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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Budget tyres that punch way above their weight

Hi all,

Yesterday I replaced all four of my Continental ContiSportContact 5p's (235/40r18) tyres with Apollo Aspire 4g's (245/40r18). I must say I was pleasantly surprised and wowed by their performance. One of the biggest dissatisfaction I had with my car (2013 S60 T5 FWD) is with its handling. i.e the drama it pulls (torque steer and no traction) whenever I floor the gas from standstill. I am now happy to report that those problems are things of the past. I particularly bought those super-soft super-sport Conti's to solve these 2 big problems for me 2 years ago, but compared to what I have now, the drama with the steering and traction is as good as gone (more than 100% improvement).

I am no tyre or driving expert but judging from how stable my steering is now under full throttle from standstill, I am guessing there is little to no shape deformation of these Apollo tyres to cause the steering instability. Mind you I am comparing this to a tyre that is in the big leagues (best in the business), right there with the likes of Michelin pilot sport series of tyres (which cost more than double the Apollos).

Obviously I had the tyres for 2 days now and covered under 100 km with them, so I can't say much about their longevity, how they perform in the wet, etc. But for me they solved the problem of the century as far as my concerns were at. They take the beating of the 177 kw & 320 Nm on the chin and if I take the reviews of "http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk", they will take this beating for 50000km and more.

I know a lot of people who are in the market for cars like ours will most likely be tyre snobs, I know I am:D, but I had to move from premium segment of tyres because I can't justify their money for less than 20000 km tread life. However, I think here (with the Apollos) I am getting the service/performance I would have paid big money for and not to mention the manufacture 2 year warranty I got as well.

I am writing this review (if one may so:D;) )not to steer people away from premium brands, but rather to give a possible option to folks who are equally dissatisfied with torque steer and traction when launching the car in full attack mode, I know there should be plenty of us;):)
 

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I think ill take a half step down with my next set of tyres and go to the Michelin Sport 4 (not 4s or super sport)

I love my Super Sports and as you mentioned, a good set of tyres can remove or limit the amount of torque steer. Even the stock Bridgestone RE007 did a good job of this (at the same price as the PSS). But its a lot to spend on tyres for a daily driver.
 

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I don't doubt your claim, and I have in the past also been impressed with "no name" brand tyres (although they didn't last long), but is it possible that the extra width has got something to do with the extra grip? My 10mm spacers on the front made a huge impact on traction.
 

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Thanks
I’m not sure I can give up my Conti ecs. However I’m interested in your view please keep give feedback.
 

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I know it's a completely different set of driving conditions, but I remain amazed that 50,000km is considered a long tire life. That's only about 31,000 miles, which is what the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus tires on my P80 have on them right now and they're not even halfway worn yet. I can reasonably expect another 40,000 to 50,000 miles before they need replacing which would put their total life at 70,000 to 80,000 miles (112,000 to 128,000 km). They're not the ultimate in dry weather traction, but they've been exceptional in rain and they're pleasantly quiet.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can't see myself putting tires on a daily driver unless they were expected to last at least 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
 

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I know it's a completely different set of driving conditions, but I remain amazed that 50,000km is considered a long tire life. That's only about 31,000 miles, which is what the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus tires on my P80 have on them right now and they're not even halfway worn yet. I can reasonably expect another 40,000 to 50,000 miles before they need replacing which would put their total life at 70,000 to 80,000 miles (112,000 to 128,000 km). They're not the ultimate in dry weather traction, but they've been exceptional in rain and they're pleasantly quiet.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can't see myself putting tires on a daily driver unless they were expected to last at least 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
So much this. I keep harping on how much I like my G-MAX AS-05 tires. They're at nearly 30k miles and three are still over 8/32". The other remaining one was replaced due to puncture two months ago but I was able to be slotted in with no issue due to the other tired still being within that 2/32" window.
 

