[S40DaB]

Hey guys,

On my road trip to the hill country to go camping I got a CEL this weekend code P2196. This is supposed to be a too rich code. Anyone seen this before or have any thoughts on it? Only thing I have done lately is install the cat spacer CEL fix and the 3" evolve intake. I am wondering if I should get my car retuned because of the new intake?

Anything I should check?

Other thoughts?

Thanks!

Edit Afterthought: The car seems to be running just fine. I'm not sure how that factors into this.

Modified by S40DaB at 12:15 PM 3-16-2009

 

[laser8302]

Run too rich has to do with the O2 sensors reading too rich at the cat. It will run just fine but won't pass emission testing and you will probably get worse gas mileage because of the code. Try having it reset by a code reader (autozone may be able to do this) and see if it comes up again.

 

[S40DaB]

I can reset it via my PPC. I have done this with my other cat code that I would get P4160 or something like that that the spacer fixed. I am thinking I'll probably need to reread the car and get it retuned. Any other thoughts?

Also I drove about 240 miles home with the code after I got it checked and my milage seemed to be right at par for cruising at 70 mph. I got just under half a tank left after the 240 miles.

The conditions for which the light came on were extremely rainy outside after driving for 240 miles.

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: (S40DaB)

It's hard to be certain with just the generic "P" code. The full Volvo DTC would be more specific. But, this is a front sensor code, and not a particularly good one. I note you have a downpipe. How long has it been on? Any work on it lately, or "behind" the engine? Crimping or kinking the cable leading to the O2 sensor can mess it up badly - the reference air comes through it.

Tom.

 

[S40DaB]

I did put the spacer on the cat O2 sensor but if I am informed correctly this code is from the first O2 sensor which I didn't do anything with. The downpipe has been on a year. I tried to be careful to make sure that the O2 sensor wires looked okay but I will give it another peek when I get home.

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: (S40DaB)

It is conceivable that the change in reading from the rear O2 sensor is causing the ECU to blame the front one. The spacer trick is a bit of a hack, you know...

Tom.

 

[S40DaB]

Yes I did know the spacer trick was hack as you put it. I was hoping to get rid of the other code but perhaps by doing that I forced myself to have this one as well. Do you think getting a retune would fix my problems?

I feel like there could be so many factors contributing to this right now:
1) CAT spacer CEL fix
2) Evolve 3" intake
3) Needing to be retuned from intake
4) Check wires from the O2 sensor(s)
5) Check downpipe to turbo bolts/connection for exhaust leaks etc
6) Perhaps driving in extremely wet/rainy conditions for 3 hours cause a CEL

 

[S40DaB]

I think I'll try resetting the code and then I'll report back. If it comes back then I know something is wrong. My car seems to be running just swell otherwise...

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: (S40DaB)

Quote, originally posted by S40DaB »

Do you think getting a retune would fix my problems?

Nope. This isn't the kind of thing a tune will affect.

You mentioned leaks in the exhaust - I'd expect those to make the O2 sensor read lean, not rich btw.

Tom

 

[S40DaB]

Good point. I'll try to reset it and make sure that the wires look okay. If not then its off to the dealership I suppose.

 

[S40DaB]

Problem just got worse...

Tonight I noticed that it was running and smelling very very rich. No CEL since I cleared it. I got her home and checked the oil and it smelled like fuel. Yikes. So tomorrow first thing I am going to go get an oil change. The other thing I did today was detune back to the original tune so I can start to trouble shoot this. I took it on a 30 minute 60 mph highway drive after I detuned and when I pulled her in the garage the exhaust smelled neutral. I am going to run it detuned for probably the next week or two to trouble shoot and see if I get that CEL again while still checking the oil.

Thoughts?

Couple of scenarios that I can come up with offhand:
1) The new intake really threw off the RICA tune either by messing with the MAF readings or something else and caused the car to run too rich. (MAF reads a higher air flow and tries to compensate by adding fuel?? Is that how that would work? Outside of the parameters of the tune?)
2) Something is wrong with the new intake.
3) The CAT spacer CEL fix in combination threw off something.
4) Who knows.

I am serious hoping it is number 1 and getting a new tune from RICA will make all well, but I am going to play it very cautious for the next two weeks.

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: (S40DaB)

OK, dumping fuel and running pig-rich could definitely be caused by the tune. If the issue disappears and stays gone after a few hundred miles on stock, you can be sure of it. The original O2 sensor problem though, is almost certain to still be there.

If you get a CEL on stock, DON'T clear it. You're deleting all the information needed to figure out what is happening.

