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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Car has 61,000 miles. Few months ago (7/19) had a maintenance done - oil and filter, transmission oil, cabin air filter, and rear brakes.

Last week, the day before my parents came for a visit, the CEL came on.

Went to O'Reilly Auto, and they could not read the codes with their scanner.

On a whim I drove the 2 blocks Advance Auto Parts and their reader, which looked a lot like the O'Reilly reader, came back with P0171.

Wife called Volvo dealer and the local European shop we used when we owned a Mercedes.

Each wants about $150 for the diagnostic, but says driving is OK. Might see MPG go down a little. We breathe a sigh of relief and will address after my folks are gone.

CEL was on the whole time.

Get up today (10/14/19) to drive parents to the airport, and LOW and BEHOLD, NO CEL.

In the mean time I learned cleaning the MAF sensor might help. And it might be related to an air filter change... Not cabin air filter obviously, but I did think maybe engine air filter was also changed, so maybe, but checking the work order, see no mention of a new air filter.

So, should I be worried? Do anything? What might have caused this?

Oh, I also looked into cleaning the MAF, and was planning to do that, as it seemed easy enough. If the CEL comes back, that's what I will do (with the special MAF cleaning fluid from CRC). Looks pretty easy to get to as well. Just remove some Torx screws, on air intake, and remove the MAF?

Well fingers crossed on CEL not coming back, but in case it does, I'd like to be ready.

Thanks in advance, Eric
 

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Do not "clean" the MAF, you'll likely ruin it. Honestly can't tell you the last time I've seen a bad MAF, they rarely go bad.
Thar P017100 is a Lean Fault. It can be anything from an air leak, bad PCV, and many times its a faulty O2 sensor. It would help to view the data maps when the fault occurred and look at all six fuel trim settings.
I've seen many PCV hoses that go from the PCV box to the intake crack and leak air, there is a Technical Journal on that. There is also a long TJ on diagnosing this specific fault as there are many issues that can cause the lean fault. I've even seen faulty purge valves cause this, faulty vacuum pump lines and even too high alcohol content of fuel and even the check valve on the intake side of the PCV hose. If you smoke test the intake system and there are no leaks and PCV check valve is OK and PCV hose is good and PCV diaphragm is good and crankcase pressure is within spec, I would lean towards replacing the Front O2 sensor. I've seen way too many of those of the 4 cyl engine. You will also need VIDA to reset the fuel adaptions. An alternative method would be to clear the fault, then do a battery reset to clear adaptions. Clearing the fault does not clear adaptions and the fault will come right back even if the fault has been fixed. When the fault comes and goes as yours seems to be, its usually a O2 sensor as a cracked or leaking hose usually is constant so the ECM would keep the light on but a barely within spec O2 will set it off from time to time and usually will eventually stay on. You really don't want a lean condition on a turbocharged engine.
 

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You can clean MAF sensor and there are multiple cleaners for it. Sometimes it gets dirty by dust. 2 times it saved me tons of money. And yes there could other problems but start from simple things:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the replies.

I did ponder the notion of fuel. I recall I bought it from a place I don't usually buy from, but have bought from in the past.

So maybe a bad batch?

Fingers crossed and thanks again.

Eric
 

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This has been happening to me for a year. CEL comes on for a few days, goes away for a few days to weeks then pops back on for a few days.

While watching the fuel trims, they go out of spec only at idle then return to normal as soon as I give it some gas. Leads me to believe it's a small vacuum leak that the vacuum at idle can't compete with but voids out as soon as I give it some revs. Additionally, the car has a quirk where whenever I fill it up with gas, for the first few miles of driving it wants to stall at idle but doesn't throw a CEL. I think this is likely related to something in the purge valve, and could also be the source of the vacuum leak causing my intermittent lean condition. But like one of the previous posters said, an intermittent vacuum leak is really odd. I'll get smoke testing the intake soon and see if I can't narrow things down, but I wanted to chime in and let you know you're not the only one with the issue!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Wampo, thanks for posting. Most curious that we have the same model and year car.

I like the smoke test idea. Just watched a few youtube videos on the subject.

Very curious about your sig. Where does one find info on bad piston rings? I did a check my VIN here ( https://www.volvocars.com/us/own/additional-choices/recall-information ), and nothing came back, but wanted to be sure.