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I know it's a completely different set of driving conditions, but I remain amazed that 50,000km is considered a long tire life. That's only about 31,000 miles, which is what the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus tires on my P80 have on them right now and they're not even halfway worn yet. I can reasonably expect another 40,000 to 50,000 miles before they need replacing which would put their total life at 70,000 to 80,000 miles (112,000 to 128,000 km). They're not the ultimate in dry weather traction, but they've been exceptional in rain and they're pleasantly quiet.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can't see myself putting tires on a daily driver unless they were expected to last at least 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
Thanks for the heads-up on these. I was looking at another Bridgestone model. I got good life >50k from the OEM Michelin Primacy's but decided to switch to Michelin Premier when I replaced those. Although rated for 60k miles I'm at around 25k and two are already at the wear indicators! They were good tires, performance wise, but a huge waste of money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I don't doubt your claim, and I have in the past also been impressed with "no name" brand tyres (although they didn't last long), but is it possible that the extra width has got something to do with the extra grip? My 10mm spacers on the front made a huge impact on traction.
Yes, the extra width definitely has an impact, I totally agree with that. I once used the 245/40s before and they gripped well I must be honest. The issue with those tyres (they were cheap Chinese brand) the sidewalls flexed so much that it was really unsafe to launch the car from rest. I had to replace them within two months of owning because they were hard compound tyres and they did tremulously bad in slippery/wet conditions.

There is something about the structural construction of the Apollos that minimizes the flexing of these tyres under maximum acceleration in a straight line. It totally changed my driving experience now. I used to embrace myself to catch a twitchy steering and now there is just nothing like that. Obviously it will take a while for me to change my cautious driving habit (old habits take time to fade) and I can't completely trust the steering won't catch me off guard just yet, but from the couple full throttle tests I've done, it seems this stability is here to stay (or at least I i'll get some kind of warning that things are starting to deteriorate) and my car can't overcome them (reach their limit) .:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I know it's a completely different set of driving conditions, but I remain amazed that 50,000km is considered a long tire life. That's only about 31,000 miles, which is what the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus tires on my P80 have on them right now and they're not even halfway worn yet. I can reasonably expect another 40,000 to 50,000 miles before they need replacing which would put their total life at 70,000 to 80,000 miles (112,000 to 128,000 km). They're not the ultimate in dry weather traction, but they've been exceptional in rain and they're pleasantly quiet.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can't see myself putting tires on a daily driver unless they were expected to last at least 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
Down here in hotter climates (South Africa, maybe Australia and other southern hemisphere countries) I believe we only get summer tyres, and if its a UHP tyre its treadwear rating will most like be 280.

There is this thread I have started (link below) a while back about the mileage I got from my Contis and someone shed some light on summer UHP tyres treadwear rating, they are inherently fast wearing tyres. For long mileage maybe one may look out for "eco" tyres, but I am guessing they too will open their own fresh can of worms :).

https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?597077-Tires-going-bald-after-18000km&highlight=18000km


I guess now I have implemented the solution I've envisaged then.
 

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I will add my stone to this edifice
-Michelin Premier: worst ever tires. Yes, you will have them for ever but the traction side was the worst idea
-Conti: I have them on my V60, and same than Janico: always looking for traction (nightmare uphill).

Anyway, I will go with either Michelin Sport 4 (summer) or the Kumho Ecsta P91 (my friend do race track with them and they are so/so with the Michelin PS4 (which are 50% more expensive))

Winter: I have no idea and I should look for this winter. any recommendation?
 

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Just my experience, but budget tires don’t show their “faults” until they start to wear. Then the ugliness appears - generally high levels of road noise and rapid loss of wet traction.