If it is the intake, look very, very closely at the MAF. The pipe won't do a thing, but a misplaced or compromised MAF certainly will. More likely it's the DP/cat/O2 sensors, but at this point it could be anything. More information is needed.

Def. change the oil. Enough gas down the cylinders to get into it means it's spent.

Tom.

 

[-ForceFed-]

Re: (tmtalpey)

Quote, originally posted by tmtalpey »

If you get a CEL on stock, DON'T clear it. You're deleting all the information needed to figure out what is happening.

Yes thats very important. You may need the vehicle freeze frame data to diagnos the issue. Let alone if scanned with something other than a generic scan tool you will be able to get a LOT more data as to what the causes may be.

 

[S40DaB]

Definitely I won't clear it on stock. There would just be no way for me to know if the code came back on after I went back to stock tune. I called (and woke up) my dad last night to talk to him about this. He's been a mechanic all of his life and his suggestion was to go back to stock tune as well as resetting the code then keeping an eye on it for a couple weeks (couple hundred miles).

I don't quite follow what you mean by the original O2 sensor problem is almost certain to still be there though Tom, if you could elaborate.

When I put the new intake pipe on I saw the MAF but I did not have to do anything with it. It was positioned as such that the new hose went over the original plastic and the stock airbox with the MAF stayed in the car. So I really doubt that I did anything to it.

I am about to go get an oil change then then I'll keep an eye on it and report back periodically. So far everything seems really good. Car is running fine on the stock tune. It doesn't have a rich smell.

Sure would be nice to figure out where this came from. I assumed that the ECU would be able to compensate for the increased air flow but perhaps because of the tune it would not.

At this point I hope that the stock tune makes the car run fine and then I'll take a new reading and get back to RICA about getting a new tune for the new components.

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: (S40DaB)

Quote, originally posted by S40DaB »

I don't quite follow what you mean by the original O2 sensor problem is almost certain to still be there though Tom, if you could elaborate.

I mean that whatever condition triggered the first code is probably still there. It seems unlikely to be purely software-related, to me, so I conclude there is some kind of physical issue. Maybe it's the new location of the O2 sensor in the larger DP, maybe it's something to do with the disagreement between the two O2 sensors now that the rear one has a spacer, maybe it's something else entirely. Hard to say with the present data.

Quote »

When I put the new intake pipe on I saw the MAF but I did not have to do anything with it. It was positioned as such that the new hose went over the original plastic and the stock airbox with the MAF stayed in the car. So I really doubt that I did anything to it.

Hmm. So the new pipe is just a pipe? No other changes in airbox, MAF or other plumbing? I doubt that made any difference at all - unless there's an air leak on one of the other small fittings. A post-MAF leak will throw things off, big-time.

Quote »

Sure would be nice to figure out where this came from. I assumed that the ECU would be able to compensate for the increased air flow but perhaps because of the tune it would not.

It certainly can compensate, within the range of the things you're modified. There's something else going on.

Tom.

 

[S40DaB]

I'm thinking that I'll probably pull off that new intake pipe and at least make sure I don't have any glaring issues on that. Could be that I didn't get the new pipe on perfectly or after driving for 300 miles it goofed up. So many possibilities :-/

Probably a few lessons learned here.

One modification at a time. Now I have two issues to troubleshoot. The cat spacer and the intake pipe.

Modified by S40DaB at 9:10 PM 3-17-2009

 

[S40DaB]

Quick update: I had driven about 150 miles (driving on purpose 30 miles a night on the highway because my work is 4ish miles from my house) and everything seemed to be okay. Today I was going to my parents house for a family get together and I got a CEL. Ran by autozone and it is the same code.

So now I am going to swing by the dealership tomorrow and get some detailed diagnostics that will hopefully help me figure out what is going on here. I almost picked up some MAF cleaner while I was at autozone but I decided to wait until I can get some more data. Hopefully the diagnostics will be able to tell me something.

I'll report back.

 

[S40DaB]

Another quick update:

Took the car to the dealership today and they pulled the code: ECM-24CB Front Heated oxygen sensor (HO2S), bank 1 - signal missing.

This code is apparently intermittent. They took the car for a drive and said if the CEL comes back on then to take it to the dealership and have the O2 sensor replaced for an easy $500.

I suspect within about 150 miles that the code will come back but I'm not convinced that the problem that caused this in the first place is gone.

Thoughts at this point?

 

[-ForceFed-]

Re: (S40DaB)

Buy the O2 sensor and do it yourself and save a couple hundred. Its really easy with a simple O2 sensor socket and a 3/8" ratchet.

 

[S40DaB]

I plan on doing that definitely but like I asked earlier, how did it get "fouled" (not sure of the correct terminology) in the first place. That is what really concerns me.