SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
121 - 140 of 175 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,047 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Here is a link with some more info, this is the only thing I can find but it's from UK site and I don't see any press release anywhere about this so not sure how good this info is.

Interesting. Most of the articles about the new powertrain with upgraded battery are rehashes of Volvo's Press Release. The link provided is the first where I have seen it stated that the XC90 and other 90s will get the upgrade first and the 60s will follow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
Interesting. Most of the articles about the new powertrain with upgraded battery are rehashes of Volvo's Press Release. The link provided is the first where I have seen it stated that the XC90 and other 90s will get the upgrade first and the 60s will follow.
This is not correct. S60 is scheduled to start including those upgrades as of week 46 (barring further setbacks due to shortages)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
I guess they are not using the old T6 anymore but the lately introduced B6 as a base.
The transmission on the other hand is still the previous generation from Aisin AW TG-81SD - 8 not the latest AWF8G55 - 8 Volvo is using in the mild-hybrid cars.

The biggest change is that Volvo will not be using the Webasto heater to heat up the cabin in "PURE" mode.
Volvo was under heavy critique in the nordic country that the company found a loophole in the EU emission calculation. The Webasto was not part of the CO2 emission calculation.
It will be a much less poluante solution this time. As a modern BEV, the cabin will be warm up with the help of battery heater!
T6 and T8 recharge models remain mechanically unchanged from previous models apart from the deletion of the supercharger. They are both still ‘Generation 2’ engines using the old gearbox and aren’t adopting changes since released to the mild-hybrid engines
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Not to burst anyone's bubble but how is the worldwide chip shortage going to affect rollout of the improved battery & associated electronics?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
This is not correct. S60 is scheduled to start including those upgrades as of week 46 (barring further setbacks due to shortages)
T6 and T8 recharge models remain mechanically unchanged from previous models apart from the deletion of the supercharger. They are both still ‘Generation 2’ engines using the old gearbox and aren’t adopting changes since released to the mild-hybrid engines
Interesting perspectives. Are you at liberty to share the source of this inside knowledge that contradicts the above linked reporting that the XC90 and other 90s will get the "upgrade first " and that the XC60 and other 60s will follow? ( I could see one reason for the 90s getting the upgrade first being that they will not initially be getting the one pedal feature which will be simultaneous for at least the XC60 so that might take a little longer to get incorporated into the XC60.)

Could you elaborate on the subject of "the deletion of the supercharger" as being related to the newly announced upgrades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Not to burst anyone's bubble but how is the worldwide chip shortage going to affect rollout of the improved battery & associated electronics?
Perhaps someone with technical knowledge could elaborate as to whether the upgrades actually require any more chips than would have otherwise been incorporated absent the upgrades. That said the chip manufacturers have certainly had enough time now to respond to the issues that initiated the shortage many months ago and presumably alternative sources may well now be more readily available to Volvo. Volvo's ties to China might well be a plus in that department as well as I know when I most recently visited Shanghai there was a big push to increase China's presence in
technology related manufacturing areas that presumably would include chips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,047 Posts
T6 and T8 recharge models remain mechanically unchanged from previous models apart from the deletion of the supercharger. They are both still ‘Generation 2’ engines using the old gearbox and aren’t adopting changes since released to the mild-hybrid engines
Could you elaborate on the subject of "the deletion of the supercharger" as being related to the newly announced upgrades.
I noticed that comment above as well, but haven't caught any reference to it in the PRs. Are the PHEVs essentially stepping back to the T5 ICE, and adding uprated ERAD?

That may make some sense, if the uprated motor essentially takes the low-end push that the supercharger previously did. Burns less fuel w/ lower emissions? I'll be curious to see revised mileage estimates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: northcar

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
The new PHEV components aren’t specifically affected by the chip shortages, but parts used in every car are. If it’s not possible to build cars in the first place, new releases are going to be delayed. Just so happens that the C40 is ramping up and more (/all) resources are being placed towards that.

