 2 years later. It might even be too late to sue anyway.

The dealer could just as easily accuse the OP of running the same scam you are accusing the dealer of running. If I were the dealer and I didn't knowingly sell a car as CPO that I shouldn't have, I wouldn't do anything for a buyer that came back 2 years later with the story the OP has.
 

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Do you know that the dealer knew there was a body repair?

No, you don't.

I love how someone mentions their Elcometer in another thread and now all of a sudden you're a paint thickness expert. Who doesn't understand blending.
Where did I claim to be a paint expert? As matter of fact, I repeated OVER AND OVER that OP should take his vehicle to another Volvo or Bodyshop to have the paint inspected and determine extent of damage.....Making me NOT an expert and deferring inspection to an expert.

My gripe is the dealer DID NOT DISCLOSE a repair that should have been forthcoming and caught upon inspection. So....

A: Dealer slapped on CPO and never conducted the inspection. Which we have all agreed is half ass, dishonest, and skirting the intent of Volvo's CPO Program.

B: Intentionally / Unintentionally omitted disclosing damage to Op. Again, onus falls upon dealer under the CPO program.

So Let me guess Tech. In the previous thread where the color match was pathetic, I am sure the dealer didn't know there, too? Because the dealer techs are completely color blind and cannot notice color variations? You do know a CPO is suppose to undergo a 170 point inspection...... And part of said inspection includes checking the paint

I'm sure this isn't foreign to you: https://www.cstatic-images.com/image/upload/v1479143413/cpo/inspections/volvo-inspection.pdf

Body Panels: Inspect for damage, dings, dents, alignment, mismatched paint, and overall paint condition (clear coat)
 

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Not sure I saw the other post. But that post doesn't matter here.

You are assuming this dealer hid information and you have no basis for that besides your own paranoia.

Body work can be obviously bad. That sort of thing is easy to catch.

Body work can appear good but still be sub par. Like, say, look fine and then peel in 2 years and 50k miles. That won't be caught.

Someone could very easily have gotten a scratch on their door and had it painted. Then gave the car back after the lease was up. Things looked fine (obviously since it took this long for an issue to appear- as per the inspection there was no damage, ding, alignment issue and the paint matched because it was blended) Carfax was clean (I know Carfax sucks, but it's not like there was an accident on there that the dealer tried to hide). So the car got certified. You want to assume, I can too.

Get your letters to the execs ready because this is going nowhere.
 
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