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Beautiful cars but the sedans were already harder to move than the wagons, and those sedans with the extra 7k matte paint jobs were hard sells. I'll speculate that it has been driven by an employee or owner of Steingold for the last year. But that's just a guess. Looks great.
 

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I am curious about the situation in the US, but in the Netherlands 2019/2020 previously owned cars have been increasing in value due to lack of new production cars across all brands.

After driving my MY2020 S60 for a year, if I were interested, I could resell at my purchase price I paid for it last year.
 

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I am curious about the situation in the US, but in the Netherlands 2019/2020 previously owned cars have been increasing in value due to lack of new production cars across all brands.

After driving my MY2020 S60 for a year, if I were interested, I could resell it at the purchase price I paid for it last year.
In the US the car market has been insane lately. Dealers that typically deal with the luxury car market are making a markup adjustment of anywhere from 5-20grand more on new vehicles. Unfortunately, we are still suffering from chip shortages this market looks like it'll stick around for another year until things go back to normal (hopefully). Rumors are that automakers like Mercedes are going to keep making a limited number of units even after the chip shortage in order to continue the sales and markup(s) of their vehicles.

I wish I can sell my S60 because it definitely has profit but unfortunately for anyone in the USA Volvo Financial has canceled selling to third parties just like many others. You can sell or trade-in the vehicle at a Volvo dealer if you are getting another Volvo. Might be a bit wrong on this but I know for a fact VFS doesn't allow third-party sales through them, you'd have to buy the vehicle out and receive the title from them and then sell it to a third party however this can complicate the situation because of taxes.
 

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I am curious about the situation in the US, but in the Netherlands 2019/2020 previously owned cars have been increasing in value due to lack of new production cars across all brands.

After driving my MY2020 S60 for a year, if I were interested, I could resell at my purchase price I paid for it last year.
It's probably not far off that situation in the US - yet, but like all things it depends on the car.

The tricky thing about PHEV and BEV resales in the US is that the first owner took the tax credit, which in this case is around $5.4k, assuming the car has already been titled, so that needs to be taken into account. This car at $69.5k plus the tax credit comes out at around $75k which is probably more than this car was new with the special paint. This car includes certification as well.

A private resale would be less.
 

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Das a bit much for a 2020 with someone else's butt print in the seat. Nice car though!
For a car, period. I can't see myself ever putting money like that on an asset that has zero return if used as intended.

It is NICE vehicle though. I do like that matte finish

I am curious about the situation in the US, but in the Netherlands 2019/2020 previously owned cars have been increasing in value due to lack of new production cars across all brands.

After driving my MY2020 S60 for a year, if I were interested, I could resell at my purchase price I paid for it last year.
It's the same in the US, but honestly then, unless you're unloading a car, you're just turning right back around to pay higher than MSRP for a new car, so there's not much upswing to that scenario.
 

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For a car, period. I can't see myself ever putting money like that on an asset that has zero return if used as intended.

It is NICE vehicle though. I do like that matte finish

It's the same in the US, but honestly then, unless you're unloading a car, you're just turning right back around to pay higher than MSRP for a new car, so there's not much upswing to that scenario.
I think price is often relative. For a person who lives in Los Angeles where a house is a million dollars and silicon Valley job pays 6 figures, a 70k car isn't much. For a person living in the midwest making 50k / yr where a house is 150-200k, chances are splurging on a 70k car is out of the question.

Pricing on this car is high, but used cars are commanding near new car prices. And news cars are selling for sticker or more. There's no normal price right now.
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I think price is often relative. For a person who lives in Los Angeles where a house is a million dollars and silicon Valley job pays 6 figures, a 70k car isn't much. For a person living in the midwest making 50k / yr where a house is 150-200k, chances are splurging on a 70k car is out of the question.

Pricing on this car is high, but used cars are commanding near new car prices. And news cars are selling for sticker or more. There's no normal price right now.
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As somebody who has lived in high cost of living areas and also small towns, 1 million in the center of LA or the suburbs doesn't get you much. In normal COL areas it literally gets you a mansion in a safe suburb. Think 6,000 sq feet type of house.

"6 figures" is also very relative. 100,000 in San Francisco is actually fairly comfortable for a single earner if your spouse also makes 100,000. You can't easily afford a house but you can rent without too much trouble and max out retirement accounts. Per google, 112k is the average household San Francisco income in 2019; perhaps skewed by the cats making 300k and up.