Thanks again,

Eric
 

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Very curious indeed, Eric! The Drive-E engines below a certain serial number can potentially (not definitely!) experience abnormal oil consumption due to premature wear on the rings. I've attached the tech journal on it, but sufficeth to say if you have a pre MY16 then you're within range. I only put it in my signature in case people wanted to ask - so far I've got 75k and no abnormal oil consumption. View attachment Volvo_B4204T11-B4204T12_oil-consumption_TJ-31216_201604.pdf

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Interesting. So you've also used a new term. I don't recognize the term "Drive-E engine" (even though we are both T5s). Was/is this an option? Or maybe I've just never come across it before. Googling I see "Some Volvo models equipped with Drive-E engines include: Volvo S60. Volvo S80. Volvo V60. Volvo XC60. Volvo XC70. Volvo XC90." But I honestly don't know.

Thank you!
 

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This has been happening to me for a year. CEL comes on for a few days, goes away for a few days to weeks then pops back on for a few days.

While watching the fuel trims, they go out of spec only at idle then return to normal as soon as I give it some gas. Leads me to believe it's a small vacuum leak that the vacuum at idle can't compete with but voids out as soon as I give it some revs. Additionally, the car has a quirk where whenever I fill it up with gas, for the first few miles of driving it wants to stall at idle but doesn't throw a CEL. I think this is likely related to something in the purge valve, and could also be the source of the vacuum leak causing my intermittent lean condition. But like one of the previous posters said, an intermittent vacuum leak is really odd. I'll get smoke testing the intake soon and see if I can't narrow things down, but I wanted to chime in and let you know you're not the only one with the issue!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
The possible stalling after filling with gas is an overfill issue. If you are filling your gas tank and are the type of person that keeps filling after it clicks off, effectively filing the neck with gas, then yes your purge system is sucking raw gas. Not ideal and even short term if can clog one of the charcoal canisters, usually the round shaped one, and will also ruin the seat seal in the purge valve as bits of charcoal will also wash up in there clogging it. This type of info is usually hard to get from a customer because they don't want to tell you anything except the symptom of CEL. But I've replaced dozens of O2 sensors on these engines after all other TJ's have been addresed. I've even had vehicles with hesitation on acceleration and zippy faults fixed by an O2 sensor. Its weird but happens. I only wish Volvo would update VIDA diagnostics to include Multiplicative and Additive values in an easier to view logged data when the fault happens. When I worked for BMW it was very easy to diagnose fuel trim faults by looking at those parameters. At least for me.
 

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Interesting. So you've also used a new term. I don't recognize the term "Drive-E engine" (even though we are both T5s). Was/is this an option? Or maybe I've just never come across it before. Googling I see "Some Volvo models equipped with Drive-E engines include: Volvo S60. Volvo S80. Volvo V60. Volvo XC60. Volvo XC70. Volvo XC90." But I honestly don't know.

Thank you!
The 4 cylinder is a Drive-E or VEP engine. There are a few different configurations but your is a Drive-E T5. There were a few T6 S60's with FWD that I've seen but not many. The T6 has the Supercharger as well as the turbo. Quite peppy in a S60. Basically if you have Start/Stop function it is Drive-E
 

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The possible stalling after filling with gas is an overfill issue. If you are filling your gas tank and are the type of person that keeps filling after it clicks off, effectively filing the neck with gas, then yes your purge system is sucking raw gas. Not ideal and even short term if can clog one of the charcoal canisters, usually the round shaped one, and will also ruin the seat seal in the purge valve as bits of charcoal will also wash up in there clogging it. This type of info is usually hard to get from a customer because they don't want to tell you anything except the symptom of CEL. But I've replaced dozens of O2 sensors on these engines after all other TJ's have been addresed. I've even had vehicles with hesitation on acceleration and zippy faults fixed by an O2 sensor. Its weird but happens. I only wish Volvo would update VIDA diagnostics to include Multiplicative and Additive values in an easier to view logged data when the fault happens. When I worked for BMW it was very easy to diagnose fuel trim faults by looking at those parameters. At least for me.
Hey Oceans, thanks for the input. I've been suspecting an issue with the EVAP system for exactly the reasons you described but I hadn't attributed anything to overfilling. Definitely not the person you describe, not sure what the point of repeatedly pumping gas in would be after that first shut off but as soon as the gas gun pops I take it out. I'm curious now though if I would experience my stalling symptoms if I only filled the tank 3/4 full...