Either way, you shouldn’t have to worry about that for a while!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I know it's a completely different set of driving conditions, but I remain amazed that 50,000km is considered a long tire life. That's only about 31,000 miles, which is what the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus tires on my P80 have on them right now and they're not even halfway worn yet. I can reasonably expect another 40,000 to 50,000 miles before they need replacing which would put their total life at 70,000 to 80,000 miles (112,000 to 128,000 km). They're not the ultimate in dry weather traction, but they've been exceptional in rain and they're pleasantly quiet.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I can't see myself putting tires on a daily driver unless they were expected to last at least 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
Thanks for the heads-up on these. I was looking at another Bridgestone model. I got good life >50k from the OEM Michelin Primacy's but decided to switch to Michelin Premier when I replaced those. Although rated for 60k miles I'm at around 25k and two are already at the wear indicators! They were good tires, performance wise, but a huge waste of money.
I've had really good luck with Bridgestone's Turanza line; in my experience they strike a very good balance between noise, comfort, bad weather traction, and performance for the "daily driver" segment. I wouldn't put them on my weekend/DE car but that's an entirely different use case. 😄
 

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As a former SCCA, then IMSA competitor (1969-1981), I was always somewhat of a "tire snob", looking for the longest-wearing performance tire I could find for my street rides. I'm now 67, and while reflexes might slow a bit, driving skill knowledge is still there. BUT, the reality of everyday driving in a street car (assuming you're not a scofflaw moron) really doesn't need that "Nth degree" of performance that I thought I'd need/want in an emergency. How often do those emergencies occur? If you're lucky, never, so do you pay an exorbitant price for high-performance tires in anticipation of something that's likely not to ever happen? When I stopped higher level competing, I did autocrosses and had a separate set of light alloy rims with shaved tires for that purpose. Nowadays, I don't even do that, but I still enjoy things like driving the Tail. Anyway, my 2013 C30 had Michelin Pilot-Sport tires on it, and I liked them just fine, although I never realized how noisy they were until I replaced them! I recently had to replace them, so I was going to just go with them again, until I heard the price - over $750 for the set, installed! I looked at a number of similar tires from other manufacturers, but couldn't get any real-life experience reviews on most of them.

So, one day I'm talking to another gearhead friend, who recently began a new career working for a chain tire store (Mavis Discount Tire), and we were in agreement about wasting money on tire performance you might never use on the street. He mentioned an in-house tire brand I had never heard of, called Rydanz, specifically the Rydanz Roadster tire. There were some positive customer reviews online, but you never know how reliable those are, or even if they're real! Anyway, they came with a 50,000 warranty and the total cost, out the door, was only $271 for all four! For those who are math-challenged, that's ONE THIRD the price of the Michelins! I've only had them for 1000 miles, so the jury is still out, but already they are much quieter than the Michelins were, and I recently went out to our mall's back parking lot and vigorously exercised the C30 and the performance feels fine to me. I have yet to do that same exercise in the wet, so that verdict will have to wait, as will evidence of the longevity. I will be "rotating," front to back, every 5000 miles, as I've always done on FWD cars, which Mavis has agreed to do for free for the life of the tires. NO, I don't work for Mavis or Rydanz, and they haven't paid me to post this (I read online that you can also get Rydanz tires at WalMart). I just wanted to put it out there that most people might just be wasting money for performance they'll never use. I know I was doing that for years!
 

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For me it's less about paying for performance but paying for long-term comfort. I have used several "cheaper" brands (Kumho, Yokohama) and they got loud and hard very fast. I paid a bit more for my current Pirellis (summer) and Michelins (winter), but they still feel and sound like new. Nothing worse than tossing tires with usable tread because you can't hear yourself think! Just my $.02 and experience when it comes to budget tires.
 

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I can't wait until the Pirellis on my V60 wear out. 8000 miles on the front two and they are loud and feathered. I'll be picking up four Nokian ZLine A/S for a fraction of the price ($125 each), and far less noise. Paying $300 for one tire is lunacy for a vehicle that sees nothing but commuting, soccer practice and the occasional road trip.
 