Now you get to 400k or more household income in San Francisco and it's fairly comfortable living. Many tech workers with a bachelors or masters degree are making 100-130k in higher cost of living areas. They actually aren't that rich in these cities. It's actually a lot easier to make 100k gross than what you'd think: average registered nurse in CA makes low 6 figures and dental hygienists, ultrasound techs, x ray techs, and the like can approach 6 figures with less than a bachelors.

I've occupied almost every tax bracket in my life and there are many people with nicer cars than me making less and many people with cheaper cars making more than me. People spend money as they choose.
 

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I think price is often relative. For a person who lives in Los Angeles where a house is a million dollars and silicon Valley job pays 6 figures, a 70k car isn't much. For a person living in the midwest making 50k / yr where a house is 150-200k, chances are splurging on a 70k car is out of the question.

Pricing on this car is high, but used cars are commanding near new car prices. And news cars are selling for sticker or more. There's no normal price right now.
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Just to frame the argument against your point and nothing more (not to derail the sale of this lovely car) on yearly income....I'll just tell you my tax bracket % has a 3 in the tens digit. And I'm still not buying it. :ROFLMAO: Of course I don't subscribe to the notion of "good debt" and living on monthly payments for anything.
 

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Just to frame the argument against your point and nothing more (not to derail the sale of this lovely car) on yearly income....I'll just tell you my tax bracket % has a 3 in the tens digit. And I'm still not buying it. :ROFLMAO: Of course I don't subscribe to the notion of "good debt" and living on monthly payments for anything.
I'm guessing you're alluding to a 6 figure salary. Point remains, that's the target demographic for these high end cars.
 

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Just to frame the argument against your point and nothing more (not to derail the sale of this lovely car) on yearly income....I'll just tell you my tax bracket % has a 3 in the tens digit. And I'm still not buying it. :ROFLMAO: Of course I don't subscribe to the notion of "good debt" and living on monthly payments for anything.
I’ll do you one better; my tax bracket has a 7 in the ones digit and I wouldn’t buy it either ;). Having the money for something is one thing, but the opportunity cost of not being able to spend that money on something else (say, a used 911 at that price point) is just as significant.

That said, as an owner of a PE car I hope this sells because it's a sign that at least someone in this market is willing to fork over that much money for one of these.
 

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Price and Value. The market situation, it's a fairly rare car, special model, cost a penny new, it's worth what someone will pay. That is whatever it is.

Value though, I don't know. No doubt it's nicer and better car than my S60 T6. At what price though. 50k S60s were 40k in 2019. My lease buyout is coming up, it's 28k. To compare to what I am driving now...I don't know how to value the T8 in my mind, it's something, but otherwise we got Ohlins, and some Brembo brakes. And the cosmetics. I can't see $70k for that. There is so precious little difference. I got the sport chassis I can buy the Ohlins whenever I feel like it. It is special, you just have to really like that specialness. It wouldn't be enough for me. You could make the argument the total cost of ownership would have worked out having bought one of these new instead...but I feel that perhaps that ship has sailed at this point, to buy that now and hope it holds value to reduce the ownership cost.

I tend to look at a "special" or niche car with the "what did they give you, you can't get any other way" like Ford gave you a flat plane crank V8 in the GT350, can't easily do that to a GT Mustang. Subaru has always given you an STI with a stout trans, and the trick diffs, costly stuff to do to a WRX. Not that you would actually do that, but it makes something special, not easily replicated. The V60 works on the fact that the V60 T8 doesn't exist here, it's psychological difference but somehow that works. The S60 though....it's a T8 with a Polestar Tune, some shocks and brake kit. I know...gold seat belts too. That's worth maybe a $5k premium in my mind. Diminishing returns I guess.

Not to crap on the car, it's nice, it's unique and I am sure someone will fall in love with it and pick it up and be happy.
 

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I'm guessing you're alluding to a 6 figure salary. Point remains, that's the target demographic for these high end cars.
The median income of luxury car (infiniti, volvo, cadillac, bmw, merc, audi, etc) buyers is not as high as one would think. The NYT had an article in 2014 showing that the median income of a luxury car owner was under 100k.