Essentially yes about the T5 ICE. Although it would be extra special if twin charged + new ERAD was an option, I guess they felt that the increased kW output was enough to remove it, get better economy/cost and still have an overall increase to promote
 
  • Like
Reactions: northcar

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,047 Posts
Essentially yes about the T5 ICE. Although it would be extra special if twin charged + new ERAD was an option, I guess they felt that the increased kW output was enough to remove it, get better economy/cost and still have an overall increase to promote
I wonder if hypothetically, twin-charged + new ERAD could hit 500 hp?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
83 Posts
Has this battery upgrade been announced in the U.S. with an availability date? Of course the new battery eventually will be installed in all the listed models in all market regions, but I wonder if the U.S. will lag the UK/EU markets with this upgrade as it has with other new features and models. While it's good news, I view this like chasing phone or laptop upgrades...the upgrade is almost always desirable, but unless your device is a couple of generations old it may not matter that much to you, depending on your specific use pattern. Even Volvo says their Android-equipped cars are "like your smartphone---only bigger."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Perhaps someone with technical knowledge could elaborate as to whether the upgrades actually require any more chips than would have otherwise been incorporated absent the upgrades. That said the chip manufacturers have certainly had enough time now to respond to the issues that initiated the shortage many months ago and presumably alternative sources may well now be more readily available to Volvo. Volvo's ties to China might well be a plus in that department as well as I know when I most recently visited Shanghai there was a big push to increase China's presence in
technology related manufacturing areas that presumably would include chips.
From what I understand, the chip shortage is due to the relatively few manufacturers of advance chips in the world, namely 2, (Intel and Taiwan's TSMC), and of course covid. Intel has recently invested billions in expanding its advance manufacturing plant, which unfortunately will probably still lag in production and design to TSMC. Therefore, we are left with only 1 advance chip maker in the world - TSMC. Why did Intel/USA let Taiwan take the lead is a question for the ages.

Volvo ties to China would probably offer little lead way, since TSMC is a Taiwanese Corp., not to mention every corporation and govt in the world needs chips, including the giant gorilla in the room, US Defense Dept.
 

·
Registered
'19 XC90 T6 + '19 XC60 T8
Joined
·
127 Posts
From what I understand, the chip shortage is due to the relatively few manufacturers of advance chips in the world, namely 2, (Intel and Taiwan's TSMC), and of course covid. Intel has recently invested billions in expanding its advance manufacturing plant, which unfortunately will probably still lag in production and design to TSMC. Therefore, we are left with only 1 advance chip maker in the world - TSMC. Why did Intel/USA let Taiwan take the lead is a question for the ages.