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... wasting money for performance they'll never use. I know I was doing that for years!
But you never know you didn't need to use the performance until after the fact - the difference between stopping six inches before you hit rather than six inches after will make the $500 saving seem quite insignificant
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As a former SCCA, then IMSA competitor (1969-1981), I was always somewhat of a "tire snob", looking for the longest-wearing performance tire I could find for my street rides. I'm now 67, and while reflexes might slow a bit, driving skill knowledge is still there. BUT, the reality of everyday driving in a street car (assuming you're not a scofflaw moron) really doesn't need that "Nth degree" of performance that I thought I'd need/want in an emergency. How often do those emergencies occur? If you're lucky, never, so do you pay an exorbitant price for high-performance tires in anticipation of something that's likely not to ever happen? When I stopped higher level competing, I did autocrosses and had a separate set of light alloy rims with shaved tires for that purpose. Nowadays, I don't even do that, but I still enjoy things like driving the Tail. Anyway, my 2013 C30 had Michelin Pilot-Sport tires on it, and I liked them just fine, although I never realized how noisy they were until I replaced them! I recently had to replace them, so I was going to just go with them again, until I heard the price - over $750 for the set, installed! I looked at a number of similar tires from other manufacturers, but couldn't get any real-life experience reviews on most of them.

So, one day I'm talking to another gearhead friend, who recently began a new career working for a chain tire store (Mavis Discount Tire), and we were in agreement about wasting money on tire performance you might never use on the street. He mentioned an in-house tire brand I had never heard of, called Rydanz, specifically the Rydanz Roadster tire. There were some positive customer reviews online, but you never know how reliable those are, or even if they're real! Anyway, they came with a 50,000 warranty and the total cost, out the door, was only $271 for all four! For those who are math-challenged, that's ONE THIRD the price of the Michelins! I've only had them for 1000 miles, so the jury is still out, but already they are much quieter than the Michelins were, and I recently went out to our mall's back parking lot and vigorously exercised the C30 and the performance feels fine to me. I have yet to do that same exercise in the wet, so that verdict will have to wait, as will evidence of the longevity. I will be "rotating," front to back, every 5000 miles, as I've always done on FWD cars, which Mavis has agreed to do for free for the life of the tires. NO, I don't work for Mavis or Rydanz, and they haven't paid me to post this (I read online that you can also get Rydanz tires at WalMart). I just wanted to put it out there that most people might just be wasting money for performance they'll never use. I know I was doing that for years!
But you never know you didn't need to use the performance until after the fact - the difference between stopping six inches before you hit rather than six inches after will make the $500 saving seem quite insignificant
With the Appolo aspire 4g's I have on, the stopping distance has improved, and I don't get the ABS intrusion for over 90% of scenarios that it interfered with the super soft/sporty continental sport contact 5p's. I am not sure if the Apollo's are that much better or if the extra 10mm width and 4 mm height (they are 245/40r18 from the contis 235/40r18) did more for them than the sticky contis could ever achieve.

I must confess, the only unpremium thing I've experienced so far it's the vibration at around 100km/h after fitting them, I have rebalanced the wheels and vibration seems it's gone so far. I have done 900 km with these Appolo's so far and I'm very satisfied with my purchase.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk
 

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But you never know you didn't need to use the performance until after the fact - the difference between stopping six inches before you hit rather than six inches after will make the $500 saving seem quite insignificant
Great point. I want my S60 RD's handling to be sharp, stopping distance to be short, and road noise to be minimal. My car's good handling and stopping helped save me from a crash a year ago. Cheap tires are always a compromise. They wear in odd ways, make noise after break-in, tramline, lose grip unpredictably in certain conditions...it's always something. The manufacturer was able to make them cheap for a reason, and you aren't necessarily informed of that reason when you purchase them.

They weren't cheap ($880 for the set installed), but my new Michelin Pilot Alpins have already impressed me. I'll switch to some grippy summer tires next spring and continue to know that I am the only weak link in this car. If I do my part, I'll have many safe, fun drives.
 
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