"The median annual income of a luxury car owner in the United States, for example, is $99,364." (116k in 2021 dollars)


Volvo is technically a "luxury" or "high end" car but the prices range from about 38, 39k for an entry level S60 to about 75k for a high end xc90. Alternatively you could have spent 60k on a Kia K900 or 37k for a high end Toyota Camry. Mainstream car purchase prices and even cost of ownership can approach "high end cars"

I have a lot of friends making 300, 400, 500k income and a lot of them do not spend a ton on cars. Volvo may want higher income people to buy their cars, but statistically the typical person buying that Volvo is not in the 32% ($164,926 +) and above federal tax bracket.

I know so many people making 40k with 50k+ trucks or with new mercedes, bmw, audi costing 35-50k.
 

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The median income of luxury car (infiniti, volvo, cadillac, bmw, merc, audi, etc) buyers is not as high as one would think. The NYT had an article in 2014 showing that the median income of a luxury car owner was under 100k.

"The median annual income of a luxury car owner in the United States, for example, is $99,364." (116k in 2021 dollars)


Volvo is technically a "luxury" or "high end" car but the prices range from about 38, 39k for an entry level S60 to about 75k for a high end xc90. Alternatively you could have spent 60k on a Kia K900 or 37k for a high end Toyota Camry. Mainstream car purchase prices and even cost of ownership can approach "high end cars"

I have a lot of friends making 300, 400, 500k income and a lot of them do not spend a ton on cars. Volvo may want higher income people to buy their cars, but statistically the typical person buying that Volvo is not in the 32% ($164,926 +) and above federal tax bracket.

I know so many people making 40k with 50k+ trucks or with new mercedes, bmw, audi costing 35-50k.
Volvo S60s are typically mid 30s to low 40s. Car prices are pretty expensive. That said, Volvo's SUVs are usually $60k to $70k. Double what most Mainstream SUV's Cost (Volkswagon, Honda, Toyota, etc). So definitely "Luxury" by all definition.

Even an S60 is still almost double that of a Honda Civic or Toyota Sedan.

So $116k average salary to purchase a New Volvo Sedan or a Volvo SUV costing $70k sounds about right.

Yes, there are plenty of people with wealth who don't wish to flaunt. But a Volvo definitely isn't a showy or flashy car!
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Beautiful cars but the sedans were already harder to move than the wagons, and those sedans with the extra 7k matte paint jobs were hard sells. I'll speculate that it has been driven by an employee or owner of Steingold for the last year. But that's just a guess. Looks great.
This one is a true CPO vehicle. Owned by our top tier customer who has purchased 40+ vehicles in his lifetime from us. He loves Volvo, and often swaps vehicles every 3-4 months.


Michael Bernardo
Director of Marketing
Steingold Volvo Cars
766 Broadway
Pawtucket, RI 02861
(401) 723-4700 x126
[email protected]
 

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I know so many people making 40k with 50k+ trucks or with new mercedes, bmw, audi costing 35-50k.
These are always fun discussions. These people making 40k though...do they have kids, house etc. I can't see that working in my mind ha. I was driving some crappy cars when I made that kinda money! Well I did buy a fairly new used Buick when I got my first computer tech job making 45k.

Me I am probably right in the average for a Volvo buyer. I've never bought (er leased) a car so expensive. For me though, being a "car guy" it's a different equation, it's something of a joy to me. It pains me more to see some want to have a "nice everything" and the car is just a prop in that life to go with clothes, house, electronics etc. I am not into my house, my iPhone is 5 years old, I've bought exactly 2 TVs my entire 45 year life, yada yada I just don't care much about any of it. But my car, it's my thing.

But a Volvo definitely isn't a showy or flashy car!
You will always have subjectivity on this. I truly believe there is a big social component to cars. "Enthusiasts" are rare yet cars are a big business. Not in the "flashy" way as most people don't want to draw that kind of attention, they talk down about other people who are too "flashy". But in a quiet "fitting in" or social status type of way. That's why we have these powerful brands, everybody I know has an idea of who is a BMW driver, a Volvo driver, etc. even if they know absolutely nothing about cars. It's like a hobby for me to pay attention to these "normal" people, they are deciding if they fit a brand before they ever consider a vehicle on it's merits. There is plenty of it here...see: comments on me taking my Volvo to the track lol.
 
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