If I'm getting overfilling symptoms by just filling up normally would that suggest the canister was ruined by the previous owner or another fault in the EVAP system (removing user error from the diagnosis)?

To get back on the topic of the thread (didn't mean to derail!), a faulty 02 sensor crossed my mind regarding the intermittent P0171 too but the trims only going out of whack at idle and returning to normal under acceleration keep me focused on a vacuum leak. Many mornings my brake pedal is very firm when starting the car, even after a few hours sometimes telling me residual vacuum is leaking out somewhere. As soon as the car starts the pedal sinks once vacuum is restored. I intend to measure how well and how long the booster can hold vacuum for as well as the check valve. A faulty check valve would be more pleasant than a faulty booster haha, especially for a MY15 car! Again thanks for the advice!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
 

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Hey Oceans, thanks for the input. I've been suspecting an issue with the EVAP system for exactly the reasons you described but I hadn't attributed anything to overfilling. Definitely not the person you describe, not sure what the point of repeatedly pumping gas in would be after that first shut off but as soon as the gas gun pops I take it out. I'm curious now though if I would experience my stalling symptoms if I only filled the tank 3/4 full...

If I'm getting overfilling symptoms by just filling up normally would that suggest the canister was ruined by the previous owner or another fault in the EVAP system (removing user error from the diagnosis)?

To get back on the topic of the thread (didn't mean to derail!), a faulty 02 sensor crossed my mind regarding the intermittent P0171 too but the trims only going out of whack at idle and returning to normal under acceleration keep me focused on a vacuum leak. Many mornings my brake pedal is very firm when starting the car, even after a few hours sometimes telling me residual vacuum is leaking out somewhere. As soon as the car starts the pedal sinks once vacuum is restored. I intend to measure how well and how long the booster can hold vacuum for as well as the check valve. A faulty check valve would be more pleasant than a faulty booster haha, especially for a MY15 car! Again thanks for the advice!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
Our '16 V60 has done this from new though we've never had any of the other symptoms you describe.
 

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This has been happening to me for a year. CEL comes on for a few days, goes away for a few days to weeks then pops back on for a few days.

While watching the fuel trims, they go out of spec only at idle then return to normal as soon as I give it some gas. Leads me to believe it's a small vacuum leak that the vacuum at idle can't compete with but voids out as soon as I give it some revs. Additionally, the car has a quirk where whenever I fill it up with gas, for the first few miles of driving it wants to stall at idle but doesn't throw a CEL. I think this is likely related to something in the purge valve, and could also be the source of the vacuum leak causing my intermittent lean condition. But like one of the previous posters said, an intermittent vacuum leak is really odd. I'll get smoke testing the intake soon and see if I can't narrow things down, but I wanted to chime in and let you know you're not the only one with the issue!

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
I think you are right. My previous car (06' Saab 9-3 Aero) had the exact same symptoms. It would struggle to even start at the gas station after filling up. I had to pump the accelerator while cranking to get it to come to life. Replaced the EVAP purge valve and that fixed it. That would explain the intermittent lean condition. If the car "thinks" it is purging fuel vapors into the intake via the purge valve, then it will not inject as much fuel via the injectors. If those fuel vapors are not actually making it into the intake, that would cause a lean condition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Well damn. CEL came on again yesterday (10/20/19). Had just driven about 50 mostly highway miles, pulled into the grocery store (HEB), and before I turned the car off, noticed the CEL was on.

Just saw all the new posts, going back to read them now, but wanted to update first.

Eric

PS. Just saw the fill-up theory. That sounded good, until yesterday. CEL came on with less than 1/4 tank.
 

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Well damn. CEL came on again yesterday (10/20/19). Had just driven about 50 mostly highway miles, pulled into the grocery store (HEB), and before I turned the car off, noticed the CEL was on.

Just saw all the new posts, going back to read them now, but wanted to update first.

Eric

PS. Just saw the fill-up theory. That sounded good, until yesterday. CEL came on with less than 1/4 tank.
If it makes you feel any better mine came on again this morning after being off for 3 days haha.