Volvo ties to China would probably offer little lead way, since TSMC is a Taiwanese Corp., not to mention every corporation and govt in the world needs chips, including the giant gorilla in the room, US Defense Dept.
Euh... I don't know how much I should be saying here and will just try to answer @northcar's question rather than dispelling the false information and getting too political.
I don't think the upgrade will be any more impacted by the chip shortage than normal production for the previous drivetrain. Automotive chips are not advanced chips. They are rather very old, 10-20+ year old technology with proven track record of reliability which is required to make it onto a car. The innovation has been in the creativity of the application of these chips, not in the chips themselves. Exception made of the Android trash on the newer Volvos which is a guaranteed disaster (at least to me who does not treat a car like a consumable with a 3-4 year lifetime). In order to run an OS like Android, they must be using some more advanced CPUs which run hot and have very short lifetime, like what you have on mobile devices which are designed to last ~5-7 years as opposed to automotive grade which are made to last ~30+ years. Note that the design reliability rating is a median half life and there is a bell curve for the failure rates. It means that 5 years rating may have some significant percentage (tail) of early failures. This applies to the NOR flash memory chips storing all the firmware/OS and car settings as it is for the DRAM embedded or not onto the CPUs and the CPUs themselves. The chip shortage is affecting the entire semiconductor industry, not just advanced technologies. Given the current state of the affairs and how long it takes to ramp up the entire supply chain, the consensus is that we will not be out of the shortage situation for roughly another year as it is taking time to build out capacities to catch up to the new demand level. The shortage has been driven by both COVID and increased silicon content in various applications (one of them is automotive and the EV boom) driving a surge in demand while the supply chain is facing intermittent interruption due to COVID cases in various factories.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Euh... I don't know how much I should be saying here and will just try to answer @northcar's question rather than dispelling the false information and getting too political.
I don't think the upgrade will be any more impacted by the chip shortage than normal production for the previous drivetrain. Automotive chips are not advanced chips. They are rather very old, 10-20+ year old technology with proven track record of reliability which is required to make it onto a car. The innovation has been in the creativity of the application of these chips, not in the chips themselves. Exception made of the Android trash on the newer Volvos which is a guaranteed disaster (at least to me who does not treat a car like a consumable with a 3-4 year lifetime). In order to run an OS like Android, they must be using some more advanced CPUs which run hot and have very short lifetime, like what you have on mobile devices which are designed to last ~5-7 years as opposed to automotive grade which are made to last ~30+ years. Note that the design reliability rating is a median half life and there is a bell curve for the failure rates. It means that 5 years rating may have some significant percentage (tail) of early failures. This applies to the NOR flash memory chips storing all the firmware/OS and car settings as it is for the DRAM embedded or not onto the CPUs and the CPUs themselves. The chip shortage is affecting the entire semiconductor industry, not just advanced technologies. Given the current state of the affairs and how long it takes to ramp up the entire supply chain, the consensus is that we will not be out of the shortage situation for roughly another year as it is taking time to build out capacities to catch up to the new demand level. The shortage has been driven by both COVID and increased silicon content in various applications (one of them is automotive and the EV boom) driving a surge in demand while the supply chain is facing intermittent interruption due to COVID cases in various factories.
I didn't really think i was getting political. As for false information, admittedly i don't pretend to be a expert on chip manufacturing and world supply chain.

While auto chips may not be advanced, chip makers have a certain production output capacity. If one has to split resources/output from advance chips and lesser ones...bc of demand and shortages...it would still be a issue due to only 2 manufactures in the world. Wouldn't that be a correct assumption?

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
The new PHEV components aren’t specifically affected by the chip shortages, but parts used in every car are. If it’s not possible to build cars in the first place, new releases are going to be delayed. Just so happens that the C40 is ramping up and more (/all) resources are being placed towards that.

Essentially yes about the T5 ICE. Although it would be extra special if twin charged + new ERAD was an option, I guess they felt that the increased kW output was enough to remove it, get better economy/cost and still have an overall increase to promote
Thanks for the info. Any news on if the onboard charger will be updated with the bigger battery? Same charging speed with a 60% bigger battery will mean some pretty long charge times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Thanks for the info. Any news on if the onboard charger will be updated with the bigger battery? Same charging speed with a 60% bigger battery will mean some pretty long charge times.
None yet and probably won't be I'm guessing, at least for this round - but who knows for the next? (Who would've thought the battery would be bumped up this much on the last year or two of the SPA?! You go Volvo!) It seems like the announcement covered so many different propulsion & charging topics that it would be highly unlikely to leave out this, aka "Hey peeps, we forgot to mention we upgraded the charger. My bad!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: rpm92109

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,047 Posts
Really good question. I think they must.
Since they've added 60% to battery capacity, perhaps charger will increase from 16 to 24 amps, to keep charging time roughly the same? Or 32 amps to make it demonstrably faster? And/or maybe we'll see a faster-charging option?

For quick comparison, re: RAV4 Prime:

"RAV4 Prime's battery can be fully charged in about 12 hours by plugging the included charging cable into a standard household outlet (120V 12A). When using a public charging station (240V), RAV4 Prime can be fully charged in as little as 4 hours and 30 minutes (16A), or 2 hours and 30 minutes with the available 6.6 kW onboard charger on Prime XSE (32A)."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
Since they've added 60% to battery capacity, perhaps charger will increase from 16 to 24 amps, to keep charging time roughly the same? Or 32 amps to make it demonstrably faster? And/or maybe we'll see a faster-charging option?
16A/10A/6A (230V) : 5 / 10 / 13 hours
 
121 - 140 of 175 Posts
Top