Any comments on why an S60 T5 was not included in the most recent Car and Driver 35K comparo? Could it be that it would smoke every car there? ;-) Ok, so it would still rate behind the 330i given C&D's usual criteria and biases. But I'm still disapointed they didn't include it.
Car Comparison
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I didn't catch that article. What cars were included?
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Interesting, didn't they recently do a comparo, or was it R&T, that had the Lincoln, the Cadillac, the Saab 9-5 and the Volvo in it? Can't remember, but the Infiniti won that one.
Surprises me that the VW was in it, but that the Volvo and the Lincoln weren't. I think the Caddy may be over $35K, but it's still an interesting car to compare.
Surprises me that the VW was in it, but that the Volvo and the Lincoln weren't. I think the Caddy may be over $35K, but it's still an interesting car to compare.
Simple. The S60 T5 isn't a 'sport sedan' anymore. It's a 'mainstreamer,' what with its FWD and the same basic hp as an Altima.
Sorry, guys, but I think even when the S60r gets released next year it'll be in the mid-pack of what's coming (hence, it'll be un-noticed by Car and Bimmer.)
Sigh.
[This message has been edited by T5 Dave (edited 09-01-2002).]
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Well, let's be frank about the Altima. Nissan put a killer engine in the car to get it noticed, and raised the bar for everyone else I guess. The A4 only has 230 hp with the 3.0 V6.
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The Acura is FWD too. Yeah, it has a few more horses than the T5 but so what? I bet that 0-60 and 0-100 the T5 (with manual) would be all over the TL). And the TL's handling is not the best, either.
Yannis
"Car and Bimmer"... never heard that, I like it.
As for mainstream, I think that only applies in the minds of this magazine's editors (see their long-term wrap-up of an S60 T5 in the Sept '02 edition). Their biggest complaint there was handling -- and unfortunately I have to agree. Now don't everyone go flaming me on this. I know with all the mods you can make it track on rails, but I can do the same thing to a Pinto. The issue is that if Volvo didn't do it, they missed the mark. I've driven a TL Yannis, and I can't agree with you there. I think it handles much tighter and much more predictably than an S60. I've heard it before mentioned that the S60 is a great engine looking for a chassis. While I remain faithful, I have to agree.
C&B does mention that previous losers were not invited to this comparison in order to make room for some new cars they can tease a bimmer with. And 35K was just a guide since two of the cars topped 40K. I'm even more disalusioned with this comparison since the number ratings for the bimmer are totally out of sync with the verbage in the article. Well, kind of like olympic ice skating: you have to do something to get your winner up there
As for mainstream, I think that only applies in the minds of this magazine's editors (see their long-term wrap-up of an S60 T5 in the Sept '02 edition). Their biggest complaint there was handling -- and unfortunately I have to agree. Now don't everyone go flaming me on this. I know with all the mods you can make it track on rails, but I can do the same thing to a Pinto. The issue is that if Volvo didn't do it, they missed the mark. I've driven a TL Yannis, and I can't agree with you there. I think it handles much tighter and much more predictably than an S60. I've heard it before mentioned that the S60 is a great engine looking for a chassis. While I remain faithful, I have to agree.
C&B does mention that previous losers were not invited to this comparison in order to make room for some new cars they can tease a bimmer with. And 35K was just a guide since two of the cars topped 40K. I'm even more disalusioned with this comparison since the number ratings for the bimmer are totally out of sync with the verbage in the article. Well, kind of like olympic ice skating: you have to do something to get your winner up there
Has Volvo ever supplied an T5 with the sports package for these reviews? I know for sure that the C&B long term car didn't have it, and one of their previous comparos didn't have one. And those Pirelli tires... You would think that Volvo would be on top of this kind of stuff.
They certainly didn't supply the sport package with the T5 at the launch, and that combined with the Volvo stigma of years of boxiness pretty much nailed the lid on the coffin.
Alas, poor S60, I knew thee well.
But to stop carping, is there any way to get a more rail-like ride on the car? I know my '91 T-bird really improved its feel when I switched to the Koni's. (I already have the sport suspension with the stiffer shocks, and it does improve feel, but I don't know if the Koni's would make it better.)
Is there any way to cut down the power boost a bit?
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I don't know how you found it to handle better but when I drove the TL it was all ove rthe place especially around curves and when I hit the brakes. Yes, it did not plow forward as bad as the Legend used to but it did nosedive dramatically. The S60 did not do that.
And as the fellow members posted below, it is Volvo's idiotic fault for not supplying a properly equipped car for such a test (in this case with the Sport Suspension). They always do that; they neve rpay attention to what the other cars are and just give the magazine whatever car they have available. STUPID!!!
I understand that the T5 and T6 engines can be very torqey for FWD cars but I am not sure "they are searching for a chassis"...
Yannis
Agreed the sport suspension is a must. I have Michellin Sport tires, and while I like them better than Pirellis (my tire guy won't even sell me Pirellis) with the Volvo steering and suspension the car still feels unpredictable. I realize it is Volvo's fault not supplying a properly equiped car, but alas they are not interested in impressing C&B magazine. In a way that's probably to their credit.
I agree that the Legend tended to nose dive, but I owned a Vigor and drove a TL-S and found them to be very predictable. The limits of the Vigor were not as high as the S60, but it's steering and suspension always let me know where I was with respect to the road and adhesion. For the average driver, it's a very comforting feeling to be able to predict how your car lets go. Otherwise your deaf, dumb, and blind... until your dead Then all you can do is pray your DSTC saves your life. Not to give them any more credit than they deserve, but C&B said it very well about the TL-S: "...no car was easier to nudge to its limit in low friction turns." That's my experience.
I agree that the Legend tended to nose dive, but I owned a Vigor and drove a TL-S and found them to be very predictable. The limits of the Vigor were not as high as the S60, but it's steering and suspension always let me know where I was with respect to the road and adhesion. For the average driver, it's a very comforting feeling to be able to predict how your car lets go. Otherwise your deaf, dumb, and blind... until your dead
Then all you can do is pray your DSTC saves your life. Not to give them any more credit than they deserve, but C&B said it very well about the TL-S: "...no car was easier to nudge to its limit in low friction turns." That's my experience.I too was disappointed because in that group, the T5 would have fared well.
I too drove a TL-S and while I loved the motor, I found the car to be soft and drove bigger than it is. I find the S60 drives more nimble. I have the sport susp. and find the handling predictable enough, but in reality it is a learning experience.
This car is something to really get comfortable with as far as handling is concerned. Over a week, you might be put off by its tendencies but after 5 months in my T5 it feels as familiar as an old friend.
Is it a turkey of a performance car as Patrick Bedard stated? No. I think he got foiled by the torque down low like I do sometimes and hammer it expecting the car to take off, but at 2000rpm in 4th, you are better off shifting to third and get in the powerband quickly.
This car will never get its respect. But I think that top three was feasible in this test.
Who is comfortable at the limit of any car? If you are driving at the limit on city streets, well I think you are pushing the car way beyond its intent. The T5 is very nice car right up to about 8/10ths where things start to get squirrely. I can live with this car at 8/10ths. I'll let Car and Driver wax poetic about the Bimmer on the racetrack, but nary a word about the below average ride, reliability and cheap looking interior. But hey, as long as its fun on a racetrack...all is forgiven. Whatever.
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