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If it makes you feel any better mine came on again this morning after being off for 3 days haha.

'15 V60 T5 FWD | Savile Gray
Not really. But am looking forward to read more on your testing. I have yet to spend any prolonged time under the hood. My next step is to investigate for a vacuum leak, but this seems too intermittent. The last tank of gas did come from Kroger, but we typically go with Quik Trip. Plan to fill up at QT.
 

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Thought I would chime in and post an update. I performed a smoke test last week and couldn't find anything leaking. I decided to put in a different MAF sensor to see if anything changed as well - no change. Since the trims only go out of order while at idle and return to normal conditions under acceleration I still can't abandon the vacuum leak theory. I've just never encountered an intermittent vacuum leak, and because it occurs both abruptly and temporarily I have to think something mechanical is infrequently failing. I tested both the input and output of the Evap Purge Valve for vacuum and it held, but am wondering if sometimes when it closes it doesn't close all the way allowing for unexpected air to reach the system. The tricky thing about this is after the lean condition occurs, the condition resolves itself by the time I get home (by monitoring trims while driving) or I don't have a moment to perform a vacuum test when I get home and the condition is gone the next time I drive.

Oceans60R: If you're still paying attention to this thread, I tested your overfill theory and it didn't hold. Last 2 fillups I only filled the tank 1/2 & 3/4 of the way but still got a rough idle at my first stop that dissipated after a few more minutes of driving. Car starts and idles fine after filling up, but by the time I get to the next stop it's a rough almost stalling idle. I've actually now had this idle issue unrelated to filling up, randomly wanting to stall out at a stop so I put the car in N and give it a few hundred RPMs and it stays smooth.
 

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1970 Camaro, 2006 Honda Odyssey, 2018 S90 T8, 2019 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
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The CEL light came on last night and tested as P0171. In looking through several threads, there are a number of possibilities including ignoring it for awhile which is what I'm going to do after resetting the code. I see the trap as being one of the possible causes. Is there a recommended service interval for this? I'm just at 50,000 miles.
I may be one of the lucky ones in that I have an early 2105 and have had no issues at all with oil consumption.
 

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2016 V60 CC T5 2.5t- Elevate Intake+Turbo Intake Pipe+Inlet Manifold/Muffler Delete/Kt4 DP Cat/RPF1s
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I got the same code after installing my downpipes code went away after I spaced out one of the O2 sensors, but returned shortly after. I have noticed a drop in MPG's. I talked to a mechanic friend with a XC60 with the same code and he said its likely a toasted O2. Not fully sure yet this is just an assumption. Im gonna have Rolling motors look at my car in the spring and diagnose the issue.
 

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Car has 61,000 miles. Few months ago (7/19) had a maintenance done - oil and filter, transmission oil, cabin air filter, and rear brakes.

Last week, the day before my parents came for a visit, the CEL came on.

Went to O'Reilly Auto, and they could not read the codes with their scanner.

On a whim I drove the 2 blocks Advance Auto Parts and their reader, which looked a lot like the O'Reilly reader, came back with P0171.

Wife called Volvo dealer and the local European shop we used when we owned a Mercedes.

Each wants about $150 for the diagnostic, but says driving is OK. Might see MPG go down a little. We breathe a sigh of relief and will address after my folks are gone.

CEL was on the whole time.

Get up today (10/14/19) to drive parents to the airport, and LOW and BEHOLD, NO CEL.

In the mean time I learned cleaning the MAF sensor might help. And it might be related to an air filter change... Not cabin air filter obviously, but I did think maybe engine air filter was also changed, so maybe, but checking the work order, see no mention of a new air filter.

So, should I be worried? Do anything? What might have caused this?

Oh, I also looked into cleaning the MAF, and was planning to do that, as it seemed easy enough. If the CEL comes back, that's what I will do (with the special MAF cleaning fluid from CRC). Looks pretty easy to get to as well. Just remove some Torx screws, on air intake, and remove the MAF?

Well fingers crossed on CEL not coming back, but in case it does, I'd like to be ready.

Thanks in advance, Eric
Replace both O2 sensors. Stick with Bosch or GENUINE for O2 sensors. I made that mistake by going with NTK, and the upstream one wasn't even the right sensor.
